The Testing Of Spirits

May 6, 2014
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I don't think anything on YouTube in this vein would be God-honouring. If one wants to witness or receive any of these manifestations, one only needs to ask God. that way, one won't be hoodwinked or imprinted by charlatans, or people with the agenda to discredit Holy Spirit's gifts.
 
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May 19, 2012
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You'd be surprised what you can find on YouTube. I don't discount that people have experienced "gifts" of the spirit but there does appear to be many claiming gifts of prophecy where the record on accuracy is dismal. MacArthur seems to me to genuinely have legitimate concerns about the over the top "Charismatics" and their emphasis on HS over Christ, Himself. I am watching the strange fire conference on YouTube for free and I am finding a lot of truth there. There is no demand for donations every 2 minutes and no one claiming that my problems are a result of not having enough faith. It is a "level ground floor at the foot of the cross" where all are loved by God, not just some who want to appear more favored.
 
Feb 2, 2014
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I hope, Abdicate, that you did not take my last post as a denial of any gifts you have experienced because I have a great deal of respect for your love of God and believe your word on what you say.
Not at all, but it is sad that you equate speaking in tongues with the holy rollers... Paul says:

1 Corinthians 14:40 (KJV)
Let all things be done decently and in order.

right after saying:

1 Corinthians 14:39 (KJV)
Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

As with anything in the Lord, there is order, not chaos.
 
Feb 2, 2014
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I'm gonna go with TezriLi on that. altho I did hear a clip of singing in tongues, that while it will never make the top 100 on Billboard, I found haunting. There are clips online if you google of the common speaking in tongues that are generally not pleasant to the ear. There are also film clips of healing, "psychic" surgery, etal. The strange fire conference series give some clips of current scenes in the Q&A video (ie; Hokey Pokey, and calling down fire, and "annointing").
Sure... the devil hijacks everything that is edifying so they church sees it as voodoo...

1 Corinthians 14:12 (KJV)
Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual [gifts], seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

Think of it like this: is there bad medicine? Certainly! Does that make the good medicine evil? Certainly NOT. So EVERYTHING must be filtered through the Holy Spirit in faith and if it isn't, then one suffers loss.

Romans 14:23b (KJV)
...for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.
 
May 19, 2012
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I agree that the HS should be a filter for all things, including reading and writing posts. Not sure what you mean by the devil hi-jacking, Ab, but I do believe that others have experienced "gifts of the Spirit." I am also certain that some claim them falsely. I have made it no secret that I believe we are coming on the "end of days" sooner, rather than later. I ask tho, honestly, who would hear a real prophet of God these days, with the almighty din of the numerous claims made today? I have been witness, thru my life, of many "miracles". I have felt the joyous "high" of being filled with the Spirit - so I don't even try to deny other's experience. And I don't deny my own. Religion is "big business" these days. I have to filter by what glorifies God and edifies everyone - not by anyone else's need to be recognized under this umbrella. I think MacArthur is right - test persons/spirits to see if they are of God - and anyone or thing that doesn't conform to scripture is not.
 
Feb 2, 2014
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Well, think about this as a war... we have the secret service not only to protect the President, but to catch counterfeit money. Why is that so important? Because if the world is flooded with counterfeit dollars, who could tell the real from the fake making the real useless. There are 108 full English bible translations, 41,000 denominations, so to a new born babe in Christ the question arises: which one is correct? This is clearly a tactic of the devil to dilute the truth. With this in mind, the devil knows what ideas in the scripture most HELP the Christian in their walk with God, so he would go out of his way to also dilute them as well. Meditation is super important, so he makes sure one of his false religions makes it’s their #1 point. Since the gifts of the Spirit only come through the Holy Spirit through meditation and prayer, make the life of a Christian too busy to meditate (voodoo word to some) and make the Christian impatient to wait on the movement of the Holy Spirit. You yourself have stated that you’d think yourself crazy if you spoke in an unknown tongue and what better way to help you with that than the devil making another religion whose almost sole purpose is to flop around on the ground speaking gibberish. That’s hijacking. All false religions have some foundational truth that’s been hijacked so the true meaning/reason is lost.

