Why Did God Lie?

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workmx

workmx

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In genesis 1:29 it is written:

Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.
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Lie 1.

Because then god says:

but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.
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Lie 2.

Because,

The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”
4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
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Adam and Eve eat from the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and do not die.

This is very puzzling given that the bible also says that god does not lie (Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29; Titus 1:2).
 
Do we not say "you can do anything except..." I think it's the same thing here. I don't consider it a lie to tell someone that something is excluded from "everything."

The death that is being talked about is a spiritual death. A separation from God and expulsion from the Garden. Also, I have heard that Adam and Eve would have physically lived forever in that Garden. Since they were cast out they were no longer allowed to live forever they did die from eating the fruit. Not that day, but they died as a result of it.

So, I think it's a stretch to call either a lie, although I can understand how you would have come to that conclusion.


*edit*
it's 3am and I'm tired so I'm sorry if the post above makes no sense.
 
Very interesting post Workmx! Here's some thoughts I had on it.
The Bible mentions that the wages of sin are death, and refers to it several times in the Bible; sometimes as a spiritual death, and sometimes as a very literal death. It is quite possible that Adam and Eve were immortal before the original sin. The tree of life was also denied them after the fall from grace. The Bible seems to hint that the tree of life would grant eternal life. As a result of their disobedience, they lost access to it, and are dead as we speak. They may not have dropped dead as if struck by lightning or poisoned, but they did die as a result of their actions, both literally and figuratively in a spiritual sense.
 
Huntingteckel said:
Do we not say "you can do anything except..." I think it's the same thing here. I don't consider it a lie to tell someone that something is excluded from "everything."

The death that is being talked about is a spiritual death. A separation from God and expulsion from the Garden. Also, I have heard that Adam and Eve would have physically lived forever in that Garden. Since they were cast out they were no longer allowed to live forever they did die from eating the fruit. Not that day, but they died as a result of it.

So, I think it's a stretch to call either a lie, although I can understand how you would have come to that conclusion.


*edit*
it's 3am and I'm tired so I'm sorry if the post above makes no sense.
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Go to bed. Get some rest.

Spiritual death, I see. The passage does say that humans become like gods. Seems like a spiritual upgrade. Interesting too that the serpent was the honest one.
 
GBWY - That is interesting. You may be right. The other thing that bothers me is that God punishes A&E. But they could not have known that they should not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, until after they ate the fruit.
 
workmx said:
Go to bed. Get some rest.

Spiritual death, I see. The passage does say that humans become like gods. Seems like a spiritual upgrade. Interesting too that the serpent was the honest one.
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The serpent lied with his very first sentence.

Now the serpent was more shrewd than any of the wild animals that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Is it really true that God said, ‘You must not eat from any tree of the orchard’?”

God didn't say they shouldn't eat from ANY tree in the garden. The serpent was already twisting God's word like he always does.

Is it truly an upgrade to be separated from God? To have possibly given up a Neverending physical life right next to God and live a life of hard labor and sin just because you can't obey ONE LAW?
 
Just as an aside. If Adam and Eve had not eaten from the tree (as God had commanded) then presumably we would not have a bible at all. Adam and Eve would remain immortal and the human race would have stopped right there. By that reasoning, I can only conclude that God did want them to eat the forbidden fruit in the first place.
 
Mind you with an omniscience god should not have been surprised by them eating it. And should not have been fooled when they hid. It is as though the god of the bible is not as powerful/knowledgeable/good as some make it out to be.
 
The first was not a lie because they could eat of any tree the one would just have a result from eating of it. While they did not die then they became spiritually dead and from that point they started to die. Science now teaches we start dying from the time we are born they starting dying from the time they ate of the tree.
 
Huntingteckel said:
The serpent lied with his very first sentence.

Now the serpent was more shrewd than any of the wild animals that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Is it really true that God said, ‘You must not eat from any tree of the orchard’?”

God didn't say they shouldn't eat from ANY tree in the garden. The serpent was already twisting God's word like he always does.

