The judgment seat of Christ: Dividing wheat from tares by works.

[Major]

your correct on the judgment of nations ..my only thought what makes a nation people do ...they elect a Government..

wheat represent those truly saved the tares are the false christians parable wheat tares is easy to see Israel is not saved.. while there are christian jews Jesus is teaching real and fake the fake blend in look act just like the real.. at harvest Christ will separate i am not arguing either . i am stating what i see and read .. i am always open to being shown different.. but i find nothing in concept of what your saying..

I think we simply have a failure to comprend the situation and actully we both are correct.

Although this judgment we are talking about is called the judgment of the nations, I agree with you that it is not a judgment of national groups of people.

The Greek word translated “nations” implies Gentiles; and the context indicates that individuals, not groups, will be evaluated (“He shall separate them one from another,” in vs. 32 implies people.

It is about the Gentile nations and how they treated Israel.

These “brethren” of Jesus in verse 40 will be the Jewish people.
Only Gentile believers in Jesus will dare to provide for their physical needs (food, clothing, and housing) and even visit them in prison.

Now then, the true faith of Gentiles who survive the Tribulation will be evidenced by their treatment of Jewish people during the Tribulation period.

 

[Major]

communion is for those saved water baptism follows those who truly go saved

im not sure what the lol is i was asking of your view on the subject

I was just laughing at the idea that David Jeremiah would need or ask ME for any advice.

 

[Major]

This is why the thief of the cross example fails for me... he wasn't baptized because he literally could not be. The exception can't also be the rule. This view of baptism is always under extreme circumstances. I'm talking about the person who just doesn't want to or is putting it off for years and years. Someone who can't be baptized is different from someone who won't be baptized.

I understand your thought and actually I agree that it is an exception.

Consider the choices.........
1. The thief was saved, baptized and then placed on the cross.
The problem with that is that there is NO Scriptural evidence.

2. The thief was saved, taken down and baptized and placed back on the cross.
The problem with that is that there is NO Scriptural evidence.

3. The thief was saved simply be faith in believing Jesus was the Christ, and then died without being baptized.

Now, if baptism was as important in being saved as some think it is, then why wasn't the thief taken down and baptized then placed back on the cross to die.

Also consider that Nowhere does the Bible say the words, “cannot be saved without water baptism,” or “an unbaptized believer is not saved.”

Then take the time to consider Mark 16:16 where most who insist on baptism to be saved, miss the last part of Mark 16:16 which says anyone who does not believe is condemned. That is, they are going to hell. Here is the verse.........
"He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. "

Do you see it????? Why is the last part of the verse important? Notice that if baptism is required for salvation, then the last part of the verse would say, “. . . he who has disbelieved or has not been baptized shall be condemned.”

That is, the verse only says people are condemned if they do not believe. It never says the absence of baptism condemns anyone.
Faith and only faith saves an individual.
Baptism is simply an outward symbolic act of an inward change of heart and transformation brought by the Holy Spirit.

You said............
" I'm talking about the person who just doesn't want to or is putting it off for years and years. Someone who can't be baptized is different from someone who won't be baptized."

Now, please remember, I am talking about teaching here and only teaching so please do not think I am makeing personal comments.
So then.....You can not have it both ways! Either water baptism is an essential to salvation or it is not. A doctrine or belief applies to everyone or NO ONE!

The person who doesn't want to be baptized or puts it off is in fact disobeying the command of God.
You see, baptism demonstrates that the old way of life has ended, and a new life of faith in Jesus Christ has begun. Baptism is important because it provides a visual testimony—a public declaration to the world—that symbolically identifies the new believer with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ and about the only way I can grasp where some one who is physically able to be but refuses is that they have never been taught its importance, or they did not accept Jesus as Christ in the 1st place.

 

[cocoa]

I understand your thought and actually I agree that it is an exception.

Consider the choices.........
1. The thief was saved, baptized and then placed on the cross.
The problem with that is that there is NO Scriptural evidence.