Theories and ideas have become the norm rather than the word of God. How many Christians believe, and confess, that the Old Testament is NOT for Christians? Yet ever story has a neon sign pointing to Jesus and His grace and truth, especially the Ten Commandments! But the Spirit helps too… ask almost any seasoned Christian to rattle off the correct order of the Ten Commandments (or just quote the 3rd or 4th right off) and you’ll find them struggling, yet you can ask any 5-year old to recite John 3:16 and they can! The Ten Commandments were only to point out the fact man cannot keep them and that we need John 3:16!

I don’t judge you and I’m sorry if you interpret my words that way, I’m just trying to point out religious junk, broaden everyone’s thinking, to inquire of the Holy Spirit if these things be true. When we realize that the word of God is for our benefit, a positive thing, then we can begin to understand the true freedom in Christ! God is content if one stays in the milk of the word of God, but is overjoyed when one of His moves on to perfection, being so in tuned to the Holy Spirit that they cease from sin. It’s such an important thing that Jesus says:

Rev 3:21 [KJV] To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

I hope this helps.
 
May 19, 2012
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What I meant by talking about entering the "end days" times, you would expect that God might reach out in guidance to believers because of the perilous period ahead. But isn't that what studying scrpture is supposed to be about? I don't speak in tongues, nor do I want something I don't understand. I come here to learn - to soak up and understand better. If I can pass along some hard learned lessons - great. I enjoy discussions and gaining new insights. I don't mind people disagreeing with me altho it troubles me when people bully up on others and make it a personal attack. I have a hard time understanding the purpose of speaking in tongues but that is not to say I don't believe true believers who have experienced it.
 
Feb 2, 2014
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Oh it's happening!! People just have to understand that the word of God is a photo album of spiritual events to whet out appetite, but it's a whole other thing to live them!

Joel 2:28-29 [KJV] 28 And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

As I stated before, there is one reason for tongues and three types of tongues. The main reason is edification of the Chruch.
 
May 19, 2012
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My last post was sent before I read your latest post. I don't feel you are judging me and really, it wouldn't matter if you were - as long as you understand what I said. I don't disagree with you and in fact, MacArthur appears to be saying the same thing. I wasn't sure what you meant by hijack but after your last post - I do. And I agree. MacArthur is saying that he believes the Charismatics are hijacking a thin veneer of bible verse to mislead many and it is dangerous. Aside from gifts, if the Word and Spirit are separated they don't conform to God's Word. And I have to agree.
 
May 19, 2012
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Sorry, I don't see any edification if the speaker nor any of the listeners understand what is being said.
 
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If I understand you correctly - I quite agree it is far worse than can be imagined.
 
Feb 2, 2014
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Sorry, I don't see any edification if the speaker nor any of the listeners understand what is being said.
Exactly what Paul said... if you saw that in my post. If there's no interpretor then they need to keep their mouth shut. But an imporant prayer is praying in tongues to remove the influence of the flesh in one's own prayer closet.

[Rom 8:26 KJV] 26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

So praying in the spirit (tongues) helps our prayers because they are not filled with fleshy things, but those things need to be spoken as speaking gives glory to God. If Jesus healed without speaking then who would have known. The very first thing God ever did was speak. The power of life and death are in the tongue. Speaking as though things that are not as though they were!

Rom 4:17 [KJV] (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, [even] God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Heb 11:1 [KJV] Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Even the word for cure in Hebrew litterally means speaking health!

Pro 15:4 [KJV] A wholesome tongue [is] a tree of life: but perverseness therein [is] a breach in the spirit.

מַרְפֵּא - the word for wholesome (marpe) means: waters, man, speak, authority. Rightly speaking in faith is more powerful than 1000 prayers!

John 7:38 [KJV] He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

If Jesus says that we will do more than He, shouldn't we be doing at the least what He did? That's my prayer...
 
