I don't disagree with that actually, although I wouldn't say we are "controlled" by them as much as they are "influences". Our natural traits, beliefs, culture, feelings, and perceptions are who we are, but that doesn't mean we don't make genuine choices, does it?
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But the key is, we actually make a choice rather than just being some sort of software code that evaluates inputs and spits out the same output without variability.
That's interesting. I have a cousin who is the oldest of three siblings. She was actually fathered by a different man than the other two, but never knew it (the father & mother never married and he never had anything to do with them). Her mom married another man, "Joe", right after my cousin was born. Joe fathered the two younger children. Let's just say "Joe" wasn't exactly the brightest of guys and was prone to making ridiculously stupid decisions. But as far as my cousin knew, Joe was her father. It's all she ever knew.
But she was always very, very different than her siblings. She is smart and inquisitive, whereas her siblings were rather dim and slow. She used to tell me that she always felt "different" somehow, but couldn't put her finger on it. As adults, the three of them couldn't be more different. The two fathered by Joe are poor, in and out of trouble, usually unemployed, and keep dumping their kids off on their mom. The oldest OTOH is a professional Christian counselor with a masters degree. She's unbelievably successful.
All three of them were raised in the exact same environment, with the exact same parenting. Yet the oldest is about as different as she can be.
There have been a lot of studies that show the strong role genetics can play in various factors, and intelligence is one with one of the biggest effects.
It must be, because I see people make selfless choices all the time. History is full of examples of people sacrificing their own well-being (and even their lives) for other people or things.
I'm not aware of any that speak directly to what you're talking about, other than a handful of OT passages that say that God "determines our steps". Most of the lessons on this stem from the inferences we draw from some of the stories. Big question-wise, if you think we don't have true free will, how then are we accountable for our actions?
If a person was truly unable to accept Jesus, do you think God would realize that?
Hi River Jordan. Sorry that it's taken me so long to reply. Been really overwhelmed by work and other stuff.
Our natural traits, beliefs, culture, feelings, and perceptions are who we are, but that doesn't mean we don't make genuine choices, does it?
But the key is, we actually make a choice rather than just being some sort of software code that evaluates inputs and spits out the same output without variability.
You may be right. Allow me to pose an interesting scenario that I ponder quite often. If you and I were face to face, and I pull a quarter out of my pocket, then ask you to choose heads or tails, you would choose one of the two choices, naturally. Now here's my query: If after you made your choice, I pull out one of those nifty little sticks from Men in Black and erase your memory of the event (essentially resetting the factors), and then repeat the experiment one hundred times, would you make the same choice (heads or tails) a hundred times in a row, or would you make varied choices?
I assume that if free will existed, it would allow you to make varied choices, even though the experiment is identical each time. I also assume that if you were to make the same choice one hundred times in a row, you would be controlled by the internal factor scales that I believe simulate free will. Interesting thought eh?
You could very well be correct. There's no real way to know for sure, but it's interesting to theorize.
It must be, because I see people make selfless choices all the time. History is full of examples of people sacrificing their own well-being (and even their lives) for other people or things.
I'm not aware of any that speak directly to what you're talking about, other than a handful of OT passages that say that God "determines our steps". Most of the lessons on this stem from the inferences we draw from some of the stories. Big question-wise, if you think we don't have true free will, how then are we accountable for our actions?
I recall a real story of a crowd waiting for the subway train:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/03/nyregion/03life.html?_r=0
A man had fallen on the subway tracks as the train approached, and another man jumped into the path of the train and saved the other man's life by pushing him down and staying low as the train passed inches above their heads.
There's no doubt that this man is a hero. But why did he do it? Some would say that he was a good man, which gave him courage enough to do what had to be done to save his fellow man; but I think that there's more to it.
I believe that he did it because he was compelled to by factors that made up his personality. I believe that people will always do what makes them the most comfortable in all facets of their personality. I think the decision in his head looked something like this:
Reasons not to help:
a) Desire to live
b) Desire to consider family's needs
c) Fear of pain, injury, or death
Reasons to help
a) Will be regarded as a hero, regardless of success or survival
b) Could atone for previous bad actions
c) May secure good afterlife
d) May secure good reward if successful
e) Will feel too guilty otherwise
f) Important to do the right thing
This is how my mind works at least. Every decision is like a math problem on a chalkboard to me, and even a split decision goes through the chalkboard before I can make a decision. Other people seem to think on a different level than I do, so perhaps it only seems to me like I don't have free will because of the peculiar way that I handle life.
Big question-wise, if you think we don't have true free will, how then are we accountable for our actions?
If a person was truly unable to accept Jesus, do you think God would realize that?
Sometimes I wonder if God simply keeps the good children and burns the bad ones, regardless of how much control those people had over their lives. I mean, how many people are going to burn in Hell simply because they never heard the good news of Jesus?
I'm enjoying our conversation. I'm always interested in learning, and I can handle opposing viewpoints and challenges without taking offense. I hope you are enjoying it as much =)