2. The thief was saved, taken down and baptized and placed back on the cross.
The problem with that is that there is NO Scriptural evidence.

3. The thief was saved simply be faith in believing Jesus was the Christ, and then died without being baptized.

Now, if baptism was as important in being saved as some think it is, then why wasn't the thief taken down and baptized then placed back on the cross to die.

Also consider that Nowhere does the Bible say the words, “cannot be saved without water baptism,” or “an unbaptized believer is not saved.”

Then take the time to consider Mark 16:16 where most who insist on baptism to be saved, miss the last part of Mark 16:16 which says anyone who does not believe is condemned. That is, they are going to hell. Here is the verse.........
"He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. "

Do you see it????? Why is the last part of the verse important? Notice that if baptism is required for salvation, then the last part of the verse would say, “. . . he who has disbelieved or has not been baptized shall be condemned.”

That is, the verse only says people are condemned if they do not believe. It never says the absence of baptism condemns anyone.
Faith and only faith saves an individual.
Baptism is simply an outward symbolic act of an inward change of heart and transformation brought by the Holy Spirit.

You said............
" I'm talking about the person who just doesn't want to or is putting it off for years and years. Someone who can't be baptized is different from someone who won't be baptized."

Now, please remember, I am talking about teaching here and only teaching so please do not think I am makeing personal comments.
So then.....You can not have it both ways! Either water baptism is an essential to salvation or it is not. A doctrine or belief applies to everyone or NO ONE!

The person who doesn't want to be baptized or puts it off is in fact disobeying the command of God.
You see, baptism demonstrates that the old way of life has ended, and a new life of faith in Jesus Christ has begun. Baptism is important because it provides a visual testimony—a public declaration to the world—that symbolically identifies the new believer with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ and about the only way I can grasp where some one who is physically able to be but refuses is that they have never been taught its importance, or they did not accept Jesus as Christ in the 1st place.

Thank you,I understand your explanation.

 

[Major]

Thank you,I understand your explanation.

I am at your service if you would like to discuss anything else on Bible doctrine.

 

[Godhelpus]

The Rapture will be the event that separates who is a believer. At that event, all born again believers will be caught up and those left are the ones who were "make-believers' that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 7:21-13.

Ah, now I see your possible objection. You are separating believers from make-believers. You say only the 'believers' will appear at His seat, not the 'make-believers'? While I consider anyone confessing faith in Christ to be a believer. And so, we all must appear at His seat, includes any confessing Christian, whether a good believer or make-believer.

If that is how we disagree, then do you have any Scripture proving that all naming His name, will not be judged by Him at the same time and place?

And if so, then how do we account for the fact that bad deeds will also be mentioned at His judgment seat, along with the good?

So far, I don't see any Scripture of the Lord separating between the believers and make-believers that name His name, before the 'made-believers' all appear at His seat. And also, if only reward for the good is recieved, then once again, why do bad works appear? Shouldn't the Scripture rather say,

2Co 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done (good).

They can not and will not be saved! They will not stand at the Bema Seat of Christ!

At this point, still half agree, half disagree. I agree that not all naming Christ, are of Christ, even as not all born of Israel, are Israel:

Rom 9:6 For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel

And so they shall not receive the reward of inheritance at Christ's seat.

2 Thessolonians 2:10-12 specifically says.......
"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. (11) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

This is the means of separation between the believers and make-believers. It says nothing of when that separation is made known by the Lord's judgment, whether at His seat or at the GWT.

Those who are left behind are in fact unsaved and they will be judged at the great white throne judgment, following Christ's millennial reign on earth.

Once again, we certainly agree on results. No evil servant naming Christ will be resurrected to meet Him in the air. They will be appointed with the hypocrites and reserved to judgment at the GWT.

Anyone naming Christ on earth, either not watching for Him, or even scoffing at His return, will have part in the blessed first resurrection of the saints, and will reign with the Lord for a thousand years.

