Dueling Scriptures........
Proverbs 20:11
"Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right".
The Bible Speaks Of Only One Way To Eternal Salvation
- Thread starter Bro.tan
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Dueling Scriptures........
Proverbs 20:11
"Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right".
I for one believe the Bible teaches that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven. He IS the narrow and strait gate, and faith is the narrow way. The first and ONLY step needed to be saved is to believe that Jesus Christ was sent to die for the sins of mankind. The Law was our schoolmaster ( Galatians 3:24 ) to help us see our faulty and ungodly nature. When we believe in Christ we receive the holy spirit ( Galatians 3:14 ), and then he works on us and sanctifies us. We cannot be duped into the teaching that says that you must obey the commandments if you are really a Christian. This leads people to believe that being a Christian means keeping the commandments, oh no! Being a Christian is having faith in Jesus Christ, and by this we are saved and the holy spirit comes to sanctify us. Salvation is not our doing, but it is from God. We love him because HE loved us FIRST ( 1 John 4:19 ). If we argue that a true Christian keeps the commandments, then we, as Christians trying/struggling to keep the commandments expect that our efforts are actually getting us closer to God. It is the other way round! God brings us close to him through Jesus Christ, and the holy spirit breeds us a new nature.
And you would be believing correctly my brother!!!!
Another thing to note. The fear of the God is the BEGINNING of wisdom. The old covenant is there to invoke in us a fear of God, and for us to realize we cannot be made worthy before him( and we are not
). The end and truth of wisdom is the LOVE of God, realizing he sent his son to save the world. Do you see God's plan of salvation now?
Welcome to the site! Pull up a chair, throw off your coat and stay awhile!
You said..........
" People must realize, that it is the keeping of God’s holy laws that separates the righteous from the unrighteous."
Even the most elementary baby Christian know how wrong that is my brother!
1 Tim. 1:9
" Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man!
Bro. tan, surely you must know that the Mosaic law system was not designed or intended to develop the Christian life. The purpose of the law is to reveal your inner sinful nature. Trying to be obedient to the law does not develop holiness, perhaps self-righteousness but never holiness.
Humans cannot obey the law and never could obey the law system. God did not obliterate
Israel because Israel was a worse nation than any other nation. God spared us and selected
Israel to demonstrate once and for all that mankind is deeply evil. God's chosen, holy people
crucified their own creator for heaven's sake, what greater proof do you need?????
The flesh of man is not redeemable, it is absolutely corrupt. Christians are inhabited by the Holy
Spirit and it is through the walking in step with the holy spirit which is the Christian life. God builds
the life from within without the aid of the law, God sanctifies via the spirit. We my brother are saved from the inside out.
The whole point of the law is not that we can easily obey the law because we are basically good.
On the contrary, the law tells us very firmly that we cannot obey the law because we are not
good by any measure. For example, not stealing does not make a person holy. No law
will assist a person to become holy at all, the law only condemns.
I continue to be amazed at how you cannot see and understand such basic fundamental Bible doctrine.
Bro.tan
Inactive
I for one believe the Bible teaches that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven. He IS the narrow and strait gate, and faith is the narrow way. The first and ONLY step needed to be saved is to believe that Jesus Christ was sent to die for the sins of mankind. The Law was our schoolmaster ( Galatians 3:24 ) to help us see our faulty and ungodly nature. When we believe in Christ we receive the holy spirit ( Galatians 3:14 ), and then he works on us and sanctifies us. We cannot be duped into the teaching that says that you must obey the commandments if you are really a Christian. This leads people to believe that being a Christian means keeping the commandments, oh no
You quote a verse by Paul, you miss understand it, so you follow it as your doctrine...your choice your life. I quote more verses by Paul, and by Jesus, and by the prophets, saying different. If your believe was true the Bible should of been a much more thinner book. Once you understand what’s concrete in the Bible then at that point nothing can overturn it. For example Paul said in 1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Let continue with Paul. Let go into Galatians 5: Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Now Paul said in Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
Now lets understand and reason together, Paul just gave us a run down on condition of sins. What is sin? Lets go into (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. People who are behaving in such manner will not inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Does not sound like people are save and free. So according to all of this writing by Paul, you miss understood what Paul was saying, because this is clear, crystal clear.
