Bible exercise - Can a person be saved and not have the Holy Spirit?
Please include scripture with posts.
Please include scripture with posts.
Saved & Holy Spirit
- Thread starter Where is the Messiah
- Start date
Trick question
Acts 19:2 (KJV)
He is the earnest (downpayment) of our salvation:
Ephesians 1:13-14 (KJV)
So there is definitely a duality to the Holy Spirit in a Christian's life. One is our sealing of salvation. The other is in the power of God manifested here on earth. He is the same Spirit by which Jesus did all He did as man and the Spirit we too are to live by to do more than Jesus did.
Does this answer your question?
Acts 19:2 (KJV)
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
He is the earnest (downpayment) of our salvation:
Ephesians 1:13-14 (KJV)
In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
So there is definitely a duality to the Holy Spirit in a Christian's life. One is our sealing of salvation. The other is in the power of God manifested here on earth. He is the same Spirit by which Jesus did all He did as man and the Spirit we too are to live by to do more than Jesus did.
Does this answer your question?
Trick question
Acts 19:2 (KJV)
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
He is the earnest (downpayment) of our salvation:
Ephesians 1:13-14 (KJV)
In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
So there is definitely a duality to the Holy Spirit in a Christian's life. One is our sealing of salvation. The other is in the power of God manifested here on earth. He is the same Spirit by which Jesus did all He did as man and the Spirit we too are to live by to do more than Jesus did.
Does this answer your question?
Ha, those were actually some of the versus I was reading before I posted.
So for the disciples that said they had not heard of the Holy Spirit in this particular passage- Were they saved and didn't have Holy spirit? Were they saved and didn't know they had the Holy Spirit? Or were they not saved until they received the Holy Spirit.
Since the Holy Spirit is the seal on a person, He is in that person for their salvation. At the same time, they didn't yet have the baptism of the Holy Spirit which is what Jesus received in the Jordan, and by Him has power to do the power of God. One is of the sealed soul the other is into the body to be manifested. Read what happened when He entered their body:
Acts 19:5-6 (KJV)
When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
#1 Sealing of the Soul as His
#2 Filling the body with the Holy Spirit for manifestation of power
This will happen as the last testimony to the world just before the rapture: Joel 2:28-32. Pentecost was just a foreshadow of what's to come. And when all flesh receive the Spirit no one will have an excuse to not believe, but when they reject, He will leave taking the faithful with Him.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
No one can be a Christian without having the Holy Spirit.
Joh 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
Jesus equates the new birth as a "spring of water" springing up into "everlasting life".
Then Jesus equates receiving the Holy Spirit as a "river of living water flowing out of that person"
This infilling hast to be received by the one who believes.
Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
There is a "huge" difference between a spring of water and a river flowing. One springs up, and the other flows out.
No one can be a Christian without having the Holy Spirit.
Joh 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
Jesus equates the new birth as a "spring of water" springing up into "everlasting life".
Then Jesus equates receiving the Holy Spirit as a "river of living water flowing out of that person"
This infilling hast to be received by the one who believes.
Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
There is a "huge" difference between a spring of water and a river flowing. One springs up, and the other flows out.
Saved no mention of baptism of Holy Spirit
Rom 10 9-10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
These had come to believe and were baptized in the name of Jesus Ie saved as Romans 10 just told us Then Peter and John laid Hands that they may receive
Acts 8 14-18
14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
This Scripture says The father will give Holy Spirit to His children. We became His children when we professed with out mouth and believed in our heart
Luke 7:13
13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your l]">[l]heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”
Yes we can be saved without receiving Holy Spirit
Rom 10 9-10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
These had come to believe and were baptized in the name of Jesus Ie saved as Romans 10 just told us Then Peter and John laid Hands that they may receive
Acts 8 14-18
14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
This Scripture says The father will give Holy Spirit to His children. We became His children when we professed with out mouth and believed in our heart
Luke 7:13
13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your l]">[l]heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”
Yes we can be saved without receiving Holy Spirit
1Peter1:23 tells us
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God. which liveth and abideth for ever.
John 3:5-6 tells us
5....Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he can NOT enter into the kingdom of God.
6....That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit.
Looks Like to me that you are NOT born again with out being Born of the Spirit.
I mean you either are a natural man or a Born again Man.....How can a Born AGAIN man be not of the Spirit of God ? He can't !!
Have a very Blessed day
Jim
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God. which liveth and abideth for ever.
John 3:5-6 tells us
5....Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he can NOT enter into the kingdom of God.
6....That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit.
Looks Like to me that you are NOT born again with out being Born of the Spirit.
I mean you either are a natural man or a Born again Man.....How can a Born AGAIN man be not of the Spirit of God ? He can't !!
Have a very Blessed day
Jim
Acts 5: 32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”
You can be saved but then not be obedient. In this we push the Holy Spirit out of our lives.
Multiple places in Acts, disciples were "filled with the Holy Spirit" when preaching. That presupposes that sometimes they were not "filled". So the Spirit does move based on when we need Him and are obedient.
Stephen was also described in Acts 6 and 7 as being full of the Holy Spirit.
I think we get the Holy Spirit as a seal when we believe and are saved. Kinda like being pregnant. Either you are or you aren't. After you are pregnant, then it becomes a matter of how pregnant you are. In the same way we do have the Holy Spirit the moment we believe, but then we must allow it to grow and fill our spirit with His power.
