I've been pondering something for a few years now. Can we talk about the Ecclesia, and who they are.

[rod1974]

We know somethings about the spiritual walk, and about God.

We know that the new birth is a spiritual event. It can't be seen, or manipulated. It is truly invisible, and belongs not in the physical realm, but the spirit realm. It may or may not be accomplished by your belief, by doing good things, agreeing with my doctrines, or by sacrificing your life to God.

This new birth is orchestrated ONLY by God. We respond to His offer of mercy and grace. Without Him it can't take place. Religious actions will not effect this event

Those who the new birth happens to from outer appearances look like the rest of us, and we to them.

The one who REALLY knows, that this new birth has occurred to you, me, and the persons next to us, or all over this world is God. He is the only one who truly knows, because he is building the house.

This event and these people that it has happened to are in a spiritual way invisible to us. (Unless a great discernment is given to us, by God, and this "usually" doesn't happen.

ALL OF THIS (The above) causes some very meaningful questions to arise.

1) Fellowship. Is fellowship not the same as the new birth, I mean it is a spiritual event. It is not a physical one (necessarily). It's not defined by a potluck. In fact you could go to church, find your pastor, you and he could talk about heavenly things and in God's opinion NOT have fellowship. My premise is, ONLY the ecclesia can fellowship with God and thus with each other.

2). These people while physically visible and present, and are in a way invisible to us, we don't know for sure who they are. We also can not gather with all of them, because we don't know who they are, nor where they are at.

3). Have these people ever gathered together on this earth? Yes, the first local and universal church in the book of Acts. Has it happened since that time? No! What effect did they're gathering in one place bring? A huge spiritual dynamic, life altering change.



*What leads me to believe these people are unknown by us, or only by great discernment?

I remember during the Jesus movement, going out to street minister, you met all kinds of people, the question usually arose "Are you born again".

There were occasions when people would say yes, and those of us in the group, would look at each other and say to them again, "are you sure". Why? Because we didn't bare witness to the spirit in us, being in them.

Lastly the scripture say God will say "depart from me for I never knew you"... But Lord we healed , preached, ETC.... Also Paul says "examine yourself", and in another place ... "If you have been taught by Him"


*Anyway these are just things I am pondering.

 

[bobinfaith]

Hello Rod;

The Greek ecclesia refers in many definitions of assembly, but specifically in the context of a Christian assembly, congregational gathering or Church. You are correct that the first church meeting was in Acts 1:13.

Have there been such an ecclesia like that first meeting? No, but we must remember at that time Christ just ascended into heaven, which brought down the Helper, the Holy Spirit to descend, the new apostle Matthias was added, and more in that span.

There were also many Churches during those then and there times that were not anointed by God. At the end of worship many didn't feel like they got fed, and other Churches closed (stopped meeting) with bitterness, leaving the leaders and flock to scatter. Sad, but this has also happened in these here and now times.

The Good News is, though we may never have an ecclesia like the upper room with it's amazing events, the Holy Spirit has moved in Christ's Churches up to these times and many are blessed with the fellowship of love, acceptance, forbearing, forgiveness and spiritual growth in Christ.

The assembly of people with a variance of life challenges, successes, the curious and the nominal believer are the "one or two," or corporate who seek worship and fellowship as one body. These are the ecclesia of Christian worship.

God bless you, Rod.

Bob

 

[PaulisSaved]

We know somethings about the spiritual walk, and about God.

We know that the new birth is a spiritual event. It can't be seen, or manipulated. It is truly invisible, and belongs not in the physical realm, but the spirit realm. It may or may not be accomplished by your belief, by doing good things, agreeing with my doctrines, or by sacrificing your life to God.

This new birth is orchestrated ONLY by God. We respond to His offer of mercy and grace. Without Him it can't take place. Religious actions will not effect this event

Those who the new birth happens to from outer appearances look like the rest of us, and we to them.

The one who REALLY knows, that this new birth has occurred to you, me, and the persons next to us, or all over this world is God. He is the only one who truly knows, because he is building the house.

This event and these people that it has happened to are in a spiritual way invisible to us. (Unless a great discernment is given to us, by God, and this "usually" doesn't happen.

ALL OF THIS (The above) causes some very meaningful questions to arise.

1) Fellowship. Is fellowship not the same as the new birth, I mean it is a spiritual event. It is not a physical one (necessarily). It's not defined by a potluck. In fact you could go to church, find your pastor, you and he could talk about heavenly things and in God's opinion NOT have fellowship. My premise is, ONLY the ecclesia can fellowship with God and thus with each other.

