If you actually watched MacArthur, you might see where he answers all arguments with in context scripture, that holds that you do yourself no harm to test spirits/persons who would lead you wrong. The last 2 episodes are an appeal to charismatics and his correction is out of love for God and humanity. I watched hours of video of those he opposes and as far as I can see, he is right.
The Testing Of Spirits
- Thread starter Silk
- Start date
Anyone can twist the scriptures..but real biblical Power in the Holy Spirit is what makes a true minister. To have a ministry that points the finger and finds fault is not evidence of anything. Satan means the (accuser) and his ministers are experts at accusing others in the name of righteousness. I have heard this man and his empty words, religion of man is in large part is just the carnal mind attempting to replace the power and authority of the Holy Spirit in the church. These men will answer for every idle word they have spoken against the Holy Spirit and the truth on judgment Day...and I am thankful I will have no part in the judgment that will come upon such people.
I was searching for this and found it.. A refreshing read.. Not sure if you like work of Charles Spurgeon.. I find the style of language a little difficult.. But worth a read..Well you are very aware of the scriptures Rav...Where do you want to start? I would start with the scripture I quoted above...and have many more to draw from to make the point upon the work and Power Of God's Spirit.
Co 2:4 nd my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
Here Paul makes a CLEAR contrast between his ministry that stood in the power of God and those who had words but no power.
http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0030.htm
This is what I was eluding to.. No doubt Holy Spirit only empowers a person.. Now there are errors on both Charismatics and Reformed groups.. No one is 100% right.. MacArthur does not condemn someone like John Piper or Wayne Grudem.. He does not agree with them theologically.. But that does not mean, he goes about condemning them.. The question raised in the conference is, what is being done about the abuses within Charismatic circle..
The abuses are done in the name of Holy Spirit.. We claim the abuses are minor.. But I doubt if that is the truth.. I think abuses are major and the truth is preached so little within Charismatic circle.. the problem is not in disagreement.. The problem is in controlling the abuse.. Just because they claim things in the name of Holy Spirit, it does not become truth..
Michael Brown is someone whom I respect a lot.. When this strange fire conference just got over, Justin Peters (who was a speaker at strange fire conference) called up to his radio talk show.. He openly confronted him.. Justin also respects Brown.. But the question was, why Brown would endorse Benny Hinn.. Simply question!
I don't think he denies the power of Holy Spirit in anyway.. I think the only point is Power of Holy Spirit is not quantified by number of people in the Church or number of healings or number of prophecies.. The power of Holy Spirit is Power of God himself.. It would always be the glory of His name..
I don't know if you have seen John MacArthur appearing in Larry King shows in CNN.. And compare that with Joel Osteen on CNN.. You will see how he stood for the Gospel and truth.. How was he able to witness for Jesus Christ?
I hear lot of his messages.. He does deliver the truth.. I think because he points out Charismatic abuses a lot, we cannot claim him to be a false preacher.. Just because he is wrong about operation of spiritual gifts today does not make every continuationist right
Rav I don't care about these people..who likes and agrees with who has no bearing on me! I know the power of God and the scriptures. all this stuff about Mcauther and this fire and that is just the work of satan to confuse the truth. They are a lot of nuts and flakes in the world and a lot of dead and powerless men who claim to speak for God. The real is real, no matter how much the phony is presented to cast doubt upon it. The safe place is in the scriptures, and in the confidence of Gods Power.
How can a man with no power in the Spirit be an expert on the The Power of God? It cannot be!I don't think he denies the power of Holy Spirit in anyway.. I think the only point is Power of Holy Spirit is not quantified by number of people in the Church or number of healings or number of prophecies.. The power of Holy Spirit is Power of God himself.. It would always be the glory of His name..
I don't know if you have seen John MacArthur appearing in Larry King shows in CNN.. And compare that with Joel Osteen on CNN.. You will see how he stood for the Gospel and truth.. How was he able to witness for Jesus Christ?
I hear lot of his messages.. He does deliver the truth.. I think because he points out Charismatic abuses a lot, we cannot claim him to be a false preacher.. Just because he is wrong about operation of spiritual gifts today does not make every continuationist right
Well, I think it is not edifying to argue or even debate about another man
That has been a learning for me from this forum!!Leaving this aside, I think the topic of testing of spirits is something that we can study in a deep way.. I think this is an excellent topic!! How are we to test the spirits? let's do that without name calling
I always wondered about one particular verse.. Mathew 24:23 - Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him.
What is the meaning of this verse? I don't think anyone has made that claim yet? How are we to interpret this? I strongly believe this goes along with testing spirits..
