Learning Genesis

[TubbyTubby]

Actually, I was not making a direct comment on your language skills TubbyTubby. I was discussing your communication skills....is there a difference?? I think there is.
For other readers who don't know, but are mildly interested, I was musing about a thingy called 'transactional analysis'. Applying that analysis technique to your communications here is really very informative.
calvin,
aka the profiler.

Never heard of it until you mentioned it. What has this technique revealed to you about me?

 

[calvin]

your conduct on this forum is childish, yet you are intelligent and capable of better things

 

[TubbyTubby]

your conduct on this forum is childish, yet you are intelligent and capable of better things

Do you think I'm childish because I am here to intentionally provoke you or am I childish simply because I don't agree with you?

I did an online test and answered as honestly as I could although some questions could have gone either way for me.



It suggests I have high parental, moderate adult and moderate child characteristics. Don't know whether that's right or not, difficult to see yourself from anothers perspective. Perhaps you are right and I'm just childish, who knows.

 

[calvin]

It is my observation based only on what has transacted on this forum. It may well be that you use your parent ego out side of this forum. Indeed you have used your parent ego twice I think (certainly once), when replying to me. But note well that I did not say that you are childish period.

Do you think I'm childish because I am here to intentionally provoke you or am I childish simply because I don't agree with you?

However what I actually said------

your conduct on this forum is childish, yet you are intelligent and capable of better things

I have no idea how you present yourself in the home, at work (assuming you are employed) at the local, or any other place aside from here.
Considering I don't have access to a broader sample of your reactions, and that a broader sample rated your child ego state at around 42%, that is actually rather high for an adult and I would suggest that my analysis given the restricted data available to me is both fair and realistic.

 

[TubbyTubby]

It is my observation based only on what has transacted on this forum. It may well be that you use your parent ego out side of this forum. Indeed you have used your parent ego twice I think (certainly once), when replying to me. But note well that I did not say that you are childish period. However what I actually said------
I have no idea how you present yourself in the home, at work (assuming you are employed) at the local, or any other place aside from here.

I probably present myself slightly differently at work than with my family, but my work requires a certain amount of formality so it's inevitable I suppose. Although different again when socialising with work colleagues. There must be a common theme of my personality in all situations but it alters slightly, that is probably true for lots of people.

And what is your ego classed as according to transactional analysis? Does it change between workplace and home?

 

[calvin]

I probably present myself slightly differently at work than with my family, but my work requires a certain amount of formality so it's inevitable I suppose. Although different again when socialising with work colleagues. There must be a common theme of my personality in all situations but it alters slightly, that is probably true for lots of people.

And what is your ego classed as according to transactional analysis? Does it change between workplace and home?

Yes, I expect your observation is correct. We do tend to project our ego states differently in different environments or different situations.
At work (I'm now retired), I had to develop a strong adult ego state moderated sometimes with a 'Sympathetic parent' ego state.
Some would simply cut all the decorations away and simply call it 'customer handling skills'.

 

[Silk]

Sorry - I don't get the point of this. I don't see Matt's behavior as childish, but perhaps I just don't get what you mean. Any more than I see God needing "faith".

 

[calvin]

Sorry - I don't get the point of this. I don't see Matt's behavior as childish, but perhaps I just don't get what you mean. Any more than I see God needing "faith".

We all see things differently Silk. Perhaps the point of this is a peaceable interlude while we wait for the red herrings to cook.
We are supposed to be investigating Genesis; so whenever TubbyTubby wishes to proceed.............

 

[Silk]

We all see things differently Silk. Perhaps the point of this is a peaceable interlude while we wait for the red herrings to cook.
We are supposed to be investigating Genesis; so whenever TubbyTubby wishes to proceed.............

I agree that we all see some things differently. I'm all for investigating Genesis.

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

 

[Brother Paul]

My apologies, this was why I was trying to clarify the question so that I didn't insult anyones intelligence. I do have a tendency to skim read things sometimes and miss an important point like here, its not intentional just one of my failings.

So Thallus reported "Indeed the whole known world fell under a sudden darkness" when the Moon was full. Well I can't explain that with a scientific, or Galilean if you like, understanding of the mechanics of our Solar system.

I have no idea what it would mean, maybe he was speaking metaphorically? I don't know.

No! Thallus did not say it was dark under a full moon, he and Julius and Phlegon reported a darkness mid-afternoon on the day of a full moon which prior to discovering their reports had only been recorded in the Bible (and had been considered by skeptics to be a dramatic literary device)...so once more...

How can a "scientific proof" only view account for this phenomena that only lasted precisely during the time Christ hung on the cross? Science cannot "prove" it, in fact according to science alone it could not happen...but it did!

There should be no need to "clarify" the question as it was stated clearly if read for what it simply asked (I even re-stated and you again answered something not asked)....

 

[Major]

Yes, I expect your observation is correct. We do tend to project our ego states differently in different environments or different situations.
At work (I'm now retired), I had to develop a strong adult ego state moderated sometimes with a 'Sympathetic parent' ego state.
Some would simply cut all the decorations away and simply call it 'customer handling skills'.

