huh?Based on the understanding of the whole counsel of the word.
huh?Based on the understanding of the whole counsel of the word.
You're talking about satan now.. I'm talking about Lucifer. There is only 1 scripture mentioning Lucifer, and it is debated that the scripture is not talking about satan at all, but a corrupt king.. Since there is only 1 scripture referencing Lucifer, there is not much there to make a case that it refers to satan.
well that settles that. I can't disagree with scripture.
no where in scripture does it say they are the same..They are the same.
You're talking about satan now.. I'm talking about Lucifer. There is only 1 scripture mentioning Lucifer, and it is debated that the scripture is not talking about satan at all, but a corrupt king.. Since there is only 1 scripture referencing Lucifer, there is not much there to make a case that it refers to satan.
No offense beloved, but I will assume you are incorrect until you back up what you are saying with scripture.
no where in scripture does it say they are the same..
So, because I don't believe in what you believe I am confused? You are wrong, some people are destined for salvation and some others are destined for destruction. Each of these groups of people accept and desire their destiny (althogh the enemies of God would prefer to destroy God instead of going to hell). Here you have some verses which prove what I am saying: Acts 13:48, Romans 8:29-30, Ephesians 1:11, 1 Peter 2:8.
By the way, saying that this contradicts the traditions of the church means nothing. Augustine thought that enslaving people was permissible in this world? Do you agree with that too?
Lets see if this helps you.........Revelation 12:7-11 says....
"And there was WAR in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the DRAGON; and the DRAGON fought and his angels,
8. And prevailed NOT; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9. And the GREAT DRAGON was cast out, that OLD SERPENT, called the Devil, and Satan, which DECEIVES the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the ACCUSER (In the Greek, this is singular which means that the Dragon, Serpent and Satan are all the same person)of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11. And they OVER CAME him ( again SINGULAR)BY the blood of the Lamb, and BY the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."
I believe those verses should be adequate as Biblical proof!
St. Michael is somewhat unique.
His task is the defense of "all believers'. Quite a big job.
His name means "he who is like unto God", high praise indeed.
According to "tradition" (mainly Orthodox) there are nine "orders" of angels
(Virtues, Powers, Thrones, Dominions, etc) which scripture says very little about.
They number in the billions (or more).
One person asked an angel "how many there were" and the angel supposedly replied
"we number as the stars of Heaven". (which is not particularly helpful because "star of Heaven"
is a poetic reference to an angel anyway).
Great scriptures.. But no that is not Biblical proof for the name Lucifer. I see you underlined "called the devil, and Satan" IF he was called Lucifer then surely this scripture would of read like this "called the devil, lucifer, and satan" But, Lucifer is not satan so this scripture actually proves my point.
Great scriptures.. But no that is not Biblical proof for the name Lucifer. I see you underlined "called the devil, and Satan" IF he was called Lucifer then surely this scripture would of read like this "called the devil, lucifer, and satan" But, Lucifer is not satan so this scripture actually proves my point.
So, because I don't believe in what you believe I am confused? You are wrong, some people are destined for salvation and some others are destined for destruction.
I agree, but the cause is what is different as I see it in the scriptures. Destined does not equal causality for me. They are destined for destruction because God foreknew that these men with a will to make choices (like satan) would never repent, even after His many attempts to touch them and offer them (like Cain) a chance to go and do it right.
Can satan do good?
For salvation to have worked you would have to have been Christ when Jesus died on the cross. Jesus came bearing precious seed which was his Church which he carried in himself. The only way to be in Christ is God would have to have known before creation all those who would accept his salvation through his Son, then place them in Christ so every thing Jesus would do would be accreted to us since we were in him. We became righteous in the same way we became sinners. In Adam we became sinners in Christ we became righteous. Salvation was given to us before the world began because God knew those who would receive the Gospel by faith before the beginning of time.
2Ti 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Those who Calvinist leaning, (all is destined), how do you look at Philippians 2:12 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
I'm interested on your thoughts on the "work out your own salvation" and how it fits in the predestined camp.
God was not sorry he made mankind, he was expressing sorrow for what the people had done to themselves.I thought this would be a good discussion topic. We have free will. But God is omniscient. Yet He was sorry or regretted that He ever made mankind right before the Flood in Genesis 6:5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.”
Thoughts on how to reconcile God knowing ahead of time this would happen and yet regretting doing it?
I have some ideas on this and would like to see what other believers have revealed to them.
Other related scripture:
Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
Ephesians 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-- 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory.