Revelation

Major said:
Again, you exact words were.............."..".we are in tribulation no i dont advocate were in great tribulation.. "!
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i dint ask you .your missing it you keep adding great Tribulation is trouble or affliction of any kind

Matthew 13:21​

King James Version​

Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

you are adding to my words. every one is experiences tribulation to some degree . including YOU.. our peace is in Christ our tribulation is in this world once again read my post real close i am NOT talking about the great tribulation

I do not know what you think!
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your right because your only reading seeing it from your point of view why you insist i am posting on the great tribulation is beyond me.. what do you think paul peter james john the baptist went through? it was trails tribulation the other disciples went through the same thing.. people cut asunder put in wild skins turned out into the wilderness ..

if this dont explain or get you to understand i am done. honestly our post has been good up to this point . i prefer them to stay that way.. i enjoyed the post on the dead church i have been respectful towards you .once please read my post in the context i have laid out.. Not what you think it says
 
Moderator Suggestion - There seems to be some friction developing. Gentlemen (and Pastors), please put your differences aside and leave the critical comments toward each other at the door. Let's be good role models for the general membership here and cease the bickering. Thank you.
 
REVELATION 4:5-6..............
"And from the throne proceeded lightnings, thunderings, and voices. Seven lamps of fire were burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
6 Before the throne there was a sea of glass, like crystal. And in the midst of the throne, and around the throne, were four beasts full of eyes in front and in back."

The Bible always interprets itself. From verse #5 we now can confirm that John was seeing the "Throne Room" scene in heaven.

Carefully notice and if you have a Greek concordance that the "tense" is in the PRESENT. It should be "Proceed not proceeded"

It means that it is taking place right then and there.

"Lightning and Thunder and Voices indicate a coming storm of JUDGMENT! A Storm is brewing and although it is coming, notice that all is quiet and peaceful before the Throne of God. The "Sea of Glass" pictures calmness.

"Seven lamps and Seven Spirits" = The completeness of the Godhead as the #7 represents Perfection/Completeness in the Scriptures.

Remember......John is writing in Word Pictures. He is trying to put inot words what he is seeing but does not understand what it is he is seeing. Think about the word "COOL". When it is used today it indicates something really GOOD or NEAT. Just 50 years ago it meant ....
COLD, get me a coat!

Now verse 6 says "Four beasts." = Living Creatures.

The Greek word here is "ZOA" from which we get the word ZOO. It does not mean a wild beast but instead a "Living Creature".

The emphasis is not on the "beastial" but rather on the VITAL that they are living.

"Full of Eyes before and behind" = alertness and awareness. We do not know but they resemble the Cherubim of Ezekiel 1:5-10,,,10:20 and the Seraphim of Isaiah 6:2-3.
 
Major, one of the things that astound me to this very day is how John saw (past tense), back then, what had not yet occurred on this earth (yet future to him, as if it were happening back then). The time differences warp the brain trying to grasp it. Yes, he was taken into a timeless realm, or perhaps those were just visions where he was allowed to interact with the elder and with angels, but it brings to mind what Jesus said,"

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

WOW! That's a statement with such power, and yet so missed by so many today.

MM
 
Musicmaster said:
Major, one of the things that astound me to this very day is how John saw (past tense), back then, what had not yet occurred on this earth (yet future to him, as if it were happening back then). The time differences warp the brain trying to grasp it. Yes, he was taken into a timeless realm, or perhaps those were just visions where he was allowed to interact with the elder and with angels, but it brings to mind what Jesus said,"

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

WOW! That's a statement with such power, and yet so missed by so many today.

MM
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Thank you for your well thought out and civil manner of posting comments that add to this study!!!
This is being done for one purpose......to try and reach those who need a clear understanding of the event that we have all been told about our whole lives, but many just do not understand because it at times comes across as just too complicated.

Agreed and that is the very reason so many have been confused about the book.

There are TWO areas which a lot of people do not grasp.

#1. The book of the Revelation was written in "PROLEPTIC" Language of the Greek. That is kind of what you alluded to!
That is a fancy word that simply means.....John wrote what he was given to see by God as if it had already taken place.

#2. The failure to understand the "Parenthetical" periods of the book of Revelation.
There are 7 "Parenthetical" chapters and if one misses what they are for, then one will wind up of somewhere in a rabbit hole!

These parenthetical passages, simply, contain explanatory matters about things that will transpire, but were not contained in the revealing of the seal, trumpet and vial judgments. However, understanding the reason for these parenthesis-interruptions is necessary in order to bring the reader up to date on what else is taking place during the revealing of these judgments in the Revelation and continue the chronological order of events.
 