Bro.tan
Inactive
I don't like to use to the word Mosaic law, because Moses do not have a law. But my next question would be which law? Keep in mind Jesus had a situation where he had to refer to the law in Matthew 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? What you are saying is not only wrong but makes no sense. If people would keep the Law (commandments) in this world, we would have a much better world to live in. No stealing, killing, adultery, fornication, etc. This is what makes a person holy. Paul explain this in Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Paul said, A person that does not keep the law (commandments) is carnal minded and a carnal minded person is enmity against God. Means you got a problem with God. Now if you keep the law (commandments), you are in the spirit of God, you don't walk with a fleshy mind, but a spiritual mind, so you do the things that pleases God. Like keep the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week (Saturday)... that's simple.
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I believe same as you the unrighteous do not INHERIT the kingdom of God. But we are not unrighteous anymore because we have faith in Jesus Christ, now we are called children of God. If you think you can be counted righteous by doing works then go ahead and do them. The whole point is WITHOUT Christ NOONE inherits the kingdom. But through him we do!
I believe same as you the unrighteous do not INHERIT the kingdom of God. But we are not unrighteous anymore because we have faith in Jesus Christ, now we are called children of God. If you think you can be counted righteous by doing works then go ahead and do them. The whole point is WITHOUT Christ NOONE inherits the kingdom. But through him we do!
Strange title, Cosmic
but I like it. Regarding Bro: Some people will never listen (sigh). He puts up one verse from the Bible that says the unrighteous can't inherit the kingdom and then another verse that says all flesh works (who do the same sins as the unrighteous) can't inherit either. He talks about stable ground for faith and then plants land minds all about. He won't know he is saved until he meets his Maker. My guess is that is true for him.
Bro.tan
Inactive
I believe same as you the unrighteous do not INHERIT the kingdom of God. But we are not unrighteous anymore because we have faith in Jesus Christ, now we are called children of God. If you think you can be counted righteous by doing works then go ahead and do them. The whole point is WITHOUT Christ NOONE inherits the kingdom. But through him we do!
That makes no sense, Jesus is not stopping you from doing anything, you have that control and that choice to do good or evil is up to you.
Paul said in (Titus 1:16) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him; being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Yea, most people are talking about how they know God with their lips, but by they works they are doing something totally different. The Lord God commanded people to remember the Sabbath day (which is the seventh day of the week) to keep it holy and most people deny him to his face by saying “I go to church on Sunday (the first day of the week) because Paul broke bread on Sunday”.
Paul said in (Gal. 6:3-5, 7) (v.3) For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. (v.4) But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
The book says let every man prove his own work, and if your work is good then you will rejoice in it. (v.5) For every man shall bear his own burden. That’s right; every man must bear his own burden. You mean you thought that all you had to do was confess the name of Jesus and that was it? Brothers and sisters you must work to get salvation. (v.7) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. God is not to be played with. Whatsoever you plant, that’s what you are going to reap. Be it good works unto eternal life, or evil works unto eternal damnation. The choice is yours, and your works belong to you.
Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Ga 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith:
So are some "claiming" to keep the law of Moses? I have some questions for you, if you don't mind defending what you are trying to teach to others?
1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
Bro.tan
Inactive
Well, lets take a look at what Paul was saying with understanding in (Gal. 3:1, 13, 16-17, 19, 24) (v.1) O FOOLISH Ga-la’-tians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (v.13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, CURSED IS EVERYONE THAT HANGETH ON A TREE: What law is this talking about? Let the bible speak for itself. (v.16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of One, AND TO THY SEED, which is Christ. (v.17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. Now pay attention, the law that is being spoken of here came four hundred and thirty years after this covenant. But God’s holy commandments have been around forever even before man was created. Remember that Satan was kicked out of heaven because iniquity (sin) was found in him. And what is sin? The transgression of the law (commandments). (v.19) Wherefore then serveth the law? A question is being asked here. Then why should we serve this law? It was added because of transgression, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; the law that we are talking about here was added because of sin. But we now know that sin is the transgression of the law. How do you add a law if sin is the transgression of the law? Because there are two sets of laws, you have God’s holy commandments which abided forever, and you had the animal sacrificial law which was added because of sin, but it was only good until the seed should come to whom the promise was made, and that seed was Jesus. (v.24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This animal sacrificial law was only a schoolmaster. And this schoolmaster taught you that when you sinned in ignorance blood had to be shed (an animal sacrificed). But Christ being the ultimate sacrifice shed his precious blood once and for all, and by doing this putting an end to the animal sacrificial law.
