Your true "Service to God"

[JohnC]

Maybe it's just me... but it seems like we Christians have hyper-spiritualized the idea of "Serving God"... God is opening my eyes to this in new ways....

This is really striking me as I understand more in the Old Testament.... For example.. What was Samson's "Service to God" (such as 400 phillistines with the jawbone of an ass...) ... What was God commanding King Saul to provide as his "service to God" and compare this against Saul equated with "Sacred" (Sacrifice, making vows, and tabernacle things) and what Saul equated with "Profane" (Leading Israel, administering the National Business, going to war, etc.)...

For example.... How often have you heard "Wood hay stubble vs Gold, silver, and precious stones" spoken in the sense of what sort of things you did - where the clear message is that "Church" things are the "Gold, silver, and precious stones" - and the "Secular" things are the "Wood, hay, and stubble".....

But... The ENTIRE EARTH is God's and all that is in it... If the Old Testament teaches us anything - it's that the typical things we associate with "Secular" or "Profane" are in no ways outside of God's purposes....

That means you just simply doing your job as if it was God's thing for you to do for Him IS VALID as bona-fide Service to God... See, I think as Christians - we often ignore that the "Secular" world is not outside of God's purposes.... For example - if you run your business well and succeed - you can provide JOBS which provide significant BLESSING to brothers and sisters in Christ... Perhaps God is giving you that success so that you can provide a "Soft landing" to a fellow Christian who is loosing his job to a layoff... and it's the same when we are the Employee.. If we viewed our day job as an employee as our service to God and not simply a profane/secular act that pays the bills - what would we do? Would we maybe care about the place's success and failure? Would we try to prevent our bosses from doing damaging things that would sabotage the business?

Martin Luther spoke in detail about this sort of thing... That your service to God is not the shoemaker drawing crosses on his shoes - but rather the shoemaker simply making good shoes that would provide blessing those who wore them....

Thanks

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

John Hi,
God Bless you brother for bringing this post to life !!
Something I would like to add to this and NOT take away from what you have written.
God has also been showing me how His people our brethren are so busy doing their own thing in the name of Jesus.

I hear it said once that in prayer God told the pastor he had those He called as shoe salesmen preaching and those He called to preach selling shoes.

People think when they see a need or something that looks good and will prosper then it is a good God thing. Meeting needs is a good thing but not always going to be where or what God has called you to do.

We as Born again Believer need to seek God and find out what it is He wants us to do. If you are called to sell cars then do it under His Lordship or if you are called to sweep the floor of the church then go do it but Grasp one thing - these things are not your source nor do these things dictate what you have in life.

We are to be His Blessing here in this earth. We are to supply in times of need.
God Bless John and remember that you John are Blessed and Highly favored of the Lord
James W

 

[JohnC]

God has also been showing me how His people our brethren are so busy doing their own thing in the name of Jesus.

I hear it said once that in prayer God told the pastor he had those He called as shoe salesmen preaching and those He called to preach selling shoes.

You bring up a really good point... A point that is at the absolute heart of Hebrews 11:4.....
Hebrews 11:4 - Faith.. Following the foundation of evidence to discern the unseen things such as God's plan, God's hand upon things, and God's ways......

So often - we believe that God's purpose for our service to Him must be Evangelism or Bible study or doing Church things..... But we must seek out the ACTUAL EVIDENCE of where God's hand is on our lives in real life.... Sure - I may want to go do street evangelism - but if God is not in it, it simply won't prosper... and in fact - it may hugely backfire and HINDER the actual purposes of God....

As you put it - God's job for YOU may well be to put people in to the RIGHT shoes - which will alleviate back pain and hip pain and leg pain and all sorts of other skeleto-muscular problems..... Putting people into the RIGHT shoes can be a HUGE blessing for them - and that's how God wants you to serve Him.... God has granted you the understanding - and is showing you His mighty hand in selling Shoes.. but WE see it as "Wood, hay, and stubble" ... and so we don't TREAT it as if it's God's place for us....