Well you and others want to present this man as some authority, and justify his attacks upon others? So its just wrong to now suggest he cannot be challenged as to his ability to know the truth of these matters. Surely Rav, you can see that? I believe in testing the Spirits, but a man who does not know the Holy Spirit and its power cannot judge these things and should not be upheld as some authority on this issue.Well, I think it is not edifying to argue or even debate about another man
Leaving this aside, I think the topic of testing of spirits is something that we can study in a deep way.. I think this is an excellent topic!! How are we to test the spirits? let's do that without name calling
I always wondered about one particular verse.. Mathew 24:23 - Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him.
What is the meaning of this verse? I don't think anyone has made that claim yet? How are we to interpret this? I strongly believe this goes along with testing spirits..
If you watched the video in the OP - this has solely to do with "testing the spirits/persons" apt to mislead you from scripture. And I do count MacArthur as an "authority" as he bases his theology on scripture (being a seminarian graduate and the president of a seminary, as well as being a Pastor to Grace to You Church). In one thing do I agree with Mitspa - I have no problem debating about MacArthur, but so far there has been no precise scripture to rebut his stances. Which in any event, would be impossible if you don't know what the man is actually saying. If you know what is behind his stance, biblically/scripturally on cessationism - if not you are only saying your stance is based on I know because I know. In those cases, I agree with you, Rav, leave MacArthur out of it - it is easier to just restate his arguments. Because MacArthur is not remiss here. Altho out of context scripture is used to show a point when it doesn't should just be pointed out or tested. I learned about MacArthur on this forum - only a few weeks ago. But then I enjoy learning on this forum. It can be extremely difficult at times.
What stance is needed to defeat a man who has no power? He has no power, only words! So no one should listen to him about the power of God...its pretty simple and Paul makes a simple statement about such people.
1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Ga 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Not to mention that this fellow is a legalist and his doctrines on the gospel itself is based in error.
This kind of complaint about brothers and sisters in Christ is exactly the thing that goes against the grain. Do you know what these people do with the money that God overflowingly blesses them with? It is the spirit of envy at work in the body of Christ that speaks ill of and is appalled by others with burgeoning ministries. There are many precious promises in God's word to those who serve God, and many of them are about wealth and abundance. Many murmur and complain about those who are on the receiving end of these promises, but fail to see the sacrifice that these people have been willing to make in their lives to serve God with such abandon.
Frankly, watching hours of video that is geared to denigrating other servants of God is a waste of time and not time used well in service of our King.
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The difference is exceedingly clear - MacArthur relies on God's Word, which he feels is inerrant and complete. He doesn't start statements like I know God's power - he says God's Word says this here, here and here, and cross referenced here, there and everywhere. He doesn't start statements with "My Holy Spirit told me, God told just me, my HS disagrees with yours and I speak in tongues AND pray in tongues, so forget any scriptural basis. Paul saying God has power does not verify He transferred any to the speaker. It IS God that does healing - not man. It is God's power not ANY man's or woman's. And Paul they tell me WAS an Apostle. Do you believe anyone can claim that status now????
We do know where this $$ goes that's why Jim Baker went to jail and BTW, only someone who has too much and gives not to the poor has an air conditioned dog house and then keeps the dog in the main house.. Wasn't it Copeland who claimed to collect millions for Haiti and didn't deliver any monies???? I don't care if you want to keep your tushy cushy but stop lying!!!!!!!!!! Envy??? Try just morally wrong to spend donations on the corner hooker.
If he denies the power of the Holy Spirit working in and through a Christian's life, then he has no authority in Christ to speak to me about anything.
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It's all envy, and the accusational pointing of fingers, meddling in people's business where no one knows it.
Just goes to show you - MacArthur does say " power of the Holy Spirit working in and through a Christian's life" does indeed happen but I grant you it's hard to learn when you know everything already. Which apparently includes knowing what MacArthur says without knowing what he actually says.
When a person humbles Himself before the Lord and submits to the baptism of Holy Spirit, as taught in God's word, it isn't hard to learn. God downloads right into our spirits all things, all knowledge and all blessings. It is up to us to appropriate all blessings into our souls and enjoy the blessings in the physical realm.
Ephesians 1:3 (NLT)
Spiritual Blessings
All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ.
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What? swaggart is the same in his rejection of the Holy Spirit as Macauther is...I think you should better understand this issue before you try to sling mud upon others? And Baker does not represent the Full Gospel aspect either? See this is a common and wicked practice, to try to defeat the truth through such ungodly ways.
Slip sliding away...try staying on topic. I used Swaggert, Baker, and Copeland as examples who's mistakes and errors were well aired by the world - believers and unbelievers alike. It's called telling the truth as opposed to lies but if you want to call it mud slinging - go ahead but be aware that the term implies slinging lies and that just ain't the truth. They have a new series on ID called "Sinister Ministers" 2 "men of God" per episode telling everyone all about religious leaders. It's a series - so they will have a season 2 and 3 (perhaps) without running out of fodder. This is something reflects no glory to God. And hiding it doesn't reflect any either.