2). These people while physically visible and present, and are in a way invisible to us, we don't know for sure who they are. We also can not gather with all of them, because we don't know who they are, nor where they are at.

3). Have these people ever gathered together on this earth? Yes, the first local and universal church in the book of Acts. Has it happened since that time? No! What effect did they're gathering in one place bring? A huge spiritual dynamic, life altering change.



*What leads me to believe these people are unknown by us, or only by great discernment?

I remember during the Jesus movement, going out to street minister, you met all kinds of people, the question usually arose "Are you born again".

There were occasions when people would say yes, and those of us in the group, would look at each other and say to them again, "are you sure". Why? Because we didn't bare witness to the spirit in us, being in them.

Lastly the scripture say God will say "depart from me for I never knew you"... But Lord we healed , preached, ETC.... Also Paul says "examine yourself", and in another place ... "If you have been taught by Him"


*Anyway these are just things I am pondering.

Hi Rod

As we know the ecclesia refers to the assembly or gathering of believers, commonly translated as "church" in the New Testament. In the context of Christian worship, the ecclesia is the body of Christ, the community of believers who come together to worship God, grow in faith, and live out the teachings of Jesus Christ. The ecclesia is not merely a building or a place of worship, but rather the people of God, called out from the world to live for Christ and to participate in His redemptive mission. This is why myself personally do not see the Church as a Building as even in translation. Its could also mean people simply sitting around a campfire and worshiping. But Christ talks about a universal gathering. And it perspective is That the ecclesia is not merely a gathering for worship, but also a fellowship of believers who support and care for one another. The ecclesia is more than a gathering of individuals though ; as its is described as the Body of Christ in 1 Corinthians 12:27: “Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.” Every believer is a unique and essential part of this body, with Christ as the Head. This metaphor signifies unity, interdependence, and purpose. The ecclesia exists to continue Christ’s mission on earth and to proclaim the gospel, to demonstrate His love, and to act as His hands and feet in service to the world. ( Amen )

It is important in this day and age to properly determine " Church " And Church is used in a structural way more then it is used in a Biblical one today. But that is a whole other discussion.
I think the key to the ecclesia, is in its fellowship. For it truly needs this to ground all Christ spoke ok.

Paul

 

[crossnote]

1) Fellowship. Is fellowship not the same as the new birth,

I don't believe so, but the new birth will manifest itself in and be desirous of fellowship.

2). These people while physically visible and present, and are in a way invisible to us, we don't know for sure who they are. We also can not gather with all of them, because we don't know who they are, nor where they are at.

Which reminds me of:
2 Timothy 2:19 KJV
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

3). Have these people ever gathered together on this earth? Yes, the first local and universal church in the book of Acts. Has it happened since that time? No! What effect did they're gathering in one place bring? A huge spiritual dynamic, life altering change.

There have been great revivals in recent history (e.g. the Welsh Revival). In your own words, "

This new birth is orchestrated ONLY by God. We respond to His offer of mercy and grace. Without Him it can't take place. Religious actions will not effect this event

So how can an ecclessia trigger a new birth, if God is it's Author?

 

[Marilyn C]

We know somethings about the spiritual walk, and about God.

We know that the new birth is a spiritual event. It can't be seen, or manipulated. It is truly invisible, and belongs not in the physical realm, but the spirit realm. It may or may not be accomplished by your belief, by doing good things, agreeing with my doctrines, or by sacrificing your life to God.

This new birth is orchestrated ONLY by God. We respond to His offer of mercy and grace. Without Him it can't take place. Religious actions will not effect this event

Those who the new birth happens to from outer appearances look like the rest of us, and we to them.

The one who REALLY knows, that this new birth has occurred to you, me, and the persons next to us, or all over this world is God. He is the only one who truly knows, because he is building the house.

This event and these people that it has happened to are in a spiritual way invisible to us. (Unless a great discernment is given to us, by God, and this "usually" doesn't happen.

ALL OF THIS (The above) causes some very meaningful questions to arise.

1) Fellowship. Is fellowship not the same as the new birth, I mean it is a spiritual event. It is not a physical one (necessarily). It's not defined by a potluck. In fact you could go to church, find your pastor, you and he could talk about heavenly things and in God's opinion NOT have fellowship. My premise is, ONLY the ecclesia can fellowship with God and thus with each other.