Is it truly an upgrade to be separated from God? To have possibly given up a Neverending physical life right next to God and live a life of hard labor and sin just because you can't obey ONE LAW?
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yup, false generalization, that is not being honest....
 
I'm inclined to cut HT some slack. That was posted at around 3am, if memory serves me correctly.
 
This thread is obviously lead by the spirit of satan. He has lied from the beginning saying "You shall surely not die."

Guess what? We die!

Satan has led you to start this thread. By saying God is a liar you deny his word, just like satan.

Doesn't matter if you don't believe, he hides in the shadows and works through deception. He has decieved you the supernatural does not exist, and now he is using you to blaspheme God and not feel guilty.
 
workmx said:
In genesis 1:29 it is written:
Lie 1.
Because then god says:
Lie 2.
Because,
Adam and Eve eat from the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and do not die.

This is very puzzling given that the bible also says that god does not lie (Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29; Titus 1:2).
Click to expand...

You don't believe God fine, that is your choice, but you're exceedingly arrogant to come to a Christian forum and accuse God of lying! If you are really interested in the truth, there are more diplomatic ways of asking to rectify a seeming discrepancy unless you're goal is to rile up people. But that won't get you any respect here and when you're banned, you'll either be pleased or ticked off. The truth has no agenda. Do you believe the truth? How can you tell? Here's the answer to your spiteful question:

2 Peter 3:8 (KJV)
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Genesis 2:17 (KJV)
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Genesis 5:5 (KJV)
And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

930 years old means he died within a "Day" of 1000 years...

The oldest living recorded man was Methuselah and he died at 969 years old and his name means "when he dies it will come" and what came the year he died? The Flood. God is long suffering, but only 8 people were saved.
 
Cosmicwaffle said:
the supernatural does not exist
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IMO, this guy is confused, raised catholic, thought of even being becoming a priest, exposed to abuse by authority.

He mentioned supernatural is unfalsifiable, and yet he is trying to falsify, surely, a sign he is confused or there is unforgiveness within...

IMO, personal observation: mostly likely he just don’t know yet how to forgive….

Forgiveness is not only something we do to other, it is more on something we do to ourselves.
We forgive, whether that person who do wrong to us changes for the better or not…

Why: because it more on something we do to ourselves.

Unforgiving destroys one’s character….

Forgiveness builds up.
 
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workmx said:
Mind you with an omniscience god should not have been surprised by them eating it. And should not have been fooled when they hid. It is as though the god of the bible is not as powerful/knowledgeable/good as some make it out to be.
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I totally understand how you feel dude. God seems to be mysterious and very different from human expectations. I wrestle with the same concerns that you have as well. The reason why I'm a Christian is not because I fully trust God (I don't really trust his benevolence), but because after careful study, I've become thoroughly convinced that a). God is real and b). The Bible has divine qualities that speak for themselves when uncovered.

Do I believe that God is good? I'll be honest I have some serious doubts. I know that's not a very "Christian" answer, so let me explain; Considering that I've become convinced that the God of the Bible is real, I figure that it's fairly irrelevant whether or not God is good, as long as following Him keeps me out of Hell (very self serving of me, I'll admit).

I cannot reasonably prove whether or not God is good, so that part I'll have to take on faith, because either way, he holds my eternal fate in His hands. I hope that God is good, and that his methods surpass my human understanding, but if not I will still secure a place in heaven; and if I get sent to Hell anyways, then I was screwed from the beginning and I can at least say that I tried my best.

The only chance that my story will have a happy ending is if I trust God. I am a Christian because it seems to hold the greatest odds for my eternal survival and comfort. Not exactly a priest's answer I know, but honest at least.
 
We live in a faithless generation. There is far more promised now in this time besides just hoping to avoid hell.

God has never lied or failed anyone who believed And trusted in him. Not one time.

There are many who prayed out of fear and unbelief "if it be thy will oh Lord" that have been crushed and destoyed by the author of fear. None, speaking the word only, unmoved in their confidence in the Lord.
 
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