You can be saved but then not be obedient. In this we push the Holy Spirit out of our lives.
Multiple places in Acts, disciples were "filled with the Holy Spirit" when preaching. That presupposes that sometimes they were not "filled". So the Spirit does move based on when we need Him and are obedient.
Stephen was also described in Acts 6 and 7 as being full of the Holy Spirit.
I think we get the Holy Spirit as a seal when we believe and are saved. Kinda like being pregnant. Either you are or you aren't. After you are pregnant, then it becomes a matter of how pregnant you are. In the same way we do have the Holy Spirit the moment we believe, but then we must allow it to grow and fill our spirit with His power.
Being "born of the Spirit" and being "filled with the Spirit" are two separate things, however the hose hold of "Cornelius" received the Word of God, were saved, then immediately were filled with the Holy Spirit. I believe it depends on the teaching being brought forth weather salvation, and the baptism happen at nearly the same time.
ACTS 11:11-15
11 And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I
was, sent from Caesa area unto me.
12 And the spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren
accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house. ...
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said
unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be SAVED.
15 And as I [Peter] began to speak, THE HOLY GHOST FELL ON THEM, as on us at the
beginning.
Peter had to have mentioned the way of salvation, and receiving the Holy Ghost in his teaching to these people.
ACTS 11:11-15
11 And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I
was, sent from Caesa area unto me.
12 And the spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren
accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house. ...
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said
unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be SAVED.
15 And as I [Peter] began to speak, THE HOLY GHOST FELL ON THEM, as on us at the
beginning.
Peter had to have mentioned the way of salvation, and receiving the Holy Ghost in his teaching to these people.
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Bible exercise - Can a person be saved and not have the Holy Spirit?
Please include scripture with posts.
2 Corth. 5:17.........
"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."
The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is an act of God whereby the believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. The presence of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer identifies him as a member of the Body of Christ, having been indwelt by the Holy Spirit and having the New Nature. Publicly the believer's changed life identifies him as Christian.
It is my understanding that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit occurs, according to the Bible, at the time of salvation.
Acts 2:38, says............"
"Then Peter said to them, Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
Peter had just preached unto them Christ, proclaiming that Jesus was the Messiah. This was the invitation. Peter urged them to repent of their sins. He continues by telling them to also be baptized because they repented. He says if they receive Christ, they would receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Verse 41 records that they who received Christ were baptized the same day.
Mark 16:17-18 (KJV)
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Glomung
Account Closed
You know anybody who can actually do those things?
My wife was healed by someone she met only 30 seconds earlier and they didn't speak the same language. I know because I introduced them to one another and I had to translate. I didn't even know my fiance at the time had a chronic condition. She never said a word to me and they had never met before because she was Spain, they were Americans, and we were stationed in Italy. Not only did my friend hear from the Lord of her condition, but prayed for her and she got healed. I don't expect you to believe me, nor do I blame you, I would not have either had I not been present to witness it. And I consider myself one who believes in this "stuff".
Glomung
Account Closed
I do not doubt you. In my experience those who are truly "servants of God" are rare. As are, in my opinion, those who actually are indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
Lots of folks talk the talk, but very few walk the walk.
I think if we stick to the original question alone, this would make a very fine discussion.. but often these topics go into a debate about of Baptism of Holy Spirit.. Which I think is not the intend here..Bible exercise - Can a person be saved and not have the Holy Spirit?
Please include scripture with posts.
I don't have much to add apart from what everyone else have quoted.. Some relevant scriptures which shows that Holy Spirit is the down payment..
Ephesians 1 - And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own[d] by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago. 14 The Spirit is God’s guarantee that he will give us the inheritance he promised and that he has purchased us to be his own people. He did this so we would praise and glorify him
1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit
2 Corinthians 1:21-22 - Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge
But one thing that always puzzles.. How OT people were saved? If we are saved through faith, how about OT people? Were they saved through faith? If so, faith on what or whom? Did they have indwelling of Holy Spirit?
The same way we are saved, the shed blood of Jesus Christ. They had a faith given to them by the Spirit of God similar to ours, although they did not know the exact name of the one God would send.
We are to always look at the OT through the revelations and truths found in the NT. A person in the NT is saved and has faith in God because Jesus died for them. Since his payment was an eternal one, he also paid for the sheep who lived before he came, those who were given a faith similar to ours, the chosen and elect of God, his Holy nation Israel.
One scripture I know well is :
1 Samuel 16:
13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers; and the Spirit of the Lord came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel arose and went to Ramah. 14 But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and a distressing spirit from the Lord troubled him.
It is interesting that John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit from birth, and he was the one who recognized Jesus as the lamb of God who came to take away the sins of the world. That was a huge revelation by the Spirit of God to him. John lived under the old testament. Later we find John while in prison, began to doubt weather or not Jesus really was the Christ!! So he sent his followers to ask Jesus if he really was the one, or should they look for another.
I think this shows us that the old testament saints only had the Holy Spirit on a temporarily basses, unlike us, the Holy Spirit dwells within us for ever, and he will never leave us!!
Remember Jesus said that you do not put new wine in old wine skins, you only put new wine in new wine skins. The new birth is making one a new wine skin whereby being able to hold the Holy Spirit for ever.