Liberalism Is Destroying The Church!

In Awe of Him said:
This thought just crossed my mind...

How much of this BAD THEOLOGY problem comes from the fact that many pastors are SELF-PROCLAIMED and have NO real schooling in theology? They claim to be CALLED by GOD to be pastors.... but yet have NO FORMAL education.

A person who CLAIMS to be a pastor should be OBLIGED to provide where they got their BIBLICAL teachings and what DEGREES they have... such as a MASTERS in DIVINITY etc.

A DOCTOR has to have their credentials posted in their office. There needs to be a HIGHER standard set aside for pastors.

Another issue is their ACCOUNTABILITY to the FLOCK... and their humility or lack there of.

There are so many ways we can protect ourselves against BAD TEACHINGS.
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For the most part, especially in today’s world, you make a good point. However, there are exceptions in which God gives a special anointing to preachers with no formal seminary training. Two notable examples are Dwight L. Moody and Charles Spurgeon.

Edited to add: Most of the liberal, apostate preachers have seminary educations. Many of them hold doctorate degrees, but they've been educated in liberal, apostate institutions such as Harvard and Yale divinity schools. There are many apostate seminaries out there, especially the ones serving the liberal apostate denominations.
 
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BibleLover said:
For the most part, especially in today’s world, you make a good point. However, there are exceptions in which God gives a special anointing to preachers with no formal seminary training. Two notable examples are Dwight L. Moody and Charles Spurgeon.
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I absolutely agree with this.... but it is the EXCEPTION and not the rule....Another place I am thinking of ??? is perhaps in areas that are very remote... the countries where missionaries are being sent.

God will always ensure and give a way for His Word to be taught.

Here in North America however.... in my opinion.... it is CRUCIAL to nowadays have pastors who have been FORMALLY and PROPERLY educated in DOCTRINE.

The two churches I attended ( outside the Catholic Church ) both had SELF-APPOINTED pastors. I would NEVER attend these churches today.

Sadly.... it is also my opinion that this is a very dangerous thing.... BECAUSE.....NEW BELIEVERS do not KNOW to ask the right questions. They do not generally seek to read the "mission statements" or the "What we believe" statements before attending.

Another problem I have seen... and I know this because.... When the Ravi Zacharias scandal broke out... I was so deeply distraught and disturbed that I contacted the lawyer who brought his false education credentials to light. He was claiming to be more educated than he was... tying himself to different universities that he never really attended ( It's more complicated than that and this does NOT even include the sexual allegations which were brought to light AFTERWARDS. )

That lawyer ( who was an atheist )... was kind enough to get back to me... My message to him was to say THANK YOU for exposing the darkness and bringing it to light. I introduced myself as a Christian.... who was deeply saddened and disturbed that this was NOT dealt with by the CHRISTIANS.

So.... there are a plethora of problems with the MODERN CHRISTIAN CHURCH today.... ACCOUNTABILITY is HUGE.... These mega pastors are living luxurious lives with NO ACCOUNTABLITY.

Since the Ravi Zacharias scandal.... I learned to trust NO ONE with a TITLE. ANYONE can print off a FAKE certificate for something.

Did you know that this morning.... I graduated from medical school??? I will take out your ASPARAGUS for FREE.... I need the practice.
Just saying.... HAHA
 
I just found the letter that I wrote to the lawyer regarding the exposition of Ravi Zacharias.

I thought it might be of interest to include it here. I will not reveal the name of this man as I don't want to involve him... but if asked... ( because I am posting a statement .. I will gladly share his name in private message ).

There are NO words to express how DISTRAUGHT I was when one of our LEADERS/TEACHERS/PASTORS had this huge fall from grace. I loved this man.... I was in AWE of how he could explain scripture.

I know I have BARKED loudly with regards to BAD DOCTRINE.... but it is so important... and it MUST BEGIN with the PASTOR/TEACHER/LEADER.

I am so ASHAMED that it took an ATHEIST to reveal DARKNESS within the church. THAT is NOT how it is supposed to be.

WE need to WAKE up.... HUMBLE ourselves.... KNOW ourselves... BE HONEST with ourselves so that TRUTH can SHINE forth to the unbelieving world.

