So then what Jesus meant by saying it is finished? What was finished?What is finished??? Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Now, if the Jesus said think not that I came to destroy the law, lets reason together, what do destroy mean; to take away, etc, right. So that simply means that the law (commandments) is still on the table and the prophets
Jesus couldn't destroy the prophet because he had to fulfilled all of what the prophets wrote about Jesus and what he had and have to do. Jesus has a second coming and more things to do. The prophet Daniel spoke about Jesus second coming, the prophet Isaiah spoke about Jesus second coming, also Joel, and Zachariah, I can go on and on. Read your Bibles people and learn to ask question.
First of all, all is not fulfilled, lets look at this again
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
The Bible Speaks Of Only One Way To Eternal Salvation
- Thread starter Bro.tan
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So then what Jesus meant by saying it is finished? What was finished?
How true. Fortunately, our Judge is also our Advocate, and His atonement is sufficient for Him to judge us as blameless.
If anyone has faith in the power of Christ's atonement, what do they need to fear of His judgment? If we believe the Bible when it says that righteousness comes from faith, and there is evidence in our lives that our faith is real and living, then shouldn't we have confidence that our Judge will regard us as righteous, and our sin paid with His atonement (2 Cor 5:18-20)?
I submit to you that if we only follow God's commands to save ourselves, those works are regarded as worthless. And certainly, Paul sees his own flawless obedience to the Law as worthless compared with the righteousness that comes from faith. Paul teaches that God is the judge of not only the work itself, but the motives behind the work (1 Cor 4:5). In your understanding of what the Bible teaches, should those motives be self-serving or others-serving? What is the example we have from Christ and His motives? Are we to be compelled by fear of condemnation, or are we to be compelled by the love of Christ?
I am still curious about what you make of 1 Cor 3:10-15.
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I really do hate to be repeating myself all the time but my bro.tan just will not give it up. My dear brother. You must somehow, in some way find a tool or method to correctly understand the meanings of the Word of God which you continue to twist to make them fit what YOU want them to say.
We (I) all see and understand that you have an agenda that quite frankly is not Biblical. Again I say to you, there are ZERO, NONE,
O, verses in the Bible which tell us that we must keep the law or commandments in order to be saved or to stay saved!!!
You are purposefully distorting and misunderstanding the Scriptures.
The correct Biblical doctrine is .......
"we are saved by grace through faith and NOT of ourselves least we should boast! When are then saved by the grace of God, we will want to do good things and obey God our of a heart of love toward God. Therefore, GOOD WORKS AND OBEDIENCE are the products of salvation and not the way of salvation.
You quoted..........
(James 2:14-18, 20-26) (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit
When we study this we see very quickly that James is not asking about faith in general but the type of faith which one who makes claims without production of those works. I do not read Greek but I am told that this is confirmed by the presence of the definite article in Greek meaning "THE faith". -----"Can that faith save him"? would be the proper understanding. WHICH FAITH?
That which the man claims to have.!!!!
That being the case, James and Paul then are in total agreement that true SAVING FAITH RESULTS IN A CHANGED LIFE WHICH IS EVIDENCED BY THE WORKS THAT MAN DOES. True saving faith PRODUCES Good Works!
Then...........
(v.17) "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."
The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith.
James refers specifically to the faith which we saw was claimed but was not reality at all. Christians should want to and should do the good things that bless others so that Christ in them can be seen by all who know this person.
Then you posted.............
(v.21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
We read where Abraham, the father of the faithful showed the Lord his faith by his works
(Young's Literal Translation). We could say "Abraham was declared righteous because of his works." Paul and James look at justification and works from altogether different angles. Paul looks at the source of justification and looks at it from the viewpoint of God. James looks at the effects of justification from the viewpoint of man.
Paul says in Romans 4:2................
"For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God."
God can look into the heart of man and can see his faith, and when Abraham believed God he was justified. However, a man cannot look into the heart and so cannot say a man is justified until he sees evidences of it in his actions. When we see Abraham leading his son to the altar we know he is justified, because his actions prove he has faith in the Lord. But, if Abraham had not responded in this matter, we would know that he lacked faith, and we would not have been able to declare him righteous. Of course, other incidents beside this one prove Abraham had faith in God. It is possible to have works (although but fleshly) without faith, but it is impossible to have true faith without works resulting.
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary2:14-26 -------
"Those are wrong who put a mere notional belief of the gospel for the whole of evangelical religion, as many now do. No doubt, true faith alone, whereby men have part in Christ's righteousness, atonement, and grace, saves their souls; but it produces holy fruits, and is shown to be real by its effect on their works; while mere assent to any form of doctrine, or mere historical belief of any facts, wholly differs from this saving faith."
Then we have this..........
(v.22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? (v.23) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND IT WAS IMPUTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS: and he was called the friend of God. (v.24) Ye see then how that by works a man is Justified, and not by faith only.
