The Testing Of Spirits
- Thread starter Silk
- Start date
Thanks for sharing, I'm checking it out. For those where video isn't convenient, it's also available as text/transcript, audio only, or download the entire thing if you don't want to stream it. http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/TM13-6/testing-the-spirits An excerpt
John MacArthur said:
Says the man who doesn't believe in the gifts of the Spirit... I love his teachings though, except this...
I dunnno. I can't help liking what he says is the real work of the HS: to lead us to Christ and sanction us in His Word (the Bible). Like Rav, I understood his attacks of Charismatics, and yet I thought his attack on Catholics as a whole, was unfair. On the other hand, formula insistence on what is nowadays considered the "gifts of the Spirit", I see as dangerous. I have been watching the Strange Fire Conference on YouTube. I think I was most moved by "A Deeper Healing", and (not sure of the title) "African Import of Charismatic Chaos". The whole series has kept me YouTube bound. Apparently there was a lot of controversy over Strange Fire. Not sure what about.
As someone who believes gifts of Spirit are operational today also, I thoroughly enjoyed Strange Fire conference. I have the book at my home.. Just don't find time to read!
I think he has a huge following from people who believe in gifts of Spirit.. He teaches so much truth that people don't mind about this contradicting belief.. Though he comes out so hard at this point, I still love hearing his messages!!
I'm only 1/2 way thru the 19 hour Strange Fire Conference. I got the book yesterday. What I have watched so far, has clarified my thinking and has a 1000 fold increased my respect for those who keep insisting that we read our bibles and seek to understand it under a biblical standard. The truth spoken here is undoubted, in my mind. I may nott agree 100% with all that is said, but for the most part, I find myself agreeing. It has caused me to see where I may have started going off the path in my thinking. I'm grateful for being led there.
Is it that he doesn't believe that any the gifts of the H Spirit are working now or that he believes that some are no longer globally and/or consistently needed? I believe I have the gift of helps (KJVese) and one other gift i am still pondering. I seriously doubt he would deny either of these gifts or many others. Doesn't make sense.
I don't agree with everything he said in the posts above, but then I don't agree with what I say at times.
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I don't agree with everything he said in the posts above, but then I don't agree with what I say at times.
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I think? MacArthur is saying that the foundational "gifts" are not experienced today but that the HS works individually, in different ways, to bring us closer to Christ and his way. He would not discount your help of others as not the work of the HS because it passes the "test".
Right, I haven't gotten through the whole Strange Fire series yet, but from what I've heard so far it doesn't seem like he's saying he doesn't believe in the gifts of the Spirit as a whole. It seems like he either believes what I think he called the 'signed' gifts such as speaking in tongues either ceased at some point and did not resume, and/or what is often attributed to be or called the manifestations of these gifts today are not genuine.
You are right.. I think there is no 100% cessassionist.. It is the miraculous gifts that cause all these debates.. Like speaking in tongues, prophesy, healings.. Gift of teaching, helping, etc are never debated..
I've prophesied, my wife has prophesied, my wife was healed, so the gifts DO exist today, that's my point. He's not experienced them so he doesn't believe in them. Those that have not experienced them split up the gifts as some are obtainable and others are not... Here's a list:
1 Corinthians 12:7-11 (KJV)
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
Manifestation: to make manifest or visible or known what has been hidden or unknown, to manifest, whether by words, or deeds, or in any other way
1 Corinthians 14:12 (KJV)
Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual [gifts], seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
These gifts are not just the natural events, like a wise man dishing out wisdom, but something only the Holy Spirit can tell you, like obtaining general information and the Spirit laying on you a level of understanding to act on that information. A word of knowledge is time sensitive for-the-moment information for someone or about something - not a prophecy, but an understanding that again can only come from the Holy Spirit. The rest are self explanatory, but tongues leave too many confused. There are three types of tongues:
#1 Speaking a known language understood by others where the speaker had never been educated in that language
#2 Speaking in an unknown tongue by any save the Spirit for yourself - the only gift that can be generated by the speaker by will
#3 Speaking in an unknown tongue for the edification of the Church with interpretation
1 Corinthians 12:7-11 (KJV)
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
Manifestation: to make manifest or visible or known what has been hidden or unknown, to manifest, whether by words, or deeds, or in any other way
1 Corinthians 14:12 (KJV)
Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual [gifts], seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
These gifts are not just the natural events, like a wise man dishing out wisdom, but something only the Holy Spirit can tell you, like obtaining general information and the Spirit laying on you a level of understanding to act on that information. A word of knowledge is time sensitive for-the-moment information for someone or about something - not a prophecy, but an understanding that again can only come from the Holy Spirit. The rest are self explanatory, but tongues leave too many confused. There are three types of tongues:
#1 Speaking a known language understood by others where the speaker had never been educated in that language
Acts 2:7-8 (KJV)
And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
#2 Speaking in an unknown tongue by any save the Spirit for yourself - the only gift that can be generated by the speaker by will
2 Timothy 1:6 (KJV)
Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.
1 Timothy 4:14 (KJV)
Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
Acts 19:6 (KJV)
And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Romans 8:26 (KJV)
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.
1 Timothy 4:14 (KJV)
Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
Acts 19:6 (KJV)
And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Romans 8:26 (KJV)
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
#3 Speaking in an unknown tongue for the edification of the Church with interpretation
1 Corinthians 14:5-6 (KJV)
I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
I hope this helps...I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
I believe that the HS can warn us, individually, to things that are going to happen in our lives. Does that make us prophets of God? I agree with the OT scripture or test of a true prophet. They are 100% accurate, they are living a moral life, and they say nothing that opposes the Word. As for speaking in tongues? Personally, I would be horrified if gibberish that I or anyone else in hearing didn't understand, came out of my mouth. I would question my sanity and thank the Lord that He knows me well enough not to give me this gift. I have been healed and attribute this to God. There was no laying on of hands and I still suffer constant pain. If the gifts edify and bring you closer to Christ, and bring glory to God, I have no reason to disbelieve that others today have been so gifted. When masses of people speak gobbedly gook, go into comatose trances, fall on the floor, writhe, groan and grunt, acting as drunkards - I see no glory to God.
Does anyone have any links to videos of the gifts of the Spirit being manifested? I've heard about them being manifested today but thinking back I'm not sure I've ever seen it so I am looking to learn more. 
The only ones I've seen have been the outlandish ones -- stuff that is really horrifying. Stuff that's embarrassing.Does anyone have any links to videos of the gifts of the Spirit being manifested? I've heard about them being manifested today but thinking back I'm not sure I've ever seen it so I am looking to learn more.
I'm gonna go with TezriLi on that. altho I did hear a clip of singing in tongues, that while it will never make the top 100 on Billboard, I found haunting. There are clips online if you google of the common speaking in tongues that are generally not pleasant to the ear. There are also film clips of healing, "psychic" surgery, etal. The strange fire conference series give some clips of current scenes in the Q&A video (ie; Hokey Pokey, and calling down fire, and "annointing").