What is the Scriptural Definition of Evil?

[Major]

My concern is one of agreement. Humanity must agree with God as to the definition of evil otherwise we are at an impasse. For example, since God accuses humanity of being evil in our hearts from birth, we have a choice to make. We can:

1) Accept the accusation and beg forgiveness
2) Feign acceptance of the accusation in the hopes of receiving mercy
3) Reject the accusation and damn ourselves

God sees into our hearts so option 2 is essentially the same as option 3, leaving only option 1. Yet how can we accept the accusation that we are evil? I don't see myself as evil. I don't harm others and I try to help when I can. I obey the laws of society. I see myself as moral. Yet this is not enough and in the end will be for naught. I believe that God is good yet I also believe I am good. The problem is that God disagrees with me. You see the problem here?

But you see, right there is the conundrum............there is NO problem, God is right and you are wrong.

 

[Major]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but no, He doesn’t need our approval.

He needs us to obey Him and His commandments and the teachings of His son Jesus Christ.

There is no impasse, I am afraid my friend that He holds all the cards here.

Yep. Agreed.

 

[Major]

You are correct and it was not my intention to imply God needs anything.


But there is an impasse, and it is with us. Until we accept the accusation that we are evil in our hearts from birth, we will continue to resist God. As long as we resist God, we will be unable to obey him and truly accept his son.

We are like defendants in court who plead not-guilty and attempt to defend ourselves. That will never work since, as you say, God holds all the cards. Our only choice is to plead guilty and throw ourselves at the mercy of the court. But unlike a human judge who may be convinced by our outward show of contrition, God sees into our hearts and knows if we are truly contrite or merely pretending, which brings me back to my point #1: we must truly believe in our hearts that we are evil. We must accept that accusation as true. But who among us can do that?

Yes. You are agreeing with the Calvinist approach of Total Depravity!

 

[LearningToLetGo]

But you see, right there is the conundrum............there is NO problem, God is right and you are wrong.

I know... This is why I often wonder about salvation. God, seeing into my heart, knows that I want to accept his judgement of me but also that I reject it at the same time. This is a horrible place to be.

Yes. You are agreeing with the Calvinist approach of Total Depravity!

I did not know that. Perhaps I should read up on Calvin a bit more. Or perhaps not, since it might just depress me.

 

[Major]

I know... This is why I often wonder about salvation. God, seeing into my heart, knows that I want to accept his judgement of me but also that I reject it at the same time. This is a horrible place to be.


I did not know that. Perhaps I should read up on Calvin a bit more. Or perhaps not, since it might just depress me.

Brother, if there is ONE thing in this world that you do NOT need to wonder about....it is the plan of salvation! YOU have accepted His judgment my dear brother! Jesus paid what YOU owed! What you got was the mercy of God because you did not get what you deserve!

There is really nothing wrong with Calvinism IMHO except the idea of evangelizing! LIMITED ATONEMENT is the problem.

TULIP is the synonym for the Calvinism teaching.

"T" = Total Depravity - As a result of Adam’s fall, the entire human race is affected; all humanity is dead in trespasses and sins. M

"U" = Unconditional Election - Because man is dead in sin, therefore, in eternity past God elected certain people to salvation.

***"L" = Limited Atonement - Because God determined that certain ones should be saved as a result of God’s unconditional election, He determined that Christ should die for the elect alone.

"I" = Irresistible Grace - Those whom God elected He draws to Himself through irresistible grace.

"P" = Perseverance of the Saints - The precise ones God has elected and drawn to Himself through the Holy Spirit will persevere in faith.

***Limited Atonement, however, many if not most four-point Calvinists believe that atonement is unlimited, arguing that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, not just for the sins of the elect.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

Brother, if there is ONE thing in this world that you do NOT need to wonder about....it is the plan of salvation! YOU have accepted His judgment my dear brother! Jesus paid what YOU owed! What you got was the mercy of God because you did not get what you deserve!

Thank you for your kind words.

I don't want to make this a TULIP thread since that's one of the verboten subjects, but I appreciate the information.

 

[Big Moose]

You are correct and it was not my intention to imply God needs anything.


But there is an impasse, and it is with us. Until we accept the accusation that we are evil in our hearts from birth, we will continue to resist God. As long as we resist God, we will be unable to obey him and truly accept his son.

