Learning Genesis

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That is not what I said...it is you who are (typically) shrinking the box...I said other methods of verification OTHER THAN the scientific method and that the scientific method has obvious short comings. I think we dealt with this on another thread, but as an example, prove by the scientific alone why the water on my stove is boiling?

And the balloon analogy was about a Peruvian not all Peruvians...the one now has to or try to tell the others (like you) who have zero frame of reference. Many (like you) will not believe him no matter what he says...however the balloon IS real...because he experienced it personally and thus can never deny it. So it is with God...He is real and many (not all who claim it) have experienced Him...because many have not does not negate the others actual experience or make it merely a wish or an indoctrination...

But so as an example "Why is the water on my stove boiling?" Humor me...Answer me from what science can tell me? Thanks
 
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TubbyTubby said:
Many types of medication can surpress dreams, if you were taking a prescription this may explain why you had a period of dreamless nights.

I'm puzzled as to how you diagnosed a dry joint AFTER the fault had cleared. Finding a dry joint causing an intermittent open circuit can be tricky for a skilled person, finding a dry joint that has been 'cured' is mind boggling to me.
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I was not on medication in those days. I was a normal healthy young adult. I have never played around with drugs, and I have never suffered from alcoholic constipation.

Tuby Tuby you didn't read my post with understanding did you.
As for the dry joint, reread my post, (you are familiar with the English language I trust), then reread it again, read it to your cat till a great light shines for you.. I said the problem was a recurring one, that made diagnosis difficult as are all such intermittent faults.
Hint::: reread lines 9 & 10....well you probably should reread the whole post several times as I suspect 99% of it was as a 747 for you.
Knowing the likely areas of a circuit that are apt to cause the specific fault helps greatly, but yes, intermittent faults are the bane of every service technician, but never the downfall.
Seems to me that in your haste to be a skeptic and paint others as fools,....well have you ever heard of a 'backfire'?
Don't make the mistake of thinking that Christians are your intellectual inferiors.....we are not.
If your last reply to me is an example of the studious way in which you have investigated all the evidence for a Creator,......little wonder that you are still an atheist.
 
calvin said:
I was not on medication in those days. I was a normal healthy young adult. I have never played around with drugs, and I have never suffered from alcoholic constipation.

Tuby Tuby you didn't read my post with understanding did you.
As for the dry joint, reread my post, (you are familiar with the English language I trust), then reread it again, read it to your cat till a great light shines for you.. I said the problem was a recurring one, that made diagnosis difficult as are all such intermittent faults.
Hint::: reread lines 9 & 10....well you probably should reread the whole post several times as I suspect 99% of it was as a 747 for you.
Knowing the likely areas of a circuit that are apt to cause the specific fault helps greatly, but yes, intermittent faults are the bane of every service technician, but never the downfall.
Seems to me that in your haste to be a skeptic and paint others as fools,....well have you ever heard of a 'backfire'?
Don't make the mistake of thinking that Christians are your intellectual inferiors.....we are not.
If your last reply to me is an example of the studious way in which you have investigated all the evidence for a Creator,......little wonder that you are still an atheist.
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Either the intermittent fault was cleared and permanantly fixed after your dream or the intermittent fault was still present and causing problems after your dream.

Which is it?
 
TubbyTubby said:
It appears that the intermittent fault cleared after your dream and then returned later (because you managed to diagnose the fault). Is that correct?
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There are 2 possible scenarios, as far as I can tell but I'm waiting for you to tell me which is correct.

1 You had an intermittent radio fault. You had a dream and the fault fixed itself permanantly. You later diagnosed this as an intermittent dry joint. In this case, I want to know how you can find an intermittent fault that was no longer there (a fault that has no possible diagnosis).

2 You had an intermittent radio fault. You had a dream and the fault fixed itself. The fault later reappeared (as they tend to), you then diagnosed a dry joint. In this case, what was the mystery or intervention from God? You had an intermittent fault that came good for a while but then came back. That's just a definition of an intermittent fault.

It has to be one or the other, which is it?
 
It is all there in post # 456 Tubby Tubby. If you have a comprehension deficit....well.... is the 5 year old in your neighborhood who could help you out?
You are very unskillfully trying to cloud the issue. If you want clouded issues, post something yourself and apply your errr ummm skill to that.
 
I'm getting a little bored with this childishness. Tubby Tubby, I will grant you this: You have provided an excellent platform for a few of the folks here to provide brief testimonies. Their testimonies are an encouragement to not only us, but I'm sure many many readers.
Thank you:)
 
TubbyTubby said:
Presumably because you have applied heat to it. Either that or your house has somehow become a vacuum.
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Sorry, that's HOW! Science cannot determine the why, although it is THE MOST IMPORTANT REALITY for why the water is boiling...science therefore has limits as a form of verification...(though your ego may not allow admission here, I KNOW you know...)