Compare that to the fellow who grinds away day by day trying to "Do God's Work" in places God hasn't sent him... As such - his only experience with the Mighty Hand of God is when it fails spectacularly.... God is TRYING to send him in a different direction.. and he just won't do it....

It's been a challenge to wrap my head around this - because it's so counter to what we tell ourselves in church....

Thanks

 

[Cturtle]

Maybe it's just me... but it seems like we Christians have hyper-spiritualized the idea of "Serving God"... God is opening my eyes to this in new ways....

This is really striking me as I understand more in the Old Testament.... For example.. What was Samson's "Service to God" (such as 400 phillistines with the jawbone of an ass...) ... What was God commanding King Saul to provide as his "service to God" and compare this against Saul equated with "Sacred" (Sacrifice, making vows, and tabernacle things) and what Saul equated with "Profane" (Leading Israel, administering the National Business, going to war, etc.)...

For example.... How often have you heard "Wood hay stubble vs Gold, silver, and precious stones" spoken in the sense of what sort of things you did - where the clear message is that "Church" things are the "Gold, silver, and precious stones" - and the "Secular" things are the "Wood, hay, and stubble".....

But... The ENTIRE EARTH is God's and all that is in it... If the Old Testament teaches us anything - it's that the typical things we associate with "Secular" or "Profane" are in no ways outside of God's purposes....

That means you just simply doing your job as if it was God's thing for you to do for Him IS VALID as bona-fide Service to God... See, I think as Christians - we often ignore that the "Secular" world is not outside of God's purposes.... For example - if you run your business well and succeed - you can provide JOBS which provide significant BLESSING to brothers and sisters in Christ... Perhaps God is giving you that success so that you can provide a "Soft landing" to a fellow Christian who is loosing his job to a layoff... and it's the same when we are the Employee.. If we viewed our day job as an employee as our service to God and not simply a profane/secular act that pays the bills - what would we do? Would we maybe care about the place's success and failure? Would we try to prevent our bosses from doing damaging things that would sabotage the business?

Martin Luther spoke in detail about this sort of thing... That your service to God is not the shoemaker drawing crosses on his shoes - but rather the shoemaker simply making good shoes that would provide blessing those who wore them....

Thanks

Your post brings to mind the Scripture in Colossians
Col 3:23 — Col 3:24
And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

And also the great commision that God has given to us all. To pray for our employers or employees interceding for them and being a good example. Making our lives a living example of Jesus' love for everyone and His desire for everyone to be saved. One can also pray over the things that they make (shoes for example) that as you said will bless the wearer, but also like a prayer cloth. And twking all of God's principles and ways of doing things into the workplace so that just as Joseph prospered potipher, we can see our employers or employees prosper in every area of their life.

Work like you have said is not only the place that God has given us to pay bills, but is also a place of ministry opportunities. Being very sensitive to the Holy Spirit will enable us to know when and what to say.

Good thread! God bless you with an abundance of grace and peace.

 

[Cturtle]

You bring up a really good point... A point that is at the absolute heart of Hebrews 11:4.....
Hebrews 11:4 - Faith.. Following the foundation of evidence to discern the unseen things such as God's plan, God's hand upon things, and God's ways......

So often - we believe that God's purpose for our service to Him must be Evangelism or Bible study or doing Church things..... But we must seek out the ACTUAL EVIDENCE of where God's hand is on our lives in real life.... Sure - I may want to go do street evangelism - but if God is not in it, it simply won't prosper... and in fact - it may hugely backfire and HINDER the actual purposes of God....

As you put it - God's job for YOU may well be to put people in to the RIGHT shoes - which will alleviate back pain and hip pain and leg pain and all sorts of other skeleto-muscular problems..... Putting people into the RIGHT shoes can be a HUGE blessing for them - and that's how God wants you to serve Him.... God has granted you the understanding - and is showing you His mighty hand in selling Shoes.. but WE see it as "Wood, hay, and stubble" ... and so we don't TREAT it as if it's God's place for us....