Major said:
Thank you for your well thought out and civil manner of posting comments that add to this study!!!
This is being done for one purpose......to try and reach those who need a clear understanding of the event that we have all been told about our whole lives, but many just do not understand because it at times comes across as just too complicated.

Agreed and that is the very reason so many have been confused about the book.

There are TWO areas which a lot of people do not grasp.

#1. The book of the Revelation was written in "PROLEPTIC" Language of the Greek. That is kind of what you alluded to!
That is a fancy word that simply means.....John wrote what he was given to see by God as if it had already taken place.

#2. The failure to understand the "Parenthetical" periods of the book of Revelation.
There are 7 "Parenthetical" chapters and if one misses what they are for, then one will wind up of somewhere in a rabbit hole!

These parenthetical passages, simply, contain explanatory matters about things that will transpire, but were not contained in the revealing of the seal, trumpet and vial judgments. However, understanding the reason for these parenthesis-interruptions is necessary in order to bring the reader up to date on what else is taking place during the revealing of these judgments in the Revelation and continue the chronological order of events.
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I like John Barnett's approach to Revelation. He asked the question, "Why not take many of the things that some see as symbolism, and consider them as being literal. If the literal doesn't work, THEN look at them as allegorical." His point was aimed at the locust demons coming up out of the pit to torment all men who did not have the seal of God upon them. The tendency so many have to allegoricalize all such imagery in Revelation may not be the reality in that period of time. (shrug) I dunno :confused:. When it comes to so much of that stuff that is not yet revealed in our reality, all I can do is shrug my shoulders and declare it's all going to come to pass in the Lord's own good time.

So, what I do is look at the literal interpretation and consider the plausibility, then push it further away into the allegorical, and just consider which one seems more plausible. Given that so much of what's going to happen in the Tribulation period is supernatural, it's possible that where it says that an angel will sail through the air of the whole earth preaching the Gospel that all men will hear, that may very well be the reality, in a literal sense. (shrug) Again, I dunno....

I just keep the command of Christ Jesus alive in my prayer life as stated in Luke 21:36.

MM
 
Musicmaster said:
I like John Barnett's approach to Revelation. He asked the question, "Why not take many of the things that some see as symbolism, and consider them as being literal. If the literal doesn't work, THEN look at them as allegorical." His point was aimed at the locust demons coming up out of the pit to torment all men who did not have the seal of God upon them. The tendency so many have to allegoricalize all such imagery in Revelation may not be the reality in that period of time. (shrug) I dunno :confused:. When it comes to so much of that stuff that is not yet revealed in our reality, all I can do is shrug my shoulders and declare it's all going to come to pass in the Lord's own good time.

So, what I do is look at the literal interpretation and consider the plausibility, then push it further away into the allegorical, and just consider which one seems more plausible. Given that so much of what's going to happen in the Tribulation period is supernatural, it's possible that where it says that an angel will sail through the air of the whole earth preaching the Gospel that all men will hear, that may very well be the reality, in a literal sense. (shrug) Again, I dunno....

I just keep the command of Christ Jesus alive in my prayer life as stated in Luke 21:36.

MM
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Agreed.

KISS!
 
REVELATION 4:7-8
" And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.

8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come."

Thar four Beasts are LITERAL. There is no fundamental need to spiritualize what John saw. Now if we go back and allow the Bible to interpret itself we can see what John saw. What John saw is the portraits of Christ as seen on the earth by the Apostles.

Living beings can also mean "ANGELS".

1. LION = Matthew pictured Christ as the "King of the Jews".
Matthew 27:37.............."And over his head they put the charge against him, which read, “This is Jesus, the King of the Jews.”

2. CALF (Ox)= Mark pictured Christ as hard working, obedient, a servant.
Hebrews 1:14.

3. LIVING BEING = Luke pictured Christ as the ideal perfect man.
Luke 19:10, which reads, “The Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.”

4. EAGLE = John as he pictured Christ as having a heavenly origin, soaring above all.

Also consider that The first living creature was like a lion; this was, say the rabbins, the standard of JUDAH on the east, with the two tribes of Issachar and Zabulon.

The second, like a calf or ox, which was the emblem of EPHRAIM who pitched on the west, with the two tribes of Manasseh and Benjamin.

The third, with the face of a man, which, according to the rabbins, was the standard of REUBEN who pitched on the south, with the two tribes of Simeon and Gad.

The fourth which was like a flying (spread) eagle, was, according to the same writers, the emblem on the ensign of DAN who pitched on the north, with the two tribes of Asher and Naphtali.

This traditionary description agrees with the four faces of the cherub in Ezekiel's vision along with the Apostles pictures of Christ.