May 19, 2012
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Ab - I have heard this explanation about praying in tongues before. I have no wish to argue with you about the gifts but I will say why I have a quandry about this. When Christ taught His followers to pray - nothing was said about praying in tongues. If what is meant is the HS is praying to God (presumably for the prayee) why would God being praying to Himself? (altho, YEAH that would be powerful, youbetcha). If you are speaking your prayers aloud - and don't understand what you are saying - how is that edifying to you, the prayee? And if you aren't saying the prayers aloud, does that mean you are thinking in tongues? Is typing in tongues coming next? If you just say, Our Father, who art in Heaven, Thy Will be done, Through Jesus Christ, Our Lord, Amen. Does that avoid fleshy things too? I don't know if your prayers are more powerful than mine, but I do pray in the Spirit, in English, with all my heart. I can respect that Speaking in Tongues, is real and spiritual - I am just explaining why I have a hard time getting my head around it. I guess my need to understand just outweighs any need to speak in Tongues, for me. Like so many blessings God has given me and I've tossed away, this is a gift that would be wasted on me. Unless....it was the kind the Disciples had, I speak English and everyone understands me in their own native tongue. I could use that. Nothing I like better than understanding.
 
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May 19, 2012
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I get grouchy because I suck at math and languages. I studied French for 5 years and if I started speaking lucid French out loud - I still wouldn't understand it. :) Type about whatever you like...just, yanno...not in tongues :p
 
Jun 2, 2014
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I am not good at languages -- biblically called "tongues" in English -- either, Silk. Terrible. I love the study of Hebrew, tolerated Greek. I use Hebrew daily, but I, like you, have more personal understanding and make myself better understood, etc. in English.

Further, I have felt the Presence of G-d so much more clearly, more vividly, while speaking in English. my "mother tongue."
 
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May 19, 2012
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Not sure if MacArthur says it in the OP video or not, but he asks: At the last supper, Jesus says one of you will betray and everyone asked, "Will it be me?" MacArthur wanted to know why they weren't all pointing at Judas - How could they be so blind? And I would answer: Because Jesus taught them well. Look first to your own imperfections, misunderstandings.
No one is more attracted to the "whistles & bells", the mysticism and supernatural than me because it hints and implies the awesomeness of God. Easy to be swept away in affirmations of Him. But God also created the humdrum physics and natural laws that make His world/universe and us work. And sometimes I forget that this is the greater miracle.
 
Jun 26, 2014
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Silk, I found the video valuable as well... especially the foundational truth
that the Holy Spirit's sole focus is to reveal Jesus and keep Him central.
 
May 19, 2012
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You know, Nanon? I came to this forum over 2 yrs. ago, not really understanding the HS. Raised Methodist, we called this Holy Ghost. My mother, who truly loved God, picked the Methodists because the pastor in Mass. was spectatular. We moved to NY, and the pastors were much less than the Rev. Quinn. And we didn't know the Methodists didn't hold with card playing, dance, (or alcohol), until we tried to hold my second oldest brother's wedding reception in a Methodist hall. After God, my mother loved her family, cards, and dancing. Any time there were 4 of us together, she wanted to play pinochile. At any rate, when I came here, I'd had only one conversation with God in 6o years but here, everyone seemed to talk with God and get answers, all the time. So I learned. If God, the Father, Jesus, the son, and the HS, were all the same, I saw no harm in concentrating on the HS, whom I had neglected/misunderstood anways. I should have known I had taken it too far, when my HS disagreed with your (rhetorical) HS because if it is the HS, it would not cause us to disagree, it is the same Spirit and it's work is to bring us closer with Christ, God, and each other. So, I have learned again.
 
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May 6, 2014
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You'd be surprised what you can find on YouTube.
Yes, I am, continually...and shocked. It is not a wise thing for a person to access YouTube videos to gain a spiritual understanding of Holy Spirit. He needs the word of God, and good, solid teaching from gifted teachers that God has actually placed in the life of a seeking person.
 
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