This letter is long... so please don't complain that my post is too long. It was written February 8th, 2021. I decided to write to this man as a way to handle my DEEP GRIEF.... I did not expect an answer.... and I was blessed to receive an acknowledgement from him. I chose to write to him because he made this public statement... and it STUNG me.

There were only two responses open to me. I could shrug my shoulders and move on, ("Sigh,... evangelists will be evangelists.") Or I could document and publicize RZ's deceit. I chose the latter, not in the naive hope that my work would lead to RZ's demise. Rather I hoped that exposing RZ would raise critical awareness on the part of pew-warmers in churches and universities, at least in my own country. "Be on guard; there really are charming preachers who will deceive you!" It was also my hope that the RZ scandal would prompt the professional Christian press to begin a thorough discussion of credential-padding by evangelists. This is a serious and widespread problem.

Good morning to you, (name withheld ).

I am not quite sure why I find myself writing to you at this time... as I do not know you... I have just found out about you within the last few hours via the Ravi Zacharias scandal.
I have listened to a few of your musical videos... and oh my... what TALENT you have... It is a beautiful thing.

The above is from your Ravi web-site... and I highlighted the two parts that I found myself gravitating towards... Please excuse my simplicity in communication... as although I am a Christian... I have to admit that I don't like many of them very much myself... so you and I seem to have this much in common.

I have only just found out about this scandal.. I always seem to be the LAST to know... but my life is rather sheltered... in that I am a self proclaimed recluse. My name is ...... and I just turned 58 at the end of January. Blah Blah Blah.

I would like to personally THANK you for exposing Ravi's hypocrisy for the world to see. I mean this very sincerely... and most tenderly. I say this with yet a crushing of heart-break... upon finding out these truths... as I found his ability to explain the Christian faith and argue to it's validity to be a GIFT of special kind. I have spent hours listening to this man speak on Christian radio... and have most often walked away in AWE of his great wisdom and knowledge.... YET... I am faced with the reality that his gift did not SAVE him from his sins. He has died the death of an imposter... and has completely destroyed a legacy that could have made a profound impact on Christianity... INSTEAD... his stain of unrepentant sin has been left for all the remaining Christians to absorb. It reminds me of a tree that takes 100 years to grow and literally 3 seconds to be struck down by lightening.

I do not mind absorbing the embarrassment of this... because it is WRONG... it is SHAMEFUL.. it is WICKED... it is DISHONEST... and it is HYPOCRISY in it's finest form. I don't have a problem owning the TRUTH of what his life was... and I agree that the bigger problem is that so many in the Christian world... let him get away with it... by NOT asking the proper questions... Right off the bat... one of my first questions in reading the report was Why on earth would a CHRISTIAN own or have share holdings in a massage parlour?? It makes absolutely NO sense to me... that would have and should have been a huge RED FLAG.

I hope that what you have uncovered as truth will allow the CHRISTIAN world to rise up and own their hypocrisy and lack of accountability. I hope that all senior leaders within this organization are able to humble themselves and come clean with what they knew and when they knew it. I hope that TRUTH comes out completely... because then and only then can this ministry even stand a chance at surviving... Most of all... I hope that the Christian world will LEARN that it is their job to live according to what they preach. That is a sad statement to make... but it is the truth... We are all subject to failing... Christians and non-Christians alike... the bible calls Christians to live to a higher standard.... yet we do not seem to know how to work that out... and sadly... as you have pointed out... we have FAILED miserably... yet once again.

This issue of which you have tried to shine the light upon... the issue of credentials and honesty in education... seems to be a problem in the evangelical circles... everyone seems to be a Dr. nowadays... when in all reality these are honorary/phony titles given to famous people who have a lot of followers...none of this has to do with TRUTH. This is indeed something that the Christian world should be made aware of... and in future... be careful of. I had no idea that Ravi had done this. It is WRONG and indeed deceptive... and as you have pointed out... a slap in the face to those who have actually laboured in acquiring REAL doctorates and PhD's.