The correct understanding would be......."Faith operated by means of his works". Salvation, again I say is NOT accomplished through the cooperation of faith and works. It is however that faith finds its channel of expression in works. Faith produces works!
"By works was faith made perfect" is rendered literally as "Out of works was faith completed". James embraces the same thought in 1:3-4 which once again tells us that the change of the inner character produces an attitude which now wants to do what God wants to do not the individual because faith has made the man NEW.
Then......
(v.25) Likewise also was not Ra’-hab the harlot justified by works, when she received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? Ra’-hab showed her faith in God and her fear of God by doing good works. (v.26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead
Heb. 11:31 actually confirms that Rahab's works were done by faith, and her actions were necessary to confirm her inner change of heart by that said faith. Had she remained in sin while claiming faith, she would have never been "declared righteous"(Justified).
My hope is that by posting this long production, those reading this without commenting can see that there is a correct and proper way for Bible study with out having to make it say something it does not in fact say and I hope this is helpful to all!
I feel like we are doing a Sunday School class having to correctly explain these verse that you post my brother.
1 Corth. 1:18
"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God".
The reason why Paul says what he said is actually about divisions in the local church over BAPTISM. When we go back to verse 13 we see that Paul is thankful that very few in Corinth were baptized by him. No one could ever accuse him of trying to gather a following in that way. The implication of that is obviously significant in that baptism is not necessary to be saved, else he would have been giving thanks to God that He saved so few.
The point is that baptism was not what God called him to do rather he asserts that CHRIST SENT ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL.
2 Corth. 2:15
"For we are unto God a sweet savor of Christ in them that are saved, and in them that perish."
To understand what Paul said, one must grasp the imagery conveyed in the use of the term of a Roman General who lead troops into victory with his men which consisted of two groups....".THEM THAT ARE SAVED and.......THEM THAT PERISH".
My dear brother.......Calvary was the mighty display of the infinite power of a holy and sovereign God. The human race was divided into two categories....those of life unto life and those of death unto death.
So then the practical lesson here is that the believer is a "savor" of God's infinite power and unspeakable love wherever he goes. Then as the believer proclaims this truth he divides men. So then, this is not a method of evangelism but a proclamation of the victory of Christ at Calvary.
As for Christ being the judge, I agree because that is what the Scriptures say.
Mat 20:1-16 The parable of the laborers - (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Workers_in_the_Vineyard ) - he who comes late gets the same pay as those who have labored longest. How do you explain this in terms of works and obeying the Mosaic law as salvation?
How does the Prodigal son compare to this doctrine. Luke 15:11-32(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Prodigal_Son ). The son who has no good works is treated and welcomed as well as the good son.
These parables diametrically oppose what Bro tan espouses. Can these be twisted to suit?
How does the Prodigal son compare to this doctrine. Luke 15:11-32(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Prodigal_Son ). The son who has no good works is treated and welcomed as well as the good son.
These parables diametrically oppose what Bro tan espouses. Can these be twisted to suit?
Bro.tan
Inactive
You repeat yourself because you are not realizing that the Bible is saying the same thing by different apostles or prophets. All the scriptures and verses I quote says exactly what that say. The Bible does not support your way of understanding it. I teach the uncut word of God. At the end of the day it comes down to Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
Bro.tan
Inactive
Now in (James 4:12) "There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who are thou that judgest another." Now if Jesus is your Lord, he is the only one who can judge whether you will be saved or destroyed and this happens at his appearing and his kingdom. Then, after 1,000 years of peace, the Judgment day (where all that have ever lived will be judged, by Jesus and his saints) Lets go into (1 Corinthians 6:1-3) Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? Let’s take a look in (Revelations 20:4) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Now (Genesis 22:18) says, "And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because thou has obeyed my voice." We know that this particular seed is Christ, so if we believe God, as Abraham did in (Genesis 26:5), and obey his voice, then are we Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise (to possess the land forever). In order for us to receive this promise, we must be able to live forever, but this aging body does not allow us to live that long.
But Jesus does, (Philippians 3:20-21), "For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the savior, the Lord Jesus Christ" (verse 1, 2), "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body according to the working where by he is able even to subdue all things unto himself." This is the perfect heavenly body we shall bear in (1 Corinthians 15:49) "and as we have borne the image of the earthly, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly." At this time and only at this time, you can say," I am saved."
If you are going to inherit the land forever, then you must have a body that is able to live forever. This is simple. This is the word of God. How else are salvaged from this death that Adam put us in?
Actually, Bro Tan, you clip and snip verses. Where is Ecclesiastes found? OT after Proverbs, when the Mosaic Law was unfulfilled. Even the OT agrees that one would come to fulfill the Law. Major keeps repeating because every verse you quote, out of context, again and again, does not actually say what you interpet it as. We all agree that scripture says the same thing, simply put, it does not say what you seem to think it says.
