Violence

[Juk]

Yesterday, we talking about the thing happened in Baltimore at school. They asked if violence or peaceful protest should be used. I said violence. Then my teacher started to grill me on how violence was not the answer, and that peace should be used, yeah yeah yeah...
But I ask you this: when has peaceful anything brought any results? You could mention the march on Washington or whatever it was. But that was because segregation was a major issue, and it violated basic human rights. Segregation was bound to be removed anyway.
Almost every country was brought about through violence.
Even God used violence, and Yahweh seemed to be a pretty big fan of it. I've never seen Jesus condemn violence as a whole.

After I heard what type of violence the rioters were using, though, I was disgusted. I am an advocate of organized violence. When I said violence, I was talking about picking up the sword, and the shield, and getting on the horse, and going to war. I like the ancient wars, because I believe those too more skill to win.
But anyway, what do you think about violence?

P.S. I don't believe that violence is always the answer, but it is a lot of times. I understand the risks, such as ruining relationships, I injuries, and death, but I stand by my case.

 

[eric m williams]

There are people who willl only respond to or be stopped by physical violence. That is an observable fact and one born out through scripture. In many cases it is because physical violence is the only form of power they have ever experienced and can therefore understand.
Violence against the body is the cornerstone of surgical medicine. It is where the power of a government lies (in the eyes of most). It is even a required part of building things.
If the violence has a direct purpose and is limited to the achievement of that purpose, then it is a tool and one that should be used as sparingly as possible.

As to your comment about skill...
When I was younger, a friend's dad (a Vietnam vet) that I had great respect for told me something profoundly true... "It takes no skill to kill and it doesn't matter what weapons you use".
I took those words to heart and, even though I have never taken a human life, have since learned how right he was. The skill comes in avoiding conflict or in doing as little harm as possible if conflict can not be avoided.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

Organized violence? Like the Government or the Mafia?

 

[Glomung]

Any idiot can kill. Any idiot can loot and burn. At the end of the day, violence and destruction leaves everybody with less than what they started with and genrally accomplishes nothing of value. The saddest part of it all is that it is very often those that had nothing to do with the conflict that are hurt the most.
An example, during the Middle Ages the Continentals praised the British for being able to have a war without murdering all the peasants.

Gandhi was a pro at non-violent resistance. Just don't cooperate with the oppressors. Don't go to work, don't buy, don't pay taxes, and if enough people follow suit the system collapses under it's own weight.

 

[HisManySongs]

But I ask you this: when has peaceful anything brought any results?

I seem to recall a carpenter who led a peaceful movement starting around 2000 years ago.

Proved to be quite a world changer.

 

[eric m williams]

I seem to recall a carpenter who led a peaceful movement starting around 2000 years ago.
Proved to be quite a world changer.

As I recall the change was met and is still being met by extreme violence across the world...and His return will be marked by extreme violence.

Even aside from that persecution is one thing that He promised us in this world. Our faith is an issue of war and spiritual war has consequences that far exceed the physical ones.

 

[Where is the Messiah]

Interesting post..

After I heard what type of violence the rioters were using, though, I was disgusted. I am an advocate of organized violence.

Can you elaborate on this part? You are an advocate of organized violence, but if it's unorganized you're disgusted?

I would think violence is violence. Are you saying that if the violence is not planned out it's disgusting?

I think a premeditated murder will get a longer prison sentence compared to an unplanned one.

So, if a man catches his wife cheating, and in the heat of the moment kills the guy his wife is cheating with, would you say that's worse than him not killing right then, but instead planning it out for a year, and then killing the guy?

Again, interesting subject and thanks for sharing.

 

[Klub]

There is a time and place for violence, however, it is incredibly rare and should be a last resort.

To say that violence is the only way to get anything done is backwards, normally, all violence does is segregate the two opposing parties even further. Whoever loses the violent altercation now must submit to the winning authority, and potentially start a later violent uprising when they feel strong enough.
Martin Luther King is a good example of getting stuff done without violent acts, and as messed up as it is, the gay rights movement is doing astonishingly well for themselves without any violence.

If we go through Acts, and the early church history, we see Christians constantly having their lives violated. Children were burned, men were devoured by lions and women were raped and murdered, yet, we never see a christian rebellion in the history. Even though they were being murdered, they still proclaimed the gospel and stood firm in the faith instead of taking up swords and murdering the government officials.

Not to say there isn't a time for violence, because there is. However, many times throughout the bible, it is reserved for God. Again, violence is not necessarily a sin, but the love of violence, violence that is not honoring to God is.

 

[Juk]

Interesting post..

Can you elaborate on this part? You are an advocate of organized violence, but if it's unorganized you're disgusted?

I would think violence is violence. Are you saying that if the violence is not planned out it's disgusting?

I think a premeditated murder will get a longer prison sentence compared to an unplanned one.

So, if a man catches his wife cheating, and in the heat of the moment kills the guy his wife is cheating with, would you say that's worse than him not killing right then, but instead planning it out for a year, and then killing the guy?

Again, interesting subject and thanks for sharing.

Heh, yeah, I knew there were some holes here. I forgot some things that I wanted to say. If someone is to be violent, they should never violate the Word of God. I was talking about war, and the ancient one (the legit kind). I think murder is disgusting as well. I hate seeing violence without cause.

 

[Juk]

I seem to recall a carpenter who led a peaceful movement starting around 2000 years ago.

Proved to be quite a world changer.

He was God though. I believe that God is usually an exception to many things. And don't forget that Jesus used violence sometimes as well.

 

[Juk]

There are people who willl only respond to or be stopped by physical violence. That is an observable fact and one born out through scripture. In many cases it is because physical violence is the only form of power they have ever experienced and can therefore understand.
Violence against the body is the cornerstone of surgical medicine. It is where the power of a government lies (in the eyes of most). It is even a required part of building things.
If the violence has a direct purpose and is limited to the achievement of that purpose, then it is a tool and one that should be used as sparingly as possible.

As to your comment about skill...
When I was younger, a friend's dad (a Vietnam vet) that I had great respect for told me something profoundly true... "It takes no skill to kill and it doesn't matter what weapons you use".
I took those words to heart and, even though I have never taken a human life, have since learned how right he was. The skill comes in avoiding conflict or in doing as little harm as possible if conflict can not be avoided.

I agree with most of your post. But about the last paragraph. I believe that those are two different types of skill. Avoiding the conflict takes self-control, a spiritual gift. And the use of a weapon requires earthly skill.