I am sorry that you had to work so hard to uncover something that was not only was RZIM's job... but also the entire CHRISTIAN church... There is indeed a problem... a big problem within the church... a problem with accountability... and a problem with what that means... It seems when someone rises to stardom... they are bound to fall from grace... it happens almost every time... and yet we never seem to learn how to avoid it.

I think the biggest problem is that what people are calling Evangelical Christianity... is NOT Christianity at all... the likes of all these charlatans proclaiming and naming things... and using Jesus as their poster boy... is REVOLTING to say the least... and once again.. has NOTHING to do with real Christianity.

So... I stand before you as a believer in Christ... and I want you to know that none of this is o.k. ( you already know this... but I need to say it to you )... and none of it is excusable... Ravi was not just a man who sinned ( as we all do )... He was a man who chose to deceive the world... simply because he could... He was a man who lived the life of a representative of Christ... yet somewhere along the way... forgot to remember that he NEEDED the Saviour of which he was proclaiming to represent. That was Ravi's biggest sin.

When something like this happens... it rocks the Christian world... It shakes things up... and every time it happens... it presents an opportunity to come CLEAN and get real. Perhaps this time... what you have done will make a difference... a real difference.. and then both you and I will get what we want... JUSTICE and TRUTH.

My faith in Christianity is not shaken... it is actually strengthened... because I see that God will not be mocked... that HIS promise to bring all darkness to light is fulfilled... each and every time something like this is exposed... There is a scripture that states... to those who are given much... much is required... and that is the template of which preachers and teachers of the gospel are placed upon. Those who fall are those who refuse to be humble and honest with who they are and where they're at.

Know thyself is very overlooked and understudied in my opinion.

Thank you for taking the time to read this if you have... lol
If not... somehow I feel better having shared my heart with you.

Tenderly, my name.
 
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In Awe of Him said:
How much of this BAD THEOLOGY problem comes from the fact that many pastors are SELF-PROCLAIMED and have NO real schooling in theology? They claim to be CALLED by GOD to be pastors.... but yet have NO FORMAL education.
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I don't necessarily disagree with you but if you follow this train of thought to its source you'll find a single authority standing there. Five hundred years of Protestantism undone.
 
In Awe of Him said:
They do not generally seek to read the "mission statements" or the "What we believe" statements before attending.
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I feel like some churches don't address social issues. Specifically non denominational churches, I know that many mainline/ denominational churches outwardly express that they are LGBT affirming or pro-choice or not. But it seems that a lot of non denominational churches don't say they're for it, but they don't say they are against certain issues as well. It's like a don't ask, don't tell situation.

Its definitely important to research and it would be nice if new Christians really had someone to lead them; I know that some do, but I feel like too many get left out of the ..."and make deciples" part.
 
In Awe of Him said:
When something like this happens... it rocks the Christian world... It shakes things up... and every time it happens... it presents an opportunity to come CLEAN and get real. Perhaps this time... what you have done will make a difference... a real difference.. and then both you and I will get what we want... JUSTICE and TRUTH.
Click to expand...
I remember being so shocked to find out about Ravi Z. I remember hearing him on the radio as a youth. I feel terribly for those who suffered under his actions.
I know that "church hurt" is a big claim amongst many, I pray that the victims and those influenced by his radio ministry, find peace in our Lord, in spite of what happened.
 
Major said:
Liberal teaching has manifested itself all through the Christian. In fact, Liberalism is the main reason why there are so many Christian denominations. Allow me to list just some of the teachings done by liberal theologian over the years and allow you to decide if you think that those teachings have affect you:

1) The Bible is not “God-breathed” and has errors.
2 Timothy 3:16-17...." “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”

2) The virgin birth of Christ is a mythological false teaching.
Isaiah 7:14......"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.".

3) Jesus did not rise again from the grave in bodily form.
Romans 8:11...."If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you."

4) Jesus was just a good moral teacher.
He’s not a great teacher at all. He’s a lunatic or a liar. As C.S. Lewis properly put it, “He did not leave the other option open to us. He did not intend to.”

5) Hell is not real.
Luke 16:22-23......."And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom."

6) The most important thing for man to do is to “love” his neighbor.
What is the loving thing to do in any situation is not what the Bible says is good but what the liberal theologians decide is good. This denies the doctrine of total depravity, which states that man is incapable of doing anything good and loving.