My mother passed over in 1985...she loved me and always shared her memories of real events that we had shared when little...that she enjoyed....science can never ever prove her love for me...but she did...all the autopsies can never ever find those precious memories she shared...but they really happened...

Some aspects of reality can be verified by science and that is wonderful...some aspects of reality CANNOT be verified by science and that is still wonderful....both types of aspects are true and real...but it is not rational to only accept the first group of realities.
 
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calvin said:
It is all there in post # 456 Tubby Tubby. If you have a comprehension deficit....well.... is the 5 year old in your neighborhood who could help you out?
You are very unskillfully trying to cloud the issue. If you want clouded issues, post something yourself and apply your errr ummm skill to that.
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You described an experience that you ascribe to God. I pointed out that your story has some fundamental flaws in it - it doesn't make sense. I'm not trying to cloud any issues, your story is incomprehensible even to someone that believes in God.

You probably realise this as well which is why you won't answer my question about your experience.
 
Brother Paul said:
Sorry, that's HOW! Science cannot determine the why, although it is THE MOST IMPORTANT REALITY for why the water is boiling...science therefore has limits as a form of verification...(though your ego may not allow admission here, I KNOW you know...)

My mother passed over in 1985...she loved me and always shared her memories of real events that we had shared when little...that she enjoyed....science can never ever prove her love for me...but she did...all the autopsies can never ever find those precious memories she shared...but they really happened...

Some aspects of reality can be verified by science and that is wonderful...some aspects of reality CANNOT be verified by science and that is still wonderful....both types of aspects are true and real...but it is not rational to only accept the first group of realities.
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Because the energy transferred to the water molecules causes them to change state and evaporate as gas.

Why does water do that? It does so because it follows the laws and properties of liquids that are fixed (at least in this Universe). Not sure I can answer it any other way, are you asking 'why' as in why would it do that and not something else like turn into stone? Or why because it should have a choice of what it wants to do but only ever does one thing - boil.

Interesting question but a bit philosophical for me really.
 
Ahhh why do I bother????????????????????????
Well Tubby Tubby, the reason I don't answer your question is because a) the information is contained within my earlier post #456. and
b) you are focusing on the wrong things.
You are very unskillfully trying to cloud the issue here by asking juvenile questions that I'd expect a 5 year old to to know the answer to.
And no, I can't be manipulated into playing your childish games.
I do notice that none of the other regulars are chiming in to say that my post has some 'fundamental flaws it it' No the only flaws here are contained in your childish attempts to shift the focus from the real issue here to some fruitless merry-go-round. Sorry Tubby Tubby, I'm not going to dance the maypole with you. Find someone else.
 
(waving away the testosterone fumes :)) Just for clarification purposes, If you reread Calvin's post - the story of the intermittant whatchamajigger - He says he had a dream, at a time when he didn't believe in God, and he found the discovery of the dream with the reality that the radio suddenly working, as incomprehensible - even when he found what had caused the actual problem. He was trying, I think? to show the difference between 2 "supernatural" events one as a non christian and one as a believer.
Paul is trying to make the point that observation takes place both in science and the spiritual realm. It reminds me of the quantum mechanics theory - that a quantum particle is known to be in 2 places at the same time, until it is observed and then the behavior changes. Things at the quantum level do not follow the same rules as in the macro level. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mechanics or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_quantum_mechanics)
Rofl - doubt this helps.
 
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Silk said:
He says he had a dream, at a time when he didn't believe in God, and he found the discovery of the dream with the reality that the radio suddenly working, as incomprehensible - even when he found what had caused the actual problem. He was trying, I think? to show the difference between 2 "supernatural" events one as a non christian and one as a believer.
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This point is getting old but as my final say on the matter..

If the radio fixed its intermittent fault and then started to work again what is the point of the story - that's just an intermittent fault.

If the radio fixed its intermittent fault permanantly so the fault no longer exists, how can someone later diagnose and cure that non-existent fault?

Surely someone sees my point.
 
TubbyTubby said:
Because the energy transferred to the water molecules causes them to change state and evaporate as gas.

Why does water do that? It does so because it follows the laws and properties of liquids that are fixed (at least in this Universe). Not sure I can answer it any other way, are you asking 'why' as in why would it do that and not something else like turn into stone? Or why because it should have a choice of what it wants to do but only ever does one thing - boil.

Interesting question but a bit philosophical for me really.
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N0! Again thats how....The reason why was because I was making tea....
 
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