Yes, we know that there is still more promised to those who believe.
That's why, in that very same passage in Philippians, Paul says that he can attain such a salvation by "not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith," (v9).
So the question is not over the necessity of a "body that is able to live forever," but whether that body can be achieved through "a righteousness of my own derived from the Law," or through "that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."
You said that, "At this time and only at this time, you can say, 'I am saved.'" But will anyone be able to say, "I have saved myself through the perfection of my obedience," or will we only be able to say, "I have been saved by Christ, through His atonement for my imperfections"?
All true. But if we are to be judged, will we be judged by "a righteousness of my own derived from the Law," or through "that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."
In other words, if the whole duty of man is to "keep his commandments," is the atonement of Christ enough to pay for our failure in this duty?
IF.....you were a Judizer as bro. tan appears to be, the answer would be NO. That is exactly why bro. tan is working so hard to show that the law must be added to the completed work of the Lord Jesus.
It is probably just me, but bro.tan, can you please tell me what the point is you are trying to make?
Correct. The Scriptures do say exactly what THEY say. That is not the problem my friend. It is YOU trying to make them say something that YOU want them to say to fit into your agenda.
I hate to be so forward and blunt, but you are not teaching the uncut Word of God. I am sure you are meaning well and wanting to do good, but your exegesis of the Scriptures leaves a lot to be desired IMHO.
Bro.tan
Inactive
People must realize, that it is the keeping of God’s holy laws that separates the righteous from the unrighteous. Paul said in (Titus: 3:8) This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. You must learn (by the word of God) what God expects of you and maintain his expectations to the end, if you expect to be saved. Jesus said in (Matt. 5:16) Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. You are supposed to glorify your Father in heaven, and let your light shine before men. And how do you do that? By having good works. Sometimes as a Christian you don’t have to say a word, people will see your works. Lets go into (Ezek. 33:30-32) Also, thou son of man, the children of thy people still are talking against thee by the walls and in the doors of the houses, and speak one to another, every one to his brother saying, Come, I pray you, and hear what is the word that cometh forth from the Lord. (v.31) And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and they sit before thee as my people, and they hear thy words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they shew much love, but their heart goeth after their covetousness. (v. 32) And, lo, thou art unto them as a very lovely song of one that hath a pleasant voice, and can play well on an instrument: for they hear thy words, but they do them not. Hopefully the time will come when you realize that you need more than lip service when it comes to serving the Lord. You must learn what thus saith the Lord, and do it! This includes keeping the Sabbath day on the seventh day of week as written in the (law) commandments.
Bro.tan
Inactive
Proverbs 9:8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee. 9:9 Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning. 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
Open your heart, Bro Tan, and let the Holy Spirit instruct you. Again and again, many have said that Christians should and do good works to reflect the glory of God and what we believe/know. Your salvation comes from accepting Christ as your Lord and Savior. Nothing more is needed. You have eclipsed your own salvation - waiting until you meet your maker. And He will ask why you didn't believe when you lived.
I for one believe the Bible teaches that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven. He IS the narrow and strait gate, and faith is the narrow way. The first and ONLY step needed to be saved is to believe that Jesus Christ was sent to die for the sins of mankind. The Law was our schoolmaster ( Galatians 3:24 ) to help us see our faulty and ungodly nature. When we believe in Christ we receive the holy spirit ( Galatians 3:14 ), and then he works on us and sanctifies us. We cannot be duped into the teaching that says that you must obey the commandments if you are really a Christian. This leads people to believe that being a Christian means keeping the commandments, oh no
! Being a Christian is having faith in Jesus Christ, and by this we are saved and the holy spirit comes to sanctify us. Salvation is not our doing, but it is from God. We love him because HE loved us FIRST ( 1 John 4:19 ). If we argue that a true Christian keeps the commandments, then we, as Christians trying/struggling to keep the commandments expect that our efforts are actually getting us closer to God. It is the other way round! God brings us close to him through Jesus Christ, and the holy spirit breeds us a new nature. 
! Being a Christian is having faith in Jesus Christ, and by this we are saved and the holy spirit comes to sanctify us. Salvation is not our doing, but it is from God. We love him because HE loved us FIRST ( 1 John 4:19 ). If we argue that a true Christian keeps the commandments, then we, as Christians trying/struggling to keep the commandments expect that our efforts are actually getting us closer to God. It is the other way round! God brings us close to him through Jesus Christ, and the holy spirit breeds us a new nature. Another thing to note. The fear of the God is the BEGINNING of wisdom
. The old covenant is there to invoke in us a fear of God, and for us to realize we cannot be made worthy before him( and we are not 
). The end and truth of wisdom is the LOVE of God, realizing he sent his son to save the world. Do you see God's plan of salvation now?