Saved in childbearing?

Hi, there, Lanolin. Let's look at all 15 verses in 1 Timothy 2 (NLT). It lists a number of requirements for Mums being saved - it ain't just childbearing, but a number of other things too.

Verse 4 sets up the fact that the Lord wants everyone to be saved. Then it goes in to how men and women are to Worship. Then at the end of the chapter it says that women can be saved through their ROLE as Mums, ASSUMING that they also continue to live in faith, love, holiness, and modesty. It ain't just in childbearing that they are saved, but there are several things that women could do to be saved. Worship God, accept Christ, the Savior into their lives and be kind, loving and caring to their families and to others.


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Oh ok is there one way for men and another for women. What about the women who don't have any children of their own?

There are probably some women who don't like children, and mothers who don't like their own children.
 
Lanolin said:
By modesty what does that mean? A woman isn't allowed to be loud, shout, scream or wear flashy clothes to be noticed?
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I’m pretty conservative in my dress sense and prefer Kate Middletons style but in my youth, I and I think women do enjoy dressing up and it all depends on what your comfortable with.

Im on the side of women and girls need to dress appropriately because some men can’t control their fleshy natures and we are to be respectful to their fleshy natures and to not allow them to stumble.

But at the same time I have seen happy nudists on nudists beaches and no one batted an eyelid!🙈

Each to their own. I prefer clothes. Good fitting ones.

What about you lan? What do you think women ought to wear?
 
First Timothy 2:14 & 15.
If you will notice it speaks of Eve being in the transgression. We have to understand what the transgressions was.
The original intent was that propagation was to be spoken word conceptions (as Jesus was) but by the fall it was perverted (Serpent Seed). In verse 15 it says "Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing" - or - despite the fact of the nature of the fall she shall be saved if...
 
Lanolin said:
In the Bible it says women are saved in childbearing, what does this mean? Does it mean salvation is for every mother? What about those women who don't have children, will they be saved too? Not every woman can have a child or give birth. It's not that easy, nor does every woman find a partner.
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Lanolin said:
By modesty what does that mean? A woman isn't allowed to be loud, shout, scream or wear flashy clothes to be noticed?
Click to expand...

Good morning, Lanolin;

You asked a great question and yes, there is no easy answer to this. Women saved in childbearing if she walks in obedience to God could be interpreted as salvation but I believe this passage is also meant for women who aren't saved (in Christ), or don't have children. Many good women gave childbirth but have not receive Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

How about the "salvation filled" woman who gave childbirth but renounced her faith in Christ?

My point is, who am I to judge a woman whether saved or not, yet gives childbirth, or doesn't give childbirth? That is God's job.

In 1985 my wife had a devastating miscarriage after 6 months. I don't believe this forfeit her salvation. Has she sinned since? Yes, as we all do.

We never had children after that but her faith has grown and today has no doubt she will receive eternity with God.

As far as modesty, in my interpretation it is about self-control of the mother to her children. I've encountered women who are loud, shout, scream and wear flashy clothes but these are some of the most loving, caring and wonderful people that I've met.

God bless you, sister.
 
Hello Lanolin, I have MANY commentaries on 1 Timothy, and two points that are consistently made about v15 are these, 1. that it is the most difficult verse/passage to properly interpret in the Pastoral Epistles, and 2. that being "~saved~ through the bearing of children" does NOT refer to salvation itself (every commentary that I own on 1 Timothy took the time to make that point, point #2, that is, abundantly clear). Like most other words, σῴζω (transliterated as sozo) has a number of different meanings in Greek and in English (e.g. in English we speak of "saving" a child's life from drowning, but we also use the same word when we speak of preserving a Word document in our computers, by "saving" it as a file).

This is an interesting/unique verse/passage/topic in a number of ways, one that I believe is worth spending a bit of extra time considering (so thank you from bringing it up here (y)). As a for instance, notice the words below in bold type,

1 Timothy 2 (NKJV)​
15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.​

I have some additional thoughts about all of this, but they will have to wait as I need to go right now. I hope to return later however, so I will talk with you then (Dv).

edit: In case you are interested, here's a short, online commentary that I just found about v15 that you may find useful:


God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf
 
Via dolarossa said:
I’m pretty conservative in my dress sense and prefer Kate Middletons style but in my youth, I and I think women do enjoy dressing up and it all depends on what your comfortable with.

Im on the side of women and girls need to dress appropriately because some men can’t control their fleshy natures and we are to be respectful to their fleshy natures and to not allow them to stumble.

But at the same time I have seen happy nudists on nudists beaches and no one batted an eyelid!🙈

Each to their own. I prefer clothes. Good fitting ones.

What about you lan? What do you think women ought to wear?
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Kate Middleton (no longer Middleton, she MARRIED) is now a Princess and has clothes given to her.
Few of us are born or marry into royalty to be able to afford nice clothes.
 