 

[forgiven61]

I think we simply have a failure to comprend the situation

possible but in my reading of wheat and tares i find nothing that mentions judgement of nations .. we will just have to agree that it is what is move on..

 

[forgiven61]

matthew 13
24Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

25But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

26But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

27So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

28He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

29But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
lets look at the explanation by Jesus

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

37He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

in this discussion nothing in this parable is mentioned judgment of nations in fact Jesus tells us exactly what the parable means


as per the bema seat judgment of rewards for christians the giving account of the good and bad .. nothing i find shows the lost w/o Christ in this judgment.

the white throne judgment is for the lost


bema seat
this is from
enduring word commentary .. everyone note ..its just comments like we are making.. if i was to bring up jay vernon mcgee ..he would in a nut shell say the same thing... its not my job to change anyone.. that is the holy spirits job spirit of truth job...

i had a former pastor who could take the book of rev.. after he was done you was left in shock.. he had a complete different view including no thousand year reign of christ

2 Corinthians 5:10​

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

c. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ: When we pass from these bodies to the world beyond, we must each give account according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

i. This is not the Great White Throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15). This describes a judgment of the works of believers (the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad).

ii. The phrase judgment seat is a single word in the ancient Greek language of the New Testament. Bema literally means “step,” as in a raised platform or seat. This was where a Roman magistrate sat to act as a judge. The bema was “an object of reverence and fear to all the people.” (Hodge)

d. We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ: What will be judged at the judgment seat of Christ? First, what we have done will be judged (the things done). Secondly, our motives for what we have done will be judged (according to what he has done, whether good or bad).

i. We must live understanding that what we have done will be judged. It is possible to have a saved soul and a wasted life, and that will be judged at the judgment seat of Christ. This should be an encouragement in our service to the Lord. It should remind us of the principle in Hebrews 6:10: For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister. Paul knows that the troubles of this life are worth it because he will be rewarded at the judgment seat of Christ.

ii. We must live understanding that our motives for what we do will be judged (1 Corinthians 13:1-3 shares this idea). One can do the right things but with a wrong heart. God will often still use that person and even bring great blessing through them. Yet in the end, it is as if they did nothing for the Lord because their motives for service did not stand up at the judgment seat of Christ.

iii. Paul presents essentially the same idea in 1 Corinthians 3:12-15, where he speaks of a coming assessment of each one’s work before the Lord. In that passage, he makes it clear that what we do and our motive for doing it will be tested by fire, and the purifying fire of God will burn up everything that was not of Him. We won’t be punished for what was not done rightly unto the Lord; those things will simply be burned up, and it will be as if we never did them. We will simply be rewarded for what remains. Sadly, some will get to heaven thinking they have done great things for God and will find out at the judgment seat of Christ that they really did nothing.

iv. “Appearance before Christ’s tribunal is the privilege of Christians. It is concerned with the assessment of works and, indirectly, of character, not with the determination of destiny; with reward, not status.” (Harris)

 

[cocoa]

iv. “Appearance before Christ’s tribunal is the privilege of Christians. It is concerned with the assessment of works and, indirectly, of character, not with the determination of destiny; with reward, not status.” (Harris)

What are the "works" being assessed? I want be sure to understand how the word is being used, in this instance.

 

[forgiven61]

What are the "works" being assessed? I want be sure to understand how the word is being used, in this instance.

works are things we do after salvation this is a example 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

i will be honest with you imo works can be anything from helping a person out a good scripture

1 John 3:17
But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?

when we speak of works being judged.. i like to use it in this way our motives was what we did done because we truly felt Lead to do it? or was it for show .

sometime back at the church i pastor our insurance company said .. we need to put a new roof on (shingles ) a person i know come to me with a check to help in covering the cost...
granted the church had the money to replace the roof.... THIS PERSON attends another church .. he never published what he did neither did we.. other than telling the church we need to thank him..

the Bible talks about giving your gift in secret ..