2). These people while physically visible and present, and are in a way invisible to us, we don't know for sure who they are. We also can not gather with all of them, because we don't know who they are, nor where they are at.

3). Have these people ever gathered together on this earth? Yes, the first local and universal church in the book of Acts. Has it happened since that time? No! What effect did they're gathering in one place bring? A huge spiritual dynamic, life altering change.



*What leads me to believe these people are unknown by us, or only by great discernment?

I remember during the Jesus movement, going out to street minister, you met all kinds of people, the question usually arose "Are you born again".

There were occasions when people would say yes, and those of us in the group, would look at each other and say to them again, "are you sure". Why? Because we didn't bare witness to the spirit in us, being in them.

Lastly the scripture say God will say "depart from me for I never knew you"... But Lord we healed , preached, ETC.... Also Paul says "examine yourself", and in another place ... "If you have been taught by Him"


*Anyway these are just things I am pondering.

Very interesting and important Rod,

I think the close fellowship comes from those you disciple and from other peers you meet with in many different settings, fellowshipping over a meal, maybe having a study of God`s word, praying especially as needs arise. You get the picture. Just as Paul said to his son in the Lord, Timothy

Paul said...`You therefore, my son, (Timothy) be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.` (2 Tim. 2: 1 & 2)

Paul - with his peers, and others. (many witnesses)
Timothy - learnt from Paul by the Holy Spirit.
Faithful men - learnt from Timothy by the Holy Spirit. Not just converts but time spent in making disciples who could then teach others also.
Others - who learnt from the faithful men by the Holy Spirit.

This is the ekklesia, the discipling that the Lord told us to go and do. However, sadly many have focused on one at the top, (or few) and many sitting wondering where the joy of discipling is.

 

[Marilyn C]

I have been blessed to learn from faithful men (& women) in the part of the Body I was brought up in. It was (is) a fellowship that came out of the Welsh revival. Every year they had conventions in Penygroes, (Wales). My grandmother kept many of the booklets that had the sermons, testimonies and prophetic words. Here is a part of one of the long prophecies.

In Christ Alone.

The Lord says -

`It is not the towering ability of individual men that will bring the close of this dispensation to an end, but it will be the ripening, the moulding, the perfecting of a Body of People that will be peculiarly Mine.

There will be no possibility for `flesh` to glory, for all will be interwoven one into the other, and in the centre of them will be the fires of Divine Affection, in the centre of them will be the seeds of Divine Love, in the centre of them will be the deposit of the eternal Purpose of God;

And when that time will come, it will be far greater! - drawing from the earth a people (who have been Mine) in the sense of rapture; it will be the carrying away from the earth of that functional Organ from the realm of Time into its Eternal Setting.`


Prophetic Word (part of) from the Apostolic Convention in Penygroes, 1943.

Prophetic Ministry through Pastor J.D. Eynon.

I think that goes with Eph. 4: 13 `Till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect, (mature) man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;...`

Not the ministers of v. 11 but the ALL of v. 13, is the Lord building and maturing. Of course ministers are needed but they are part of the ALL that we are all coming together in Christ.

 

[bobinfaith]

Very interesting and important Rod, I think the close fellowship comes from those you disciple and from other peers you meet with in many different settings, fellowshipping over a meal, maybe having a study of God`s word, praying especially as needs arise. You get the picture. Just as Paul said to his son in the Lord, Timothy
Paul said...`You therefore, my son, (Timothy) be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.` (2 Tim. 2: 1 & 2)
Paul - with his peers, and others. (many witnesses)
Timothy - learnt from Paul by the Holy Spirit.
Faithful men - learnt from Timothy by the Holy Spirit. Not just converts but time spent in making disciples who could then teach others also.
Others - who learnt from the faithful men by the Holy Spirit.
This is the ekklesia, the discipling that the Lord told us to go and do. However, sadly many have focused on one at the top, (or few) and many sitting wondering where the joy of discipling is.

I have been blessed to learn from faithful men (& women) in the part of the Body I was brought up in. It was (is) a fellowship that came out of the Welsh revival. Every year they had conventions in Penygroes, (Wales). My grandmother kept many of the booklets that had the sermons, testimonies and prophetic words. Here is a part of one of the long prophecies.
In Christ Alone.

The Lord says -

`It is not the towering ability of individual men that will bring the close of this dispensation to an end, but it will be the ripening, the moulding, the perfecting of a Body of People that will be peculiarly Mine.

