Doctrinal Authority

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Don't you think that...."Actually, read all of Romans....as a start." is really condescending???

Do you really think that myself and the others here have not read Romans. Some of us have actually written commentaries and study guides on Romans my sister.

Have you never read or re-read a passage, chapter or entire book in the Word more than once? I did not mean that statement as condescending. As a teacher myself, I was merely saying re-read the book of Romans for further revelation from the Spirit on these issues we were studying. Sorry if you were offended.
 
I can not agree with you sister. You are giving opinions and clearly not a Biblical basis for truth.

Jn. 3:3 as you quoted is absolutely correct and if one is born again HE CAN SEE the Kingdom of God. Now for CONTEXT.......Peter, James and John did see the kingdom of God as explained in Mark 9:1-9 WHICH WAS BEFORE PENTECOST!!!

Therefore, the proper CONTEXT of John 3:3 and 3:7 shows being born again equals the saving faith in Jesus mentioned in John 3:16.
So in light of that the question now is, could anyone believe on Jesus before Pentecost? Again, BIBLE answer is YES!. People were forgiven, saved and received everlasting life before the cross and before Pentecost. Please read and consider Lk. 7:50; 19:9.

Then secondly, please know the disciples did receive the Spirit when Jesus breathed on them BEFORE Pentecost in Jn. 20:22, which also tends to disrupt the theology of some! Acts 1:8 is the vital point about Pentecost.
Of course people could believe on Jesus before Pentacost. But it was impossible to be born again before Pentacost because Jesus had not yet finished His course. Jesus was the "first" new creature of many brethren.
 
Different dispensations.
The old patriarchs went to what scripture calls paradise or Abraham’s bosom to wait upon their redeemer...Christ released them when He rose by the power of the Holy Spirit from hell. They had to wait until redemption was accomplished by Jesus.

And that redemption was, of course, accomplished before "the foundation of the world," right? Rev 13:8

Alright, so let's see if I've got it now! So before, in a previous "dispensation," forgiveness of sins through faith was good enough, then they just had to die and wait. But in this new "dispensation," we still need to have faith to be forgiven, but now just forgiveness alone isn't good enough, Jesus came to add on some further requirements to make it more difficult to be saved than it used to be?
 
I can't find a comment where I talked about a "logical system of salvation"? If you show me where the comment it is, I might be able to have some more context for what I would have meant by that.
Well it seems now
My spiritual location: ask me anything you want. (I didn't think it was a loaded question!)
It was for me. Reasons for it.
I can tell you I don't understand that sentence! You use terms that aren't in the Bible, like "our soul has usurped authority over the Christ in us and has made a choice to sin." I can't find any scriptures that might give me some clues about what you might mean by that. It might make it easier for us to understand what you mean if you just use terms from scripture to explain it. Like, is "my soul" not the same thing as "me?" Wouldn't it just be simpler to say that we sin when "we don't submit to Christ in us, and we make a choice to sin"? If you said that, I'd agree. The "soul" business is the hang up, perhaps?

I can't find a comment where I talked about a "logical system of salvation"? If you show me where the comment it is, I might be able to have some more context for what I would have meant by that.



Is this approval that comes from "study" a different type of approval than the one described in, say Romans 4:7-8, or, say, Acts 10:34-35?
Somewhere you were talking about me having a logical system of salvation. It would have been more understandable to me if you used terms that are in the bible. It might make it easier for us to understand what you mean.
 
And that redemption was, of course, accomplished before "the foundation of the world," right? Rev 13:8

Alright, so let's see if I've got it now! So before, in a previous "dispensation," forgiveness of sins through faith was good enough, then they just had to die and wait. But in this new "dispensation," we still need to have faith to be forgiven, but now just forgiveness alone isn't good enough, Jesus came to add on some further requirements to make it more difficult to be saved than it used to be?

I have no idea where you got that explanation but not from me. What are these further requirements you speak of?
 
Somewhere you were talking about me having a logical system of salvation. It would have been more understandable to me if you used terms that are in the bible. It might make it easier for us to understand what you mean.

Are you referring to this?
"It seems to me (and this is just a suggestion, not an accusation), you've tried to work out a logical system that tries to explain how we can still be tempted even though our old nature/desires/affections have been crucified with Christ..."

What I meant by "logical system" is that you've inferred a concept that the Bible doesn't directly teach. Like if I ask you to find the verse that talks about how we sin when "our soul has usurped authority over the Christ in us and has made a choice to sin," it isn't there. You've worked that concept out on your own based on the way you understand other scriptures.
 