so what he done was a type work. works follows salvation.. a work can be anything from giving money because God put it on your heart to do so. you gave but never boasted about it.. a work can be giving someone a ride visiting a shut in.. helping some one out and not expecting anything in return...

so if you help someone out as a christian. its done out of love. but how ever say you have a thousand dollars that you can spare.. you give it to the church a person or a organization that helps people.. you in turn go around bragging what you done expecting a pat to the beck out of pride.. that work will be judged by fire

1 Corinthians 3:10-13​

​

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

i apologize for the rather long explanation . i want to make it understandable. wood hay stubble wrong motives done for show. burns up.. Gold silver precious stone comes through the fire the right motives done out of the love of God

 

[Major]

possible but in my reading of wheat and tares i find nothing that mentions judgement of nations .. we will just have to agree that it is what is move on..

I am sorry to hear that.

The judgment of the nations is seen in Matthew 25:31-46. That is too much to post but the essence is in vers 31 & 32....
31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne; And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goat."

Maybe you did not realize that This judgment, Judgment of The Nations is also called the judgment of The Sheep and The Goats.

After the tribulation, the Lord Jesus will sit in judgment over the Gentile nations. They will be judged according to their treatment of Israel during the tribulation. Those who showed faith in God by treating Israel favorably (giving them aid and comfort during the tribulation) are the “sheep” who will enter into the Millennial Kingdom. Those who followed the Antichrist’s lead and persecuted Israel are the “goats” who will be consigned to hell.

 

[Major]

Ah, now I see your possible objection. You are separating believers from make-believers. You say only the 'believers' will appear at His seat, not the 'make-believers'? While I consider anyone confessing faith in Christ to be a believer. And so, we all must appear at His seat, includes any confessing Christian, whether a good believer or make-believer.

If that is how we disagree, then do you have any Scripture proving that all naming His name, will not be judged by Him at the same time and place?

And if so, then how do we account for the fact that bad deeds will also be mentioned at His judgment seat, along with the good?

So far, I don't see any Scripture of the Lord separating between the believers and make-believers that name His name, before the 'made-believers' all appear at His seat. And also, if only reward for the good is recieved, then once again, why do bad works appear? Shouldn't the Scripture rather say,

2Co 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done (good).


At this point, still half agree, half disagree. I agree that not all naming Christ, are of Christ, even as not all born of Israel, are Israel:

Rom 9:6 For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel

And so they shall not receive the reward of inheritance at Christ's seat.





This is the means of separation between the believers and make-believers. It says nothing of when that separation is made known by the Lord's judgment, whether at His seat or at the GWT.


Once again, we certainly agree on results. No evil servant naming Christ will be resurrected to meet Him in the air. They will be appointed with the hypocrites and reserved to judgment at the GWT.

Anyone naming Christ on earth, either not watching for Him, or even scoffing at His return, will have part in the blessed first resurrection of the saints, and will reign with the Lord for a thousand years.

I have politely asked that you address ONE question at a time. I am unable to respond to the way you are grouping your positions. So then......I will respond to your 1st question.

Actually I do not have a way to separate believers from make believers.....But God did and it was He who said in Matthew 7:21-23........
""Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

These people who are in view are not Muslims, Buddhists, or atheists. These are those who would gladly say, “I am a Christian.” They work their works in Jesus’ name. They pray and heal in Jesus’ name. They preach and teach in Jesus’ name. They build huge churches and ministries in Jesus’ name. They claim a relationship with Him. But they are none of His.

In fact, He sends them away, not with commendation for their good works in His name (and many good works are done in Jesus’ name by false professors), but by disowning their every deed and word. He “never” knew them, nor did they ever truly know Him. They weren’t Christians who lost their salvation. They were never part of the elect of God, chosen before the foundation of the world. They were "Make-Believers".

