the more people who come to worship God the better! Waht bothers me is all the little churches that are doing little.
the more people who come to worship God the better! Waht bothers me is all the little churches that are doing little.
We are a little Church...trying to reach our community....some days I want to shake the dust off my sandals and move on. We have poor and we have very little rich, with an extremely small middle class & middle aged population, lots of 'seniors' retired and on disability. Should I abandon my little Church for the big ones of grandeur 45 minutes away? I am on the brink of not being able to pay my bills-might as well follow the money trail to the cities or out of this state.....
Don't these people need an example too? Little Churches can do a lot-if the people in them are doing the work of the Lord. Same goes with 'mega' churches. Not everybody can afford to spend $50 a week in gas to drive to the city. I can't....
The real problem is the fragmentation of the Body of Christ following 'winds of doctrine'. No wonder we are failing-we can't even agree on the doctrine of Salvation.
I go to two mega churches. They are incredibly common out here. There are hundreds of people saved a day at these churches and the pastors are pretty amazing. I used to think the same thing until my unbelieving friends came one time and now want to go every Sunday. Clearly God is working in those churches. Or at least the one in particular I'm talking about. To dig deeper into the word, we have bible study. BTW Dirty, I am doing bible study/community group on Tuesday eve's.
I can understand that.
But it would also be helpful to know that Pentacostal.Holiness churches that beleieve you can lose your salvation make up the majority of mega-churches. That means the people (hundreds) seen weekly at the alter are not really being saved.
They have been saved but believe that they lost their salvation and they are doing in all over again. We have to question whether that is a legitmate claim to salvation or is it simply ......"re-afirming" what has already been done once.
I agree w/ this...it depends on that person's anointing. IMO I think it just depends on how God works through them, he gives some alittle bit to do..and others alot b/c he knows what they can handle, God works through both the big and small church. Just b/c someone has a smaller job doesn't mean their useless and just b/c the anointing on someone is so strong the attract dozens doesn't mean they're fake.
Of course. I believe I mentioned that (whether or not they are actually saved). For me, the process wasn't as swift as I had expected. Yes, I said the prayer and accepted Jesus into my heart, but it took me actually building a relationship with God for me to become confident in my salvation. Do people who say the prayer and accept Christ as their savior immediately become saved each time? We don't know, but probably not. All I know, is that it takes much more than just that. It's a lifetime dedication to Christ. It's not just being a "Sunday Christian". It's not where you can go on willfully sinning. I believe a lot of people in the mega churches probably do not have a deep relationship with God, because from what I can tell, the message is usually watered down. However, these churches do give a great "base" for which one can get started and they also highly recommend community groups (aka bible study) in order to dig deeper. So if someone doesn't just come to church on Sunday, but decides to read the bible and fellowship, I see nothing wrong with the mega churches sending a watered down message to get people started on a beautiful path that leads to salvation.
" I see nothing wrong with the mega churches sending a watered down message to get people started on a beautiful path that leads to salvation".
Are you aware that is exactly what the Scriptures say will be taking place in the time right before Christ returns????
2 Tim. 4:1-4
"I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
No where in the Scriptures does it say that churches are to give out a "watered down" message.
"Preach" here means to HERALD as would the kings men when giving a formal message in an authoritive way.
Preachers are to be consistant and never fear what is said that might hurt someones feelings when it is said. The ministers personal feelings are not the ground for reproof, doctrine alone is that ground.
Because the time will come when men will grow "itching ears". That means they will want to be tickled by preachers who do not preach the Word of God. Many pastors bow to the wishes of the ungodly in their congregation who only want to hear what pleases them because they are there to be entertained, not corrected or even told about their sin.
NO Tinker ......the church whether it is a mega or a mini can not give out a "watered down" gospel.!!!
In fact there is no such thing!!!
I can tell you factually that the preaching of the literal, unapolagetic Word of God will do one of two things.
1. It will push the un-godly, religious church crowd away and to a place where the gospel is in fact watered down. Those people will then settle in their pew, listen, be happy, tickled and do nothing for the cause of Christ.
2. It will draw the real believers who want to get things done for Christ and reach out and save the lost.
I do not know about everyone else, but when I stand before the Lord Jesus Christ, I want HIm to know that I did all I could with the time He gave me and I fulfilled His command...........
"Go ye into all the world and teach all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost".
How about you explain what you mean by "wattered down" so that I can determine if we're on the same page. I think we are talking about different things. The pastor at my mega churches 100% teach the word of God but it doesn't always go as deep as SOME churches can. Most definitely is God being discussed, and of course we use the bible and are given a lesson plan to take notes during service. Also, they have a TON of ministries and a large amt. Of volunteers.