Compare that to the fellow who grinds away day by day trying to "Do God's Work" in places God hasn't sent him... As such - his only experience with the Mighty Hand of God is when it fails spectacularly.... God is TRYING to send him in a different direction.. and he just won't do it....

It's been a challenge to wrap my head around this - because it's so counter to what we tell ourselves in church....

Thanks

Hi John,

Can you please go a little more in depth in what you mean by **But we must seek out the ACTUAL EVIDENCE of where God's hand is on our lives in real life....**** are you saying to seek God?

God bless

 

[Siloam]

You know, there were several strong missionaries an preachers in the early church. We read about Paul and Peter, more. But most believers were fishermen, farmers, shepherds, servants of other men, etc. As important as the missionaries and preachers are, it is Christ in the lives of the everyday believer that is prime.

Whether, then, you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God (1 Cor 10:31)

If you are a good worker, and show high ethical standards and do not try to subvert the goals of the organization you may work for (or in), you will be respected as an individual. If those around you know who you serve, your life will be a testament to your Lord.

 

[JohnC]

Can you please go a little more in depth in what you mean by **But we must seek out the ACTUAL EVIDENCE of where God's hand is on our lives in real life....**** are you saying to seek God?

This really hit me out of Hebrews 11:1 when you dig into the greek...

Here's the idea.... You can't reason out what the quality of gold is without any testing... You perform certain physical tests on the gold - and based on the results of those tests - you draw a conclusion of the quality and thus you what you can do with it...

Similarly - you can't directly reason out what God is doing in your life based simply on premises, book learning, logic, and wishful thinking.... You have to observe in real life and make effort to discern the hand of God upon things and then based upon that - you receive confirmation of what God is (or is not) doing and then act accordingly to align yourself...

This testing and evidence over time proves to us that Jesus is faithful and can be trusted (The rock solid proven foundation) .. And though we may not be able to directly know God's plan for us now - we can discern a correct conclusion of what direction God is taking us in by paying attention to the things God is doing and then seeking to align ourselves with Him... Note - this has nothing to do with seeking signs as a proxy, but rather paying attention to the reality of what God is actually doing.... Seeking after signs is a way to skirt the responsibility for discerning what God is doing in the situation at hand - you quit paying attention to the situation at hand and instead divert your attention to something that has nothing to do with anything....

So.. I suppose - yes - that this is probably a long way around saying "Seeking God"

Thanks

 

[Cturtle]

This really hit me out of Hebrews 11:1 when you dig into the greek...

Here's the idea.... You can't reason out what the quality of gold is without any testing... You perform certain physical tests on the gold - and based on the results of those tests - you draw a conclusion of the quality and thus you what you can do with it...

Similarly - you can't directly reason out what God is doing in your life based simply on premises, book learning, logic, and wishful thinking.... You have to observe in real life and make effort to discern the hand of God upon things and then based upon that - you receive confirmation of what God is (or is not) doing and then act accordingly to align yourself...

This testing and evidence over time proves to us that Jesus is faithful and can be trusted (The rock solid proven foundation) .. And though we may not be able to directly know God's plan for us now - we can discern a correct conclusion of what direction God is taking us in by paying attention to the things God is doing and then seeking to align ourselves with Him... Note - this has nothing to do with seeking signs as a proxy, but rather paying attention to the reality of what God is actually doing.... Seeking after signs is a way to skirt the responsibility for discerning what God is doing in the situation at hand - you quit paying attention to the situation at hand and instead divert your attention to something that has nothing to do with anything....

So.. I suppose - yes - that this is probably a long way around saying "Seeking God"

Thanks

Thank you for taking the time to go a bit deeper in depth, it helped me to understand where your thoughts are. I think that you also bring up a very valid point....we are not supposed to be fleece type, or outward signs led. We have the Holy Spirit dwelling within us so we are to be led by the Spirit. For He was sent into the world to take waht Jesus says and show it unto us (John 16:13-15). And if we are paying attention to what He is saying then God will reveal each step of our paths in Him, one at a time or even sometimes to give us a picture, but the steps to achieve that picture are what we have to rely on Him for.