That is SIX and you can probably come up with 50 more. The Word of God speaks of a time when men will have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof in 2 Timothy 3:5.

That my dear friends, that is what liberal theology does in that it says that there is some inner goodness in man that does not require a rebirth by the Holy Spirit through faith in Christ. And it speaks against those who would serve idols instead of the one true God (1 Chronicles 16:26)—which liberal Christianity does in that it creates a false god according to someones own liking rather than worshiping God as He is described in the whole of the Bible.
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I think that its the sign of us now officially into the Post Modern era, as there is no longer any objective truth, but all subjective to what each thinks is right in their own eyes
 
LearningToLetGo said:
Who controls the schools? Who maintains orthodoxy?
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Can I have one more clue??? HAHAHA. Who controls the schools??? Here in Canada... I think it's the government.... Who maintains orthodoxy?? What does that mean..... Man oh man.... I should have just SHUT up..... I am really showing my stupidity. HAHAHAHA
 
In Awe of Him said:
I think the biggest problem is that what people are calling Evangelical Christianity... is NOT Christianity at all... the likes of all these charlatans proclaiming and naming things... and using Jesus as their poster boy... is REVOLTING to say the least... and once again.. has NOTHING to do with real Christianity.
Click to expand...
 
In Awe of Him said:
Can I have one more clue??? HAHAHA. Who controls the schools??? Here in Canada... I think it's the government.... Who maintains orthodoxy?? What does that mean..... Man oh man.... I should have just SHUT up..... I am really showing my stupidity. HAHAHAHA
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For about 12 - 13 centuries before Martin Luther, the Vatican controlled both the schools and orthodoxy. Rome even convened the councils that decided which books would be included in the Bible. Since about 1520, starting with Martin Luther, there has been a schism in the church, creating what we now know as Protestantism. Even today we see that schism widening with dozens or more denominations.

I see the problem. We need uniformity of teaching. But under whose leadership?
 
LearningToLetGo said:
For about 12 - 13 centuries before Martin Luther, the Vatican controlled both the schools and orthodoxy. Rome even convened the councils that decided which books would be included in the Bible. Since about 1520, starting with Martin Luther, there has been a schism in the church, creating what we now know as Protestantism. Even today we see that schism widening with dozens or more denominations.
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I SEE... said the blind man. HAHA. This is very interesting to me.

When I think of Christianity... I don't include the Catholic church... and the Catholic church does not include ANY protestant denomination.... so there is stale mate there.... and NO... I am not saying Catholics are NOT saved... I am saying Catholicism does not save.

I agree that Protestantism has slowly been watered down to fit the agendas of modern society.... however... I do consider the first breaking away by Martin Luther as NECESSITY to separate the CHURCH away from Catholicism.

This is a complex issue and I do understand that. I just think sometimes we get so caught up in debating things that we miss the forest for the trees.
 
In Awe of Him said:
This is a complex issue and I do understand that. I just think sometimes we get so caught up in debating things that we miss the forest for the trees.
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Indeed. It's also a quite passionate issue, with easily heated tempers. It's fairly easy to spot the kooks and crooks, but there is much disagreement even among honest people. I don't see how to change that. I'm not sure we should since debate invites thought whereas uniformity stagnates.
 
In Awe of Him said:
I absolutely agree with this.... but it is the EXCEPTION and not the rule....Another place I am thinking of ??? is perhaps in areas that are very remote... the countries where missionaries are being sent.

God will always ensure and give a way for His Word to be taught.

Here in North America however.... in my opinion.... it is CRUCIAL to nowadays have pastors who have been FORMALLY and PROPERLY educated in DOCTRINE.

The two churches I attended ( outside the Catholic Church ) both had SELF-APPOINTED pastors. I would NEVER attend these churches today.

Sadly.... it is also my opinion that this is a very dangerous thing.... BECAUSE.....NEW BELIEVERS do not KNOW to ask the right questions. They do not generally seek to read the "mission statements" or the "What we believe" statements before attending.