The only thing I don't like about my particular pastor is that he, at times, will go from one part of the bible to another too much (too many various scriptures) but he's simply linking things together. Or the scriptures he uses are very short in nature. He also uses a lot of jokes throughout service and although nice, sometimes it can feel excessive.
Well, it was the word YOU used in comment #27.
"I see nothing wrong with the mega churches sending a watered down message to get people started on a beautiful path that leads to salvation."
To me that meant something less than the truth. Something easy to digest because it sounds good.
When water is added to anything it lessens the strength of the original......correct???
I believe that we are on the same page my dear as it appears that is what you were saying.
Every Pastor has his own unique style of preaching. That is not what I was referring to. I was speaking to the HEART of any sermon which has to be Christ.
If a sermon is given with the text being Exodus 3:4, it MUST be about Christ.
That is what Paul encouraged Timothy to be faithful in doing......."Preach the Word"!!!
Like I said it's hard to discribe. I, as well as others, cobsider his style more "surface level" and he seems to say similar things (I'm starting to notice) each service. Same stories, etc. Then again, we get a lot of new people in there every Sunday and his stories get them coming back. Of course the stories are linked to the bible somehow, some way. It's just a little excessive I would say, at times. Many who go to smaller churches or have gone agree. At the same time isn't there somewhere in the bible which says church will cause division?
Hi Major I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. Would you condemn Luther for causing the largest divisions of the church that I know of in history?
If somehow Lord Jesus Himself could preach in any one of the example churches given above, how much division, strife, discord, etc. do you think it would cause in that church? How many people do you think would be left standing after His constant rebuking, threats of condemnation, conviction of sin, call to repentance, and many, many other hard teachings? Human nature hasn't changed much since then, if anything it's even worse.
I know many christians (lower 'c') that tell me in their self-righteousness; "Jesus wouldn't say that about me". Well He already did, and I imagine those would be the first to go...
So how many would be left standing? The examples in the Scriptures are always a "FEW".
We don't have examples of Lord Jesus telling jokes in the Scriptures, laughing, or even smiling for that matter. However we do know he wept because no one would receive His Word.
Like I've stated previously, people use the term "Serious as a heart attack" when something is really, really serious. My guess is a heart attack would be fun-and-games to how "serious" Jesus is about His Word. It saddens me to think how many christians (lower 'c') will only come to that conclusion when "absent from the body and present with The Lord" and by then it's too late.
We know not everyone goes to church for the same reason, for some it's a family tradition, others it's to feel 'Spiritual'. We know from the Scriptures, the Wheat will always grow with the Weeds, and I believe until the coming of the Kingdom, this will always be the case when we talk about the church.
So is it the job of the Pastor not to offend, tell stories/jokes, and continually teach the "Milk" of the Word to keep the church growing and at peace? Or, evolve in to the "MEAT" of the Scriptures which we know divides but saves.
I believe it's the "MEAT" of the Scriptures that leads to saving Faith and if it never gets taught than what is really the point of that church, mega or otherwise? Superficial teaching, coffee, and fellowship will not save the sinner.
We have no examples in the Scriptures of alter calls, signing a card, or just stumbling in to the Kingdom of Heaven. However, we have Lord Jesus Himself stating one must "AGONIZE" to enter the Kingdom, and it will only be a "FEW" of the "FEW". (Luke 13 23)
One must empty themselves and forsake everything for the Glory of God, it's the hardest thing you will ever have to do. I don't read of anyone having a good time while traveling down that "Narrow" path. Isaiah was sawn in-half, John the Baptist be-headed, Peter crucified upside down, Steven stoned...
So does the Pastor refine by fire and "Agonize" along with his congregation and all the strife and division it will cause for the Glory of God? Or is it coffee, music, and fun and games as long as there is unity, peace, and happiness for everyone?
Apologies no disagreements, the context of your post just wasn't clear or at least not obvious? As written, it could apply to most if not all the Saints in Heaven who were executed NOT for "Going With the Flow", but for causing division and discord.
Look at the example of Steven, the Scriptures tell us the took off their coats. Why? I believe first, they didn't want to get blood on them, and second they didn't want any impediment in letting loose with those stones.
Boy did Steven PO those Jews!
Anyway it's a complex article for the average reader and I suppose if you added some additional paragraphs of the article, the context would have been more clear.
Putting myself in the shoes of the average reader of your post I may come away thinking; "Even though my Pastor teaches heresy, Major says not to stir up strife in the church". Actually even in my own shoes without reading the reference article in its entirety, that's the message I come away with, but I know better but some do not.
As far as Martin Luther, I guess it depends where you are standing. The RCC would consider him a divider and a hieratic to this day, and the fact that at least 20% of Christians are Protestant would say there is a division. Now we could debate Protestants vs. Catholics and which is the true church but that's a completely different topic and I'd like to respect the topic of the OP.