Good post my friend
God bless you abundantly!

 

[Siloam]

Evidence (the locating, the gathering, and the evaluation of evidence) has always been important to me. Alas I am more like the art lover who admires the paintings in a gallery than I am one of the painters, but prayerful observation and reflection can bring my service in accord with His plan.

I have learned that if any of those tasks (locating gathering, evaluating) are not guided by our Lord the result becomes unreliable.

In terms of this thread, our service to our Lord is not in doing what seems right in our estimation, but listening for and following His guidance as we labor at the challenges He has set.

 

[CCW95A]

About 30 years ago I was thinking about joining a certain Church near my house. I went to one of their new member class,s to get more information about what they believe. They passed out papers that had around 30 questions, and at the bottom of the page there was a legend numbering from 1 to 7. Each number represented a ministry with in the Church. We were told to answer each question with a number from 1 to 10. At the end we were to add up all the numbers, divide it by 7, subtract 100, and then times that number by 1.25. Then we were told to take the resulting number and match it to the closet ministry number at the bottom of the page in the legend. This would tell us were God has placed us in the body of Christ!!!
I am more of a simple person, and believe just asking the Lord what he wants you to do is much easier, and less likely to get it wrong. What would happen if you forget to "carry" the one, and wind doing what you are not suppose to?

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Evidence (the locating, the gathering, and the evaluation of evidence) has always been important to me. Alas I am more like the art lover who admires the paintings in a gallery than I am one of the painters, but prayerful observation and reflection can bring my service in accord with His plan.

I have learned that if any of those tasks (locating gathering, evaluating) are not guided by our Lord the result becomes unreliable.

In terms of this thread, our service to our Lord is not in doing what seems right in our estimation, but listening for and following His guidance as we labor at the challenges He has set.

Hi Siloam,
It is a very sad ordeal how far to many of the brethren believe if it gives them goose bumps or chills or excitement and so fourth then it must be God. Nothing could be further from the truth. Then there are those who think if it looks good or seems as a need then it is for them and God will bless it.

All along missing the big picture of Gods plan for them. It is required of us to seek Him and find out what his plan is for us and it hardly ever happens in a few days and so forth. God does have a plan for each and e every one of us and it will always be better then anything we could ever come up with our selves.

It takes discipline to honestly seek God and accept what ever His plan is even if it has nothing to do with what we thought or wanted and to accept this in Joy. Oh well brother I am just harpen at the choir. Lol
God Bless and the avatar is really nice.
James W

 

[KingJ]

See, I think as Christians - we often ignore that the "Secular" world is not outside of God's purposes.... For example - if you run your business well and succeed - you can provide JOBS which provide significant BLESSING to brothers and sisters in Christ... Perhaps God is giving you that success

God gave us brains and hands to be used + God does not want us to be lazy = wealth. God blesses / entrusts with more those who use what gifts they have. So prosperity is very scriptural.

But then so too is modesty and examining ourselves for greed and vanity.

If we look properly at the OT we see that all those prophets that had gifts from God used their gifts for God and not for their own vanity. This is ''the'' stand out point on this subject for me. Someone who is able to gather much wealth has a gift that others don't and they must use it for God and not their vanity. Modesty is Christianity 101. Kudo's to the Pope on this!

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

God gave us brains and hands to be used + God does not want us to be lazy = wealth. God blesses / entrusts with more those who use what gifts they have. So prosperity is very scriptural.

But then so too is modesty and examining ourselves for greed and vanity.

If we look properly at the OT we see that all those prophets that had gifts from God used their gifts for God and not for their own vanity. This is ''the'' stand out point on this subject for me. Someone who is able to gather much wealth has a gift that others don't and they must use it for God and not their vanity. Modesty is Christianity 101. Kudo's to the Pope on this!