 

[forgiven61]

Maybe you did not realize that This judgment, Judgment of The Nations is also called the judgment of The Sheep and The Goats.

hold brother let me clarify while i do not have the years of knowledge you have from study.. ( i give honor to them years)


but yes i fully understand the judgment of nations sheeps goats you have went from wheat and tares to judgment of nations.. it appears your putting both as one in the same.

yes the tares being separated and burnt is judgment.. maybe were speaking the same thing.. my focus with wheat and tares is wheat= those truly born again .

tares == those who one might say pretend or even think they are . proverbs there is a way that seems right the tare matth 7 not everyone who say Lord Lord and it can also those who are in disguise to simply device those they can false teachers..

i had a young man some time back come to me after church was over.. he was broken crying telling me how he needed forgiveness.

i asked him if he would like to go to the altar he said yes.. i explained he needed to tell God everything.. i listened to him pray he asked Jesus in to his heart PTL... he stayed coming about 3 or 4 weeks he still lived with his G/F i preached on that and few other things .

if he dont show this sunday it will be 5 weeks .. i fear the seed feel in rocky soil in among thorns or by the way side ..while i am not the judge of who goes and dont.. but as a minister of 26 years i see RED flags. .


to say the least i am a bit disappointed but none of this is my first rodeo . i have seen it many times and sadly there is no fruit seen for evidence of repentance ,

 

[cocoa]

I was baptised in the Catholic Church as an infant.... In 2008.... I got re-baptised in a creek.
I do not believe there was any IMPORTANCE/RELEVANCE in my infant baptism because the Catholic Church does NOT follow BIBLICAL Christianity.

So Catholics aren't Christians? Would you consider them more like Mormons or Jehova's Witnesses?
If the practice isn't biblical, is it Christian?

I'm asking because, worldwide, Christianity is made up of 2.4 billion people and roughly 62% of those people are Catholic and Orthodox. I'm including Orthodox because the theology is similar.


Maybe, I misunderstand what you mean.

 

[cocoa]

works are things we do after salvation this is a example 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

i will be honest with you imo works can be anything from helping a person out a good scripture

1 John 3:17
But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?

when we speak of works being judged.. i like to use it in this way our motives was what we did done because we truly felt Lead to do it? or was it for show .

sometime back at the church i pastor our insurance company said .. we need to put a new roof on (shingles ) a person i know come to me with a check to help in covering the cost...
granted the church had the money to replace the roof.... THIS PERSON attends another church .. he never published what he did neither did we.. other than telling the church we need to thank him..

the Bible talks about giving your gift in secret ..

so what he done was a type work. works follows salvation.. a work can be anything from giving money because God put it on your heart to do so. you gave but never boasted about it.. a work can be giving someone a ride visiting a shut in.. helping some one out and not expecting anything in return...

so if you help someone out as a christian. its done out of love. but how ever say you have a thousand dollars that you can spare.. you give it to the church a person or a organization that helps people.. you in turn go around bragging what you done expecting a pat to the beck out of pride.. that work will be judged by fire

1 Corinthians 3:10-13​

​

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

I appreciate you being thorough!! Thank you!
Okay, I did some reading offline and I see my mistake! I said in another post that baptism was a work and went back and looked that I was incorrect about it being a "work" (even according to the Catholic teaching). Praise the Lord, I've been corrected.

Now, in regards to us being judged by our works, this is where James 2:24 comes in, right?
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. KJV

The works mention in v.24 are the same works we will be judged by?

 

[In Awe of Him]

So Catholics aren't Christians? Would you consider them more like Mormons or Jehova's Witnesses?
If the practice isn't biblical, is it Christian?

I'm asking because, worldwide, Christianity is made up of 2.4 billion people and roughly 62% of those people are Catholic and Orthodox. I'm including Orthodox because the theology is similar.

The definition of a Christian is someone who has accepted the FINISHED work of CHRIST on the CROSS... and so I am unable to judge the state of salvation of individual Catholics.

What I am saying is that it is my opinion that the Roman Catholic Church is a CULT that label themselves the ONE TRUE CHURCH.
The teachings within this organization are NOT biblical.... and do NOT lead to SALVATION.