Lanolin said:
Kate Middleton (no longer Middleton, she MARRIED) is now a Princess and has clothes given to her.
Few of us are born or marry into royalty to be able to afford nice clothes.
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Well, I once thought she had clothing given her for free too. But apparently they are not allowed any gifts! And King Charles pays for all their clothes from his duchy of Cornwall estate.

I think that really shows them to be decent working people like the rest of us.

 
What ok, well, he gives her a clothing allowance then. But Charles doesn't actually WORK he just has people pay him rent, being a landlord. He is definitely not working class like 'the rest of us'.
 
Lanolin said:
Charles doesn't actually WORK he just has people pay him rent, being a landlord. He is definitely not working class like 'the rest of us'.
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The King does work.

From the Official Royal Site here;


His Majesty has worked closely with many organisations, publicly supporting a wide variety of causes relating to the environment, rural communities, the built environment, the arts, healthcare and education. \

Yes he gets a sovereign grant that he uses to pay for his official engagements and parties and fundraising events to support investments and charities and the like. It seems like a cool job, I would love it! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-57559653

Also, his duchy of Lancaster( which I think you mean Lanolin) is his too and if you check it out he indeed gets money from rent and investments and puts a lot back into looking after the land and benefiting the local communities. He is a good king in my eyes. at least he didn't swan off abroad like my old landlord and spent most of his "rent money in Spain" whilst owning many housing properties.

Duties of the Duchy - Duchy of Lancaster

This section explains the Duchy’s administrative role in the County Palatine, and profiles the other appointments for which the Duchy of Lancaster is responsible.
www.duchyoflancaster.co.uk www.duchyoflancaster.co.uk
 
Via dolarossa said:
The King does work.

From the Official Royal Site here;


His Majesty has worked closely with many organisations, publicly supporting a wide variety of causes relating to the environment, rural communities, the built environment, the arts, healthcare and education. \

Yes he gets a sovereign grant that he uses to pay for his official engagements and parties and fundraising events to support investments and charities and the like. It seems like a cool job, I would love it! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-57559653

Also, his duchy of Lancaster( which I think you mean Lanolin) is his too and if you check it out he indeed gets money from rent and investments and puts a lot back into looking after the land and benefiting the local communities. He is a good king in my eyes. at least he didn't swan off abroad like my old landlord and spent most of his "rent money in Spain" whilst owning many housing properties.

Duties of the Duchy - Duchy of Lancaster

This section explains the Duchy’s administrative role in the County Palatine, and profiles the other appointments for which the Duchy of Lancaster is responsible.
www.duchyoflancaster.co.uk www.duchyoflancaster.co.uk
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Hello Via;

Thank you for your post. 😎 👍

King Charles and sister Princess Ann were children who longed for their father and mother growing up. Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip were both excellent leaders but were extremely busy representing and tending to the UK.

Princess Ann and her husband Mark childbore son Peter and daughter Zora. King Charles and the late Diane Spencer had two sons, William and Harry. It seems their children also had a distant relationship with their children.

Question. Is Mark a Prince?

But in the next generations both William and Harry had made an effort to be closer to their children, possibly to learn from their child rearing the last 2 generations.

Am I close to what I shared?

God bless you, sister.
 
Some years ago Prince Charles set up a charity to fund youngsters who could not afford to start their careers. They received advice, training and money.

Charles care about other people which is why he is cutting down on property owned by the Crown.

Princess Diana was the one who started a fresh way to bring royal families up. She wanted her children to have as normal a life as possible, and ,Kate, William and Harry have carried it on.
Blessings
 
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Cosia said:
Some years ago Prince Charles set up a charity to fund youngsters who could not afford to start their careers. They received advice, training and money.

Charles care about other people which is why he is cutting down on property owned by the Crown.

Princess Diana was the one who started a fresh way to bring royal families up. She wanted her children to have as normal a life as possible, and ,Kate, William and Harry have carried it on.
Blessings
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Cosia said:
bobinfaith as far as I remember Captain Mark Phillips, Princess Annes ex-husnand, was never given the title "Prince."
God Bless
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Hello Cosia;

Thank you for clarifying Charles and Mark. What do you mean, Charles cared about other people? Do you mean other people outside the UK?

Also, did Mark refuse the title Prince and this would include Peter and Zora as well?

God bless you and thank you, sister.
 
bobinfaith said:
Hello Cosia;

Thank you for clarifying Charles and Mark. What do you mean, Charles cared about other people? Do you mean other people outside the UK?

Also, did Mark refuse the title Prince and this would include Peter and Zora as well?

God bless you and thank you, sister.
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Hi Bob, he cares about the young people in the UK. I don't really know what he is going to do next to help them.

Mark Phillis did not have a title. At the time Peter and Zara were born, children did not automatically get the title if their father did not have one.
Blessings
 
Yes indeed The king assists charities in New Zealand

Our new King

gg.govt.nz gg.govt.nz

The King has an interest in the built environment, global sustainability, youth opportunity, education and faith. These interests are also reflected in the list of 400 organisations of which he is Patron or President.

But I’m not sure what will happen if they become a republic and independent.
 
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