Kj greetings,
You said........
Someone who is able to gather much wealth has a gift that others don't and they must useit for God and not their vanity.

You are in error with this my friend for there is no special gift given by God to be wealthy other then knowing His word and knowing how to use His word or another words operate in the kingdom of God which is Gods way of doing things.

Also God has no problem what so ever if we have better things and use some for us. He gives bread to the eater and seed to the sower. Meaning God gives us wealth for both our pleasure and for sowing into the kingdom.
God Bless
James W

 

[JohnC]

Thinking about this.... Perhaps we have a bit of a vocabulary issue....

When we speak of "Prosperity" - we could potentially be talking about 2 things....

One is talking about prosperity as a physical, measurable output condition on your life... An increase in wealth, property, health, etc...

The other is speaking of God prospering things.... This may not necessarily result in a tangible increase to your own physical condition... It's more about alignment of your efforts with God's hand in your life.... Generally, what comes along with this is an increase in your joy, spiritual peace, etc.

Thanks

 

[JohnC]

So... The recent post on faith vs works got me thinking of this post....

Your service to God vs "religious works"...

I think it's a great opportunity to contrast the two. king Saul

 

[JohnC]

Sorry about that - somehow the post got cut off and I lost the rest.

There are 3 very large dangers with mistaking "religious works" Paul talks about such as sacrifices, rituals, rites, quests, and the like for the "works of faith" which James talks about.

One is assuming that they have actual value in and of themselves. Saul got tangled up calling for fasts, oaths, religious grandstanding, and even sacrifice which God had never called for.... Saul placed value on these actions as "holy" where God defclared that He had never called for or desired such.

Next is failing to place value and seriousness on the actual actions that God had called him to in real life - military and civil leadership of the nation of Israel. These seem "secular" and "profane" by comparison. They aren't sexy and exciting and "holy" - they are "just daily life" and require ongoing daily attention and grind. These were the actual holy ministries that God had ordained for Saul to perform with the anointing of the Holy Spirit.

And last... Perhaps most dangerous is that we become "calloused" when God does actually issue the real decree.. Numb because of the constant cry to do these "holy" things without God's direction, Spirit, or Power that when God finally does call for them - nobody takes them seriously. The signal to noise ratio becomes very unfavorable and it's hard to tell the true command from the noise.... When Saul was commanded to follow through on the total destruction of the Amalekites - the people did not take this seriously because Saul had never taken the numerous vows and fasts seriously previously.

Thanks

 

[JohnC]

So.

I want to challenge you folks reading this....

Maybe you have been or currently are praying that God would use you in His service and you keep looking towards The Church... But it just feels like it's always falling through. Maybe it feels like no one notices you at church. You offer and it just feels like neither church nor God wants your service.

Maybe it's time to lift up your eyes and recognize that your true service to God isn't inside the church building and it's not doing "church flavored things".

Only 1 tribe of 12 in Israel was allowed to administer the priesthood.... But all were declared "ministers of The Lord"... So it may be with you and me as well.

Maybe your "ministry" is to take your day job seriously and do a great job so your co-workers can receive the blessings God has prepared for them such as a good wage, stress free daily life, and good benefits.... Drive your company towards success so that a brother or sister in Christ can get a good job that he needs.

Maybe Take your role raising kids seriously. What a blessing that your kids grow up to be solid members of society and are well behaved, trained, prepared, and educated.

Take your marriage to your spouse seriously as your real ministry to God. Don't pour frustration and anger down on your spouse with stupid foolish words that beat them down. Quit griping, snipping, and grumbling at them under your breath. Don't take narcissistic grandstands to force an ignorant point. Don't intentionally do stupid things to make them mad or frustrated. Realize there is a time to just shut your mouth and cooperate. Be loving. Suck it up and help instead of griping. Because when you do - it's a giant blessing to your spouse.