 

[forgiven61]

I said in another post that baptism was a work

it could be considered a type work depending how one looks at it.. baptism is important but it does nOt save .. but its not a type work to be judged by..

Now, in regards to us being judged by our works, this is where James 2:24 comes in, right?
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. KJV

very well possible in a nut shell james is telling us faith works..

Revelation 14:13
And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
what is there works ? i consider the legacy they left behind.. the important thing in our life is the dash.... i was born in june of 1961 so when i pass away it will be june 1961 - D.OD the dash represents what we did with our life lets say for you your a church greeter and willing to help others out where you can.. that is your dash

 

[forgiven61]

The definition of a Christian is someone who has accepted the FINISHED work of CHRIST on the CROSS... and so I am unable to judge the state of salvation of individual Catholics.

What I am saying is that it is my opinion that the Roman Catholic Church is a CULT that label themselves the ONE TRUE CHURCH.
The teachings within this organization are NOT biblical.... and do NOT lead to SALVATION.

your not to far off

 

[Major]

hold brother let me clarify while i do not have the years of knowledge you have from study.. ( i give honor to them years)


but yes i fully understand the judgment of nations sheeps goats you have went from wheat and tares to judgment of nations.. it appears your putting both as one in the same.

yes the tares being separated and burnt is judgment.. maybe were speaking the same thing.. my focus with wheat and tares is wheat= those truly born again .

tares == those who one might say pretend or even think they are . proverbs there is a way that seems right the tare matth 7 not everyone who say Lord Lord and it can also those who are in disguise to simply device those they can false teachers..

i had a young man some time back come to me after church was over.. he was broken crying telling me how he needed forgiveness.

i asked him if he would like to go to the altar he said yes.. i explained he needed to tell God everything.. i listened to him pray he asked Jesus in to his heart PTL... he stayed coming about 3 or 4 weeks he still lived with his G/F i preached on that and few other things .

if he dont show this sunday it will be 5 weeks .. i fear the seed feel in rocky soil in among thorns or by the way side ..while i am not the judge of who goes and dont.. but as a minister of 26 years i see RED flags. .


to say the least i am a bit disappointed but none of this is my first rodeo . i have seen it many times and sadly there is no fruit seen for evidence of repentance ,

I apologize. Didn't mean to confuse anyone. Actually, Yes.....The judgment of nations and the sheep & goats Judgment are the same event.

So, Matthew 25:31-46 follows Matthew 24:29-31. The tribulation occurs before the Second Coming of Christ, which is followed by the Sheep and Goat Judgment/Judge of the Nations.

The sheep and goat judgment is for those who are living according to Matthew 25:31.

Then In Revelation 20:4-15, we see that there are two resurrections – for dead people. At the end of Revelation 19:20-2, we find that living persons who received the mark of the beast and who worshipped his image will be immediately judged. This is the time of the Sheep and Goat judgment will occur.

 

[Major]

So Catholics aren't Christians? Would you consider them more like Mormons or Jehova's Witnesses?
If the practice isn't biblical, is it Christian?

I'm asking because, worldwide, Christianity is made up of 2.4 billion people and roughly 62% of those people are Catholic and Orthodox. I'm including Orthodox because the theology is similar.


Maybe, I misunderstand what you mean.

Allow me to say that the definition of a Christian is not based on anything except placing faith alone in Jesus and accepting Him as your Savior and Lord. If a person believes this, then they are a Christian. The Bible says that A person becomes a Christian by placing faith in Christ by believing that He died for their sin, was buried, and rose again on the 3rd day.

Catholicism has many teachings not found in the Bible, such as purgatory, sacrements, repeating the Rosary, veneration of Mary, the Immaculate Conception of Mary, among many others.

It doesn't matter what denomination a person is a part of, placing faith in Jesus alone is the only way a person is a Christian.

Now then, may I say something we all know......"Birds of a feather flock together".

Personally I will say what I have always said......The Catholic religion is NOT Bible Christianity, but it is a religion unto itself.