Not me calvin. I am always the same wherever I am. Cute, sweet and happy!

 

[Major]

Sorry - I don't get the point of this. I don't see Matt's behavior as childish, but perhaps I just don't get what you mean. Any more than I see God needing "faith".

God DOESN"T need faith???? Oh right...He is the source OF faith.

 

[Silk]

God DOESN"T need faith???? Oh right...He is the source OF faith.

? Yes, He is the source.

 

[Major]

I agree that we all see some things differently. I'm all for investigating Genesis.

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

I agree Silk. What I have realized over the years is that we as believers must be equipped with the truth of God in order to stand against the culturally appealing philosophies of the world that challenge our trust in God. To keep that from happening we all need to study Scripture and ask God to grow it in our hearts and minds. We all need to study the creation story because if nothing else, knowing where we came from can help us get to where we need to be.

I personally believe that it will solidify our belief in the Creator and will equip us to share the truth with those who get tangled up in culturally reasoned theories.

Now then.......because I believe in the inerrancy of Scripture, I believe that Genesis 1 is the ONLY ACCURATE account of the creation of the universe. It is not my interpretation. It is what happened.

Now if you all just think for a moment, the Genesis account of creation is the ONLY account of how we got here.
Everything else is "theory, conjecture, hypothesis or I think this is what happened" and non of it can be repeated.

 

[Major]

I agree that we all see some things differently. I'm all for investigating Genesis.

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

I believe Silk that there are four (4) things we can learn from these few words from God.

1. The Effect produced---the whole frame and furniture of the universe.
2. The author and cause of the great work.---That would be God.
3. The manner of creation-----God created it, that is, He made it all out of nothing.
The Hebrew word "bara" is an exclusive word for one thing----"Created out of nothing".
4. When was all of this done----In the beginning. That is a reference of not only the beginning
of the universe but also of all that we understand about time. From that point on all life would
be measured in days and by light and darkness. Before Creation, nothing existed except God.

Therefore, Creation IMO is the end result of the Creator. Now there is the KEY! If a person can not and will not accept God, he will never be able to accept the Creation story.

 

[Silk]

Yes Major. And I also think this is why some things can be hard to understand. God exists outside of time and space, and we can only see time as linear. Even scientists says that if anything was done just a little bit left or a wee bit to the right, we would have a universe not friendly to life. This one is.

 

[Major]

We all see things differently Silk. Perhaps the point of this is a peaceable interlude while we wait for the red herrings to cook.
We are supposed to be investigating Genesis; so whenever TubbyTubby wishes to proceed.............

If we are going to have red herrings, can we add a shrimp cocktail to that?

 

[Major]

Yes Major. And I also think this is why some things can be hard to understand. God exists outside of time and space, and we can only see time as linear. Even scientists says that if anything was done just a little bit left or a wee bit to the right, we would have a universe not friendly to life. This one is.

I agree! When we consider Creation and if we are totally honest with ourselves, we have to admit that Creation is a mystery. First there was nothing.......then heaven and earth and the universe. And that was but the beginning.

Reason and logic says that such an event could not happen and that is where our friend Tubby is coming from. He does not believe in God therefore he can not believe what God has done. Again, if we are honest we would have to admit that creation is impossible.....
BUT that is where faith in God comes in and carries us forward. Intellectually our brains make it impossible to grasp creation.
You see our minds are FINATE and restricted by our humanity. Something from nothing is incomprehensible. There has to be a first before there can be a second. But God is not bound by our limitations!!!!

As believers, we are not without evidence from which we can draw conclusions hence we have the Biblical story of Creation. God knew it would be hard for us to understand it so He left us a written record of what took place. So then, again........................
the real problem here is NOT believing in Creation over evolution but is in fact NOT BELIEVING IN A HOLY GOD WHO DID THE CREATING!!!!

It is our faith in the Lord that takes us beyond reasoning to the wonderful truth of what God actually did in Creation. Just because we can not explain or understand how the earth came to be does not give credence to the theories suggesting otherwise.

 

[TubbyTubby]

No! Thallus did not say it was dark under a full moon, he and Julius and Phlegon reported a darkness mid-afternoon on the day of a full moon which prior to discovering their reports had only been recorded in the Bible (and had been considered by skeptics to be a dramatic literary device)...so once more...

How can a "scientific proof" only view account for this phenomena that only lasted precisely during the time Christ hung on the cross? Science cannot "prove" it, in fact according to science alone it could not happen...but it did!

There should be no need to "clarify" the question as it was stated clearly if read for what it simply asked (I even re-stated and you again answered something not asked)....

So you believe unequivocally that the writings of Thallus/Julius/Phlegon are correct?

What is your reasoning to believe these words of man from centuries ago, and yet be very quick to dismiss the words of men from 2014?

You must have some basis to your selection criteria that allows you to believe one man and not another?

 

[Silk]

The thing is, Matt, no one is saying in 2014 that they know what happened to cause the darkness between the 6th and the 9th hour (1pm-3pm?) but besides being recorded in the bible, this darkness was supported by 2 objective (outside) sources.