A lot of guidance on these sort of matters is encompassed by a whole bunch of the wisdom in The Law, proverbs, sermon on the mount, and Paul's writings... Stuff like pay your bills on time. Don't withhold praise or credit from those whom it is due. Don't mistreat your employees or lord things over them. Don't mistreat people because you can get away with it. Resist acting on impulse. Learn from your mistakes and things that just don't work right. Don't double down on failure. Deal with the problems (including people) and exercise discipline when needed. Don't fail to count the costs or consider consequences. Etc....

When we follow through on this wisdom - blessings roll down hill. We touch other people's lives. Other people's prayers are answered. God flows in ways we never even know could possibly happen.

When we fail to recognize that this is a real true ministry to God - we act selfishly. We get frustrated and don't take out role seriously. We become calloused and uncaring. We inadvertently (or intentionally) prevent God's blessings from reaching others... Frustration, pain, confusion, jealousy, and hurt roll downhill instead of blessing.

Maybe your daily life IS your ministry.

Thanks

 

[CCW95A]

If any man desires to be used by God, then he must first purge himself from "iniquity", and then he will become a vessel of honor to be used by the master, and every good work. Iniquity is what man does on his own in his own power and strength even if it doing the Word of God. Iniquity looks holy and just in it's appearance, but it is an abomination to God. Jesus describes a group of people who were putting action to the Word of God, but he said all they were doing was iniquity!!! When man puts works to the Word of God on his own, without the Lord guiding him, and leading him to do so, it is called iniquity. When God works through man, it is called "righteousness"

Mat 7:21.. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22.. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have WE not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23.. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Notice, who did Jesus say was doing these works? He said "have WE not.....", and what did Jesus say they were doing? Iniquity!!!
Jesus said these signs shall follow them that "believe", he did "not" say these signs shall follow them that do them!!! (Mark 16:17) Man does the "believing", and God does the working.

If we never understand this in how man's work is simply to believe, and God's work is to do what man is believing in him to do, we will never be used by the master.

2Ti 2:19.. Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 2:20.. But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21.. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

If a man will purge himself from these what? "Iniquity"

 

[JohnC]

Unfortunately, you have the order backwards.

God makes use of us as we are for his service.... Thats how grace works. God picks up the slack when it's time for us to answer the call and present ourselves. That's the parable of the wise and foolish virgins. If we had to achieve perfection before we were qualified to perform service to God - we would never get there.

It's far more important to answer the call now, today, than it is to disqualify yourself by refusing the call because of your own perception of imperfection. That's what happened to Israel with the 12 witnesses at Kadesh. Yes - it was true that they were nowhere near strong enough to conquer the land.... But neither were they strong enough to fight with the Egyptian army behind them and the Red Sea in front.

Thanks

 

[CCW95A]

Unfortunately, you have the order backwards.

God makes use of us as we are for his service.... Thats how grace works. God picks up the slack when it's time for us to answer the call and present ourselves. That's the parable of the wise and foolish virgins. If we had to achieve perfection before we were qualified to perform service to God - we would never get there.

It's far more important to answer the call now, today, than it is to disqualify yourself by refusing the call because of your own perception of imperfection. That's what happened to Israel with the 12 witnesses at Kadesh. Yes - it was true that they were nowhere near strong enough to conquer the land.... But neither were they strong enough to fight with the Egyptian army behind them and the Red Sea in front.

Thanks

Brother, the five fold ministry is to bring the Church unto a "perfect" man. (Eph 4:13) The word "perfect" has absolutely nothing to do with being sinless. God told Abraham to "walk" before him and be "perfect". (Gen 17:1) Abraham was never sinless at anytime, but he was "perfect", not in being without sin, but being perfect in how he believed God. He believed God perfectly which is why he never "staggered" (staggering has to do with walking) at the promises of God through unbelief. The word "perfect" means to be "mature". Any Christian can be mature in their believing, and yet still be a sinner. If a brother or sister wants to be used by God then he/she must first purge themselves from iniquity which comes about by believing God perfectly which is the results of being mature (perfect).