I have no idea where you got that explanation but not from me. What are these further requirements you speak of?
Roads:
What does Rev. 13:9 have to do with this discussion or was that meant for someone else?
Again, what are these requirements for salvation that you speak of?
 
Roads:
What does Rev. 13:9 have to do with this discussion or was that meant for someone else?
Again, what are these requirements for salvation that you speak of?

Rev 13:8, sorry:)

Also, that's a great question! Besides the forgiveness of sins, is there any other requirement for salvation?
 
Are you referring to this?
"It seems to me (and this is just a suggestion, not an accusation), you've tried to work out a logical system that tries to explain how we can still be tempted even though our old nature/desires/affections have been crucified with Christ..."

What I meant by "logical system" is that you've inferred a concept that the Bible doesn't directly teach. Like if I ask you to find the verse that talks about how we sin when "our soul has usurped authority over the Christ in us and has made a choice to sin," it isn't there. You've worked that concept out on your own based on the way you understand other scriptures.
Let's start here:
The first man Adam was a “living soul.” What does this mean? Well, when God created Adam’s body it was just a lump of clay wasn't it? It had no life in it. That in itself is a very important point. The body without the soul is lifeless. Thus, it has no wants, likes or dislikes, and neither feelings of pain or pleasure. The soul was the master of the flesh. He is the life that is expressed through the flesh. The body is the temple of the soul. It allows the soul to live in this world. And. it is the soul that must give an account for the deeds done in the flesh.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. KJV

Gen. 2:7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. New American Standard Bible

Leviticus 5:4 Or if a soul swear, pronouncing with his lips to do evil, or to do good, whatsoever it be that a man shall pronounce with an oath, and it be hid from him; when he knoweth of it, then he shall be guilty in one of these.

How does a SOUL SWEAR? He does so with the lips of his body. But the soul is judged as guilty.

Leviticus 5:15 If a soul commit a trespass, and sin through ignorance, in the holy things of the LORD; then he shall bring for his trespass unto the LORD a ram without blemish out of the flocks,

How does the soul sin? He does so by using his body to disobey God.
 
We do not struggle with any sin or flesh when we walk in the spirit which takes mortifying the flesh and obedience to the Holy Spirit in us. It seems you do not read the part that I have said now twice. It takes "by CHOICE", obedience to the Spirit. Submission to the Spirit - to Christ in us. If we have any struggle with sin, it is because we choose to walk according to the flesh and not according to the Spirit. That is a choice.

Did Jesus ever struggle against sin? He was filled with the Holy Spirit, and led by him at all times. What was Jesus struggling against in the garden of Gethsemane to the point of shedding blood?

Heb 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
 
Rev 13:8, sorry:)

Also, that's a great question! Besides the forgiveness of sins, is there any other requirement for salvation?
Romans 10: 9-10
9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
 
Romans 10: 9-10
9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

So, I noticed you've emboldened and underlined some text. What am I meant to notice?
 
Did Jesus ever struggle against sin? He was filled with the Holy Spirit, and led by him at all times. What was Jesus struggling against in the garden of Gethsemane to the point of shedding blood?

Heb 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
What I mean was that when you are walking in the Spirit, you cannot sin and gratify flesh.
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. Galations 5:16
Walking in the Spirit means obeying God all the time in all things. Of course there will be times of crucifying or mortifying the flesh in order to stay in the Spirit. We can always walk in the Spirit if we obey the Father in all things, because He has already endured the world and its temptations. He is our helper and our strength.

Hebrews 2:18
Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.
 
So, I noticed you've emboldened and underlined some text. What am I meant to notice?
The emboldened ones are the requirements. But they are not my requirements, but the Father's requirements. It is the Word speaking. No terms or unfamiliar wordage.
:ROFLMAO:
 
Romans 10: 9-10
9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

The emboldened ones are the requirements. But they are not my requirements, but the Father's requirements. It is the Word speaking. No terms or unfamiliar wordage.
:ROFLMAO:

They are the requirements for salvation in addition to the forgiveness of sins?
Or they are the requirements for the forgiveness of sins?
 
They are the requirements for salvation in addition to the forgiveness of sins?
Or they are the requirements for the forgiveness of sins?
As it says in the scripture. Requirements for salvation.

Romans 10: 9-10
9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
 
As it says in the scripture. Requirements for salvation.

Romans 10: 9-10
9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Alright, well, I know what I believe that passage means. What I was asking is what you think it means.
 
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