Food for thought
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I guess for myself God made clear evidence that he is God in me and I worship God knowing that he is God Almighty the source of all that is good, having any value, our healer, our guide, our source of great strength, our place of safety, our provider, ever present source of help, our comforter and so much more.
Today, I don't want to live another moment without God. So I worship God for bringing this understanding so that I can come to know who and what he is.
Today, I don't want to live another moment without God. So I worship God for bringing this understanding so that I can come to know who and what he is.
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If we worship God or love Him because of what He has done, then we fall into the error of deception.
Praise for the Lord stems out of love for Him. Real love for Him is more than loving Him for what He can do for us. Just as we should not have a relationship with someone solely to benefit from them, we should not claim to have a relationship with the Lord if the only reason we love Him is to get something from Him. If we only praise Him for what He can or has done, are we not saying that? If we never praise God for His character, for the core of who He is, how are we showing our love for Him?
Worshipping God to get something from Him is IMHO one of the reasons the church has been on the decalin now for 50 years. We...people bought into the "Name it and claim it" nonesense from TV religious people, and then when we did not get what we wanted we said......see ya later God!
Alright good stuff.
Then you would still worship God even if you knew He would cast you off at the end?
Or one better.
If you knew you were in the wrong but you also knew that God wanted you to stay in the wrong your heart's desire would be to stay in the wrong.
'Not shooting at you just pursuing the concept'.
In worship, can we separate the two?
As finite beings, can we even begin to grasp the infinite, unless He first 'does something' (become incarnate).
Romans 11:1-2........
“I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,”
Deut. 4:31...........
"For the Lord will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance".
God can not and will not cast off those who know in Christ!
Now for your other question..........
"If you knew you were in the wrong but you also knew that God wanted you to stay in the wrong your heart's desire would be to stay in the wrong."
That is a highly philosophical question.
2 Corth. 1:8-9............
"For we do not want you to be unaware, brothers, of the affliction we experienced in Asia. For we were so utterly burdened beyond our strength that we despaired of life itself. Indeed, we felt that we had received the sentence of death. But that was to make us rely not on ourselves but on God who raises the dead."
I am not sure how I could be wrong and God also knew I was wrong would work. IMHO we are always working to come to God's point of view and God's point of view is always the right one to have.
I would say this to you though, we are not meant to win all the time. In fact the best way of learning to do anything is to fail. Now that does not speak to be "in the wrong" because that is a very ambiguous question to start with. The point is that sometimes God has to run us into a ditch to free us from ourself. The self-sufficient person does not need God. It is a deceptive and tempting approach to life that does not work.
Paul was right when he said in Philippians 4:13...........
"I can do all things through him who strengthens me."
IMO......NO! One of the reasons the lost man does not come to Christ is that he can not grasp infinity!
Most people do not buy life insurance when young and it is cheap is because they can not grasp that in 60 years or there abouts they will die. They when they do get to be 80 or so......it is too late and too expensive to buy it!
That's why God became man. But if God had not become man, we would have been lost under the weight of endless theologies and philosophies about God. He will not come to Christ lest his deeds be exposed. (Jn 3:20)
They can grasp it, they just don't want to face it.
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I just do not think that is the case brother. I have been preaching about eternity for 50 years and to tell you the truth, I can not grasp the idea of eternity myself.
Our brains are just not equipped to deal with an infinite number. O, we say we are but are we really....I do not think so.
Again, that's why the Infinite had to take on our finite humanity.
John 1:18 (KJV) No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
John 1:18 (NASB) No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
Yes sir...I got it.
I am only saying that we can use infinity in a sentence and even an equation. We know what it means, by definition. But IMHO, we cannot imagine it, nor fully contain it, any more than we can comprehend the size of the universe.
That's right, in mathematics they have a mistaken expression called 'approaching infinity'
It is impossible for finite numbers to approach infinity as they can go on forever and never be closer to infinity than the number 3 or 4.
You can always add 1 to the largest known number and you will still be in the realm of the finite.
It takes the Infinite to reach down to the finite (God to man as man) for there to be any beginning comprehension.
I think you guys are doing a pretty good job of talking about it without coming right out and saying it.
Talking about infinite and not being able to put a handle on it because we need a reference concept. What I'm getting at is monotheism. St. John says 'In the beginning' so when does eternity have a being?
The Word was God's expression of Himself...
Also in regard to the universe, it is not infinite because it is a creation.
If it was infinite would it not be eternal...?
Talking about infinite and not being able to put a handle on it because we need a reference concept. What I'm getting at is monotheism. St. John says 'In the beginning' so when does eternity have a being?
The Word was God's expression of Himself...
Also in regard to the universe, it is not infinite because it is a creation.
If it was infinite would it not be eternal...?
Could you please rephrase that with maybe one or two points at a time?
Not really, I see it more at the level of importance of a crossword puzzle…but fun to do.
Getting to know God IMO has less to do with infinity and everything to do with who God is. God is almighty, creator, our loving father, healer, comforter, etc.
Agreed!
I think maybe we have added to what I was original saying.........which was that the lost man sometimes does not come to Christ because he does not have the ability to grasp how long eternity and that is because we have "finale" brains instead of "Infinite" brains.
I agree CP completely because knowing God means that we have actually touched the infinity of time itself "without" realizing it with our mind.
In other words.....before time existed, there was God. When all things come to a close, God will still be here. We do not have to understand it, but if we believe in God we will experience it.
Play on words me thinks.
In the more technical sense we tend to distinguish between “eternal” (without beginning or end) and “infinite” (which just means going on forever – but having a starting point), often times the two words get used interchangeably in the more common and less technical uses.
So I may stand in the pulpit and say.......
“We will live with God for eternity,” I do not mean to convey a technical sense of “without beginning or end”.
In that sense, the word “eternity” refers to the unending, “infinite”, future stretching out before us.
However, “We will live with God for infinity,” just doesn’t have the same ring to it as “We will live with God for eternity.” However, in this instance, the meanings are the same. Our existence will continue on without end, but had a definite beginning at a particular point in time.
We can do math with infinities but we don't grasp them emotionally. Sometimes when I dream about outer space or my own death and yes heaven, I have a feeling of staring into a vast abyss. However, I don't think that is truly understanding. It is simply our brains method of accepting the reality of what we believe the Scriptures promise us.
Why we talk about eternity and infinity in relation to Gods is just to indicate that we conceive them that way. Language allows us to mention and sometimes even work with things that are bigger than our mind.
I probably agree, but I'm still trying to understand your usage of the word infinity.
As flesh we will never fully comprehend the greatness of God and yet God can lead us to understand (know) him in a biblical sense.
Jer 24:7 And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the LORD: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart. (KJV)
1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (KJV)