If you are following all of the writing of Paul, then you will find out that you are following Jesus, and if you are truly following Jesus then you are following the law of God.
So even though the bible does not in anyway suggest that God gave the law of Moses (before Moses) and the New Testament makes clear that the believer has been delivered from the law, you are trying to teach that Paul is confused about what law he is speaking of?
Lets look in context:
Ga 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Now is this the book that God wrote through Moses, better known as the law of Moses, or is this some book that only you seem to be aware of?
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Is Paul now talking about another law? Or all things written in the book of the law?
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Now clearly the "covenant" is that which was made with Abraham, and the law of Moses was 430 years after
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 ¶ Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
This is clearly the Ten Commandments that condemns all under sin.
Bro.tan
Inactive
Not Paul confused...you are my friend! God had Peter to clearly warn people about some of Paul’s writing. Lets take a look in (2Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Now you need to take heed to this warning, people can’t ignore all the bible and just concentrate on one or two verse out of the writings of Paul. Because some of Paul’s writing is hard to be understood.
So words don't really mean what they say? It is clear what Paul is saying "evident" and Peter continues :
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.]
So it is not those under grace who are blind or confused about the truth of the gospel, but those under law.
2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
These are those Peter says are not able to understand and cannot reconcile the truth of Gods Word.
1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
Ga 3:1 ¶ O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Ga 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Ga 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Bro.tan
Inactive
You have an uncomfortable spirit on you. Paul said in Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
I have that Spirit of God, that convicts men of their sin because of unbelief. And convicts believers of righteousness. I have only quoted the scriptures in clear context, if you seem offend by this? Maybe you should question why the scriptures (in context) seem to bring discomfort to you?
Bro.tan
Inactive
Sisters and brothers God gives us all these earthy examples regarding faith. People have so much faith in their job that they work seven, sometimes fourteen days, and why? Because they have faith (believe) that they employer is going to pay them according to their works. Some of us have so much faith in our employer that we take out thirty-year mortgages on homes, five- year car loans. When you go to apply for these loans and the loan officer asks you for proof of income and employment, you don’t say “man I don’t have a job, just have faith in me, I’ll pay you”. The loan officer is going to run a credit report because he wants to see your past works and your history that’s how he judges if he can have enough faith in you to give you a loan. God works the same way, he is going to lay your works on the table on judgment day and judge you accordingly.
Paul said in (2Tim. 4:1) I CHARGE thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom. And by what means will he use to judge you? You will be judged according to your works, pertaining to the commandments.
Jesus said in (John 17:3-4) (v.3) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (v.4) I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. Yes Jesus did much work. He is the captain of our salvation and the captain is leading by his example, by his works.
Paul said in (Phil. 2:12) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Now if you need not work, then why is Paul telling you to “WORK” out your own salvation, and pay close attention because he also says with “fear and trembling”.
Paul said in (2Tim. 4:1) I CHARGE thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom. And by what means will he use to judge you? You will be judged according to your works, pertaining to the commandments.
Jesus said in (John 17:3-4) (v.3) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (v.4) I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. Yes Jesus did much work. He is the captain of our salvation and the captain is leading by his example, by his works.
Paul said in (Phil. 2:12) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Now if you need not work, then why is Paul telling you to “WORK” out your own salvation, and pay close attention because he also says with “fear and trembling”.
2Ti 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
Ga 3:1 ¶ O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Eph 2:4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.