We are like defendants in court who plead not-guilty and attempt to defend ourselves. That will never work since, as you say, God holds all the cards. Our only choice is to plead guilty and throw ourselves at the mercy of the court. But unlike a human judge who may be convinced by our outward show of contrition, God sees into our hearts and knows if we are truly contrite or merely pretending, which brings me back to my point #1: we must truly believe in our hearts that we are evil. We must accept that accusation as true. But who among us can do that?

The definition of evil is not something that can be concisely printed in one or two sentences or verses in the Bible. The intent of your heart plays a big part. We are ingrained in our flesh by sin, which is why evil comes from our heart, desires and such. What God creates is not evil by design. But humans, and angels, have shown the proclivity to twist what God has made into evil, and therefore God can say that He created evil since He created the possibility to cause evil. His intent was not for evil, yet He knew evil could spring forth.

A knife is not evil. It is a tool that can be used for good or evil. Peanut butter is not evil. Yet if you feed it to a child who you know is allergic to it, that would be evil. If you feed peanut butter to a child who is allergic to it without knowing they are allergic, that is not evil, yet a bad result can happen. The same can be said for what we speak to others. We may have good intentions speaking in love for the person, yet it can be taken the wrong way and hurt can result. Some think they are speaking or acting from a place of love but in reality they are speaking or acting from their desire to fix the other person or show them how to live the right way. When we are honest with ourselves, we will find that we end up like Paul did in Romans 7:

5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.
6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet."
8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead.
9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.
12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.
13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do.
16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good.
17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.
20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.
22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

We truly have to renew our minds daily, resetting our mindset to the Spirit of God since we are tied to our sinful flesh in this world. Paul saw that he strove to do good, yet evil often sprang from his intent. Romans 7 is incredibly difficult for me to wrap my head around but it does clearly spell out the conundrum we face as depraved humans, and why we need Jesus.

 

[Major]

The definition of evil is not something that can be concisely printed in one or two sentences or verses in the Bible. The intent of your heart plays a big part. We are ingrained in our flesh by sin, which is why evil comes from our heart, desires and such. What God creates is not evil by design. But humans, and angels, have shown the proclivity to twist what God has made into evil, and therefore God can say that He created evil since He created the possibility to cause evil. His intent was not for evil, yet He knew evil could spring forth.

A knife is not evil. It is a tool that can be used for good or evil. Peanut butter is not evil. Yet if you feed it to a child who you know is allergic to it, that would be evil. If you feed peanut butter to a child who is allergic to it without knowing they are allergic, that is not evil, yet a bad result can happen. The same can be said for what we speak to others. We may have good intentions speaking in love for the person, yet it can be taken the wrong way and hurt can result. Some think they are speaking or acting from a place of love but in reality they are speaking or acting from their desire to fix the other person or show them how to live the right way. When we are honest with ourselves, we will find that we end up like Paul did in Romans 7:

5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.
6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet."
8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead.
9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.
12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.
13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do.
16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good.
17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.
20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.
22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

We truly have to renew our minds daily, resetting our mindset to the Spirit of God since we are tied to our sinful flesh in this world. Paul saw that he strove to do good, yet evil often sprang from his intent. Romans 7 is incredibly difficult for me to wrap my head around but it does clearly spell out the conundrum we face as depraved humans, and why we need Jesus.

You said..........
"A knife is not evil. It is a tool that can be used for good or evil. Peanut butter is not evil. Yet if you feed it to a child who you know is allergic to it, that would be evil. "

Moose.......you are right on! you may not have realized it, but that is THE reason behind the gun control argument.

Guns do not kill people..........PEOPLE kill people and it begins in the heart not the trigger finger.

 

[Major]

Thank you for your kind words.

I don't want to make this a TULIP thread since that's one of the verboten subjects, but I appreciate the information.

That kind of information can easily be thanked for by a LOVE offering texted to BR549 ATTN: Jr. Samples.

 

[Major]

That kind of information can easily be thanked for by a LOVE offering texted to BR549 ATTN: Jr. Samples.

It is an inside personal joke!!!!! Ask Musicmaster who Jr. is.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

Personally, I don't consider natural calamity to be "evil". Thus, no act of God is evil. Tsunamis, earthquakes, tornadoes, floods -- nope, not evil.

A prerequisite to evil is the conscious and willful desire to cause gratuitous harm and suffering to another. Colloquially we refer to many things as evil in that they cause harm to others, but that's merely linguistic short cutting.