Verse #8...........
3 Holies = the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost! All equal and all together = the Trinity or the God head!

Notice........LORD--------GOD------ALMIGHTY = Trinity.
1 2 3 = Trinity.

The Old Test. name used frequently was ...."Lord God of Hosts"!

"EYES" = Wisdom.

"WINGS" = Movement.
 
REVELATION 4:9-11...........
"And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

The picture John draws is on continual worship.

Allow me to ask everyone. Does it bother you when there is a lot of noise in your worship service?
Do you get annoyed when people shout AMEN in your church???
What about hand clapping, does that bother you and put you in an uneasy feeling??
Do you get bored easily in your worships services and find yourself dozing off??

Now if you answered YES to any of those questions, what will you do in heaven??????

Consider the worship scene in Heaven and you can see that heaven is a loud place!
Worship is the activity of heaven and it will last forever.

Verse 9, "Glory" = PRAISE".
Honor ................ = RESPECT".
Thanks................ = THANKSGIVING" and it is the basis for Communion.

Verse 10 says the elders "fall down" which is a sign of "Humbleness"!

"Casting their crowns" is an act of worship to the only one worthy to be worshipped.

Verse #11 confirms all the other Bible Scriptures which tell us that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Creator of all things.
 
PROPHECY OF SEVENTY (70) WEEKS OF ISRAEL

I thought that this would be a good time to explain what the "Tribulation Period" is, and why and who it is aimed at.

Daniel 9:24-27 .....
"Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place. 25"Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 <He> (Emphasis are mine) will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

1. SEVENTY WEEKs (70) are determined upon Israel.
 A. These "weeks" of years will end with the anointing of Christ as King.
B. These "weeks" are not sets of days but of YEARS. Each week is 7 years for a total of 490 years.
C. "WEEKS" is actually translated as "Sevens of Years".

WHY 490 Years???

It seems to God has chosen to deal with Israel in 490 year increments. WHY????

Matthew 1:17 .......
"So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations."

Consider this.........A Bible generation is 35 years.

So then a Multiple of a Bible generation of 35 years by 14 and you get 490 years.

So, Real time history tells us that from Abraham to David is 490 years.

From David to Israel being taken captive by Babylon, is 490 years.

And from the captivity in Babylon to the first coming of Jesus Christ as a babe in the manger, is 490 years.

As you can see, the number, 490 years, has great significance.

The prophetic timeline of 490 years is weaved together with major time periods in the history of Israel.

2. These 70 Weeks of years began with a decree to restore Jerusalem.
A. Artaxerxes Longimanus made such a decree in Neh. 2:1-10.
B. According to the British Royal Ob. and Greewich Time, this was done on March 14, 445 B.C.

3. This decree from the Bible says a certain # of years will be lived until Messiah is cut off.
A. This prophecy is a peroid of 7 weeks (49 years) and then 62 weeks (434 years) which is a total of 69 weeks or.....
69 x 7 =483 BIBLE YEARS. (360 Days a Year). That comes to 173,880 days exactly!!!!
B. So to sum this up in country boy English, the Bible says that after 173,880 days, the Messiah would be cut off!

4. This prophecy was fullfilled on the 10th day of Nisan which was April 6, 33 A.D.
A. Luke 19:28-44 tells us that Jesus entered Jerusalm on that day and presented Himself as the Messiah to the Jews.
B. Verse 37 says that His disciples recognized Him as Messiah but the the rulers and people rejected Him.
C. Verse 41-44 tells us that Jesus then wept over the city because Israel ignored their Messiah.
D. This was Israel;s day of decision! As a nation they choose "TO CUT OFF THEIR MESSIAH".

5. According to the calculation mentioned above, Daniels prophecy was fulfilled to the exact DAY. 173,880 days.
A. From March 14, 445 BC to April 6, 33 AD is Exactly 173,880 days!

6. When Israel rejected Christ, God's prophetic clock stopped! During this time God has created the Church. It is made up of Jews and Gentiles from the whole world.
A. The 1st 69 weeks of Daniel concerned God's witness to the world through His chosen People...Israel.
B. After the 69 weeks God created His Church to witness to the world.
C. During the 70th week (7 Years) God will deal with His chosen people, Israel.

Thus the last set of 7 years is what the Bible calls the TRIBULATION PEROID.
 
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It's interesting how it was exactly 69 weeks (7X69=483 years to the day) from when the decree was issued to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem and the temple, and the day Christ rode into Jerusalem on a white colt in what is called the Triumphal Entry.

MM
 
It amazes me to see such accuracy in prophesy and still people don't believe the bible. I truly believe they reject it over their lack of morality. They love the darkness. Good stuff Major!
 
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