There will be no possibility for `flesh` to glory, for all will be interwoven one into the other, and in the centre of them will be the fires of Divine Affection, in the centre of them will be the seeds of Divine Love, in the centre of them will be the deposit of the eternal Purpose of God;

And when that time will come, it will be far greater! - drawing from the earth a people (who have been Mine) in the sense of rapture; it will be the carrying away from the earth of that functional Organ from the realm of Time into its Eternal Setting.`


Prophetic Word (part of) from the Apostolic Convention in Penygroes, 1943.

Prophetic Ministry through Pastor J.D. Eynon.

I think that goes with Eph. 4: 13 `Till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect, (mature) man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;...`

Not the ministers of v. 11 but the ALL of v. 13, is the Lord building and maturing. Of course ministers are needed but they are part of the ALL that we are all coming together in Christ.

Hello Marilyn;

I was checking in before calling it a night and came across your posts. You first mentioned the "Paul to Timothy" discipleship which is what we describe as profound contributors to the foundation of fellowship.

We have a 20 year old that I've known since he was 3. We helped mentor him in the Church. I worked closely with our children's minister, later with our youth pastor in ministering to him. He'll be 21 in November and carries himself as a young man of God, a "joiner" (outgoing) in the ecclesia and was led to a Church with young adults.

When you brought up the Welsh Revival '04-'05 is something from the past that I hadn't heard in years since we touched on it briefly at seminary.

Are you currently attending a Church tied to the Welsh fellowship, and does one exist in Australia?

God bless you, sister, good night and thank you for sharing.

Bob

 

[Marilyn C]

Hello Marilyn;

I was checking in before calling it a night and came across your posts. You first mentioned the "Paul to Timothy" discipleship which is what we describe as profound contributors to the foundation of fellowship.

We have a 20 year old that I've known since he was 3. We helped mentor him in the Church. I worked closely with our children's minister, later with our youth pastor in ministering to him. He'll be 21 in November and carries himself as a young man of God, a "joiner" (outgoing) in the ecclesia and was led to a Church with young adults.

When you brought up the Welsh Revival '04-'05 is something from the past that I hadn't heard in years since we touched on it briefly at seminary.

Are you currently attending a Church tied to the Welsh fellowship, and does one exist in Australia?

God bless you, sister, good night and thank you for sharing.

Bob

Hi Bob,

What a joy for you to see this young man grow in the Lord. About the Welsh Revival, my mother told me stories she heard from some who came through that time. One was that the pit ponies couldn`t understand the men as they weren`t swearing at them. Another story was that the pubs were shut for a long time. Also, that people at the meetings or even in the street were so convicted of their sin that they would fall down weeping.

Different groups started to fellowship in homes and eventually they banded together and became the assemblies of God. Four distinct homes were drawn together by the Lord quite miraculously with the Lord directing one man from one group to another group. They found that they believed Eph. 4: 11 about the 5-fold ministries of Christ. This became the beginnings of the Apostolic Church which has now spread worldwide. It grew more slowly than the AOG because it was centrally controlled. Nowadays local Apostolic church are given more autonomy.

The name `Apostolic` is used by many other groups especially the new Apostolic Reformation. The beliefs are quite different.

Yes, there are many Apostolic Churches all over Australia, though none close to us. We fellowship, (when health and strength allow) with other believers in small groups. And then they meet with their disciples as well. It is like a disciple network. We all help each other with prayer, food, clothing, jobs etc. And this is in different towns around us as we live in the country.

 

[bobinfaith]

Hi Bob,

Different groups started to fellowship in homes and eventually they banded together and became the assemblies of God. Four distinct homes were drawn together by the Lord quite miraculously with the Lord directing one man from one group to another group. They found that they believed Eph. 4: 11 about the 5-fold ministries of Christ. This became the beginnings of the Apostolic Church which has now spread worldwide. It grew more slowly than the AOG because it was centrally controlled. Nowadays local Apostolic church are given more autonomy. The name `Apostolic` is used by many other groups especially the new Apostolic Reformation. The beliefs are quite different. Yes, there are many Apostolic Churches all over Australia, though none close to us. We fellowship, (when health and strength allow) with other believers in small groups. And then they meet with their disciples as well. It is like a disciple network. We all help each other with prayer, food, clothing, jobs etc. And this is in different towns around us as we live in the country.

Hello Marilyn;

Thank you for sharing, learning more about the Welsh Revival, how it evolved and where you and your husband are today.

God bless you.