Another problem I have seen... and I know this because.... When the Ravi Zacharias scandal broke out... I was so deeply distraught and disturbed that I contacted the lawyer who brought his false education credentials to light. He was claiming to be more educated than he was... tying himself to different universities that he never really attended ( It's more complicated than that and this does NOT even include the sexual allegations which were brought to light AFTERWARDS. )

That lawyer ( who was an atheist )... was kind enough to get back to me... My message to him was to say THANK YOU for exposing the darkness and bringing it to light. I introduced myself as a Christian.... who was deeply saddened and disturbed that this was NOT dealt with by the CHRISTIANS.

So.... there are a plethora of problems with the MODERN CHRISTIAN CHURCH today.... ACCOUNTABILITY is HUGE.... These mega pastors are living luxurious lives with NO ACCOUNTABLITY.

Since the Ravi Zacharias scandal.... I learned to trust NO ONE with a TITLE. ANYONE can print off a FAKE certificate for something.

Did you know that this morning.... I graduated from medical school??? I will take out your ASPARAGUS for FREE.... I need the practice.
Just saying.... HAHA
Click to expand...
In Awe of Him said:
I just found the letter that I wrote to the lawyer regarding the exposition of Ravi Zacharias.

I thought it might be of interest to include it here. I will not reveal the name of this man as I don't want to involve him... but if asked... ( because I am posting a statement .. I will gladly share his name in private message ).

There are NO words to express how DISTRAUGHT I was when one of our LEADERS/TEACHERS/PASTORS had this huge fall from grace. I loved this man.... I was in AWE of how he could explain scripture.

I know I have BARKED loudly with regards to BAD DOCTRINE.... but it is so important... and it MUST BEGIN with the PASTOR/TEACHER/LEADER.

I am so ASHAMED that it took an ATHEIST to reveal DARKNESS within the church. THAT is NOT how it is supposed to be.

WE need to WAKE up.... HUMBLE ourselves.... KNOW ourselves... BE HONEST with ourselves so that TRUTH can SHINE forth to the unbelieving world.

This letter is long... so please don't complain that my post is too long. It was written February 8th, 2021. I decided to write to this man as a way to handle my DEEP GRIEF.... I did not expect an answer.... and I was blessed to receive an acknowledgement from him. I chose to write to him because he made this public statement... and it STUNG me.

There were only two responses open to me. I could shrug my shoulders and move on, ("Sigh,... evangelists will be evangelists.") Or I could document and publicize RZ's deceit. I chose the latter, not in the naive hope that my work would lead to RZ's demise. Rather I hoped that exposing RZ would raise critical awareness on the part of pew-warmers in churches and universities, at least in my own country. "Be on guard; there really are charming preachers who will deceive you!" It was also my hope that the RZ scandal would prompt the professional Christian press to begin a thorough discussion of credential-padding by evangelists. This is a serious and widespread problem.

Good morning to you, (name withheld ).

I am not quite sure why I find myself writing to you at this time... as I do not know you... I have just found out about you within the last few hours via the Ravi Zacharias scandal.
I have listened to a few of your musical videos... and oh my... what TALENT you have... It is a beautiful thing.

The above is from your Ravi web-site... and I highlighted the two parts that I found myself gravitating towards... Please excuse my simplicity in communication... as although I am a Christian... I have to admit that I don't like many of them very much myself... so you and I seem to have this much in common.

I have only just found out about this scandal.. I always seem to be the LAST to know... but my life is rather sheltered... in that I am a self proclaimed recluse. My name is ...... and I just turned 58 at the end of January. Blah Blah Blah.

I would like to personally THANK you for exposing Ravi's hypocrisy for the world to see. I mean this very sincerely... and most tenderly. I say this with yet a crushing of heart-break... upon finding out these truths... as I found his ability to explain the Christian faith and argue to it's validity to be a GIFT of special kind. I have spent hours listening to this man speak on Christian radio... and have most often walked away in AWE of his great wisdom and knowledge.... YET... I am faced with the reality that his gift did not SAVE him from his sins. He has died the death of an imposter... and has completely destroyed a legacy that could have made a profound impact on Christianity... INSTEAD... his stain of unrepentant sin has been left for all the remaining Christians to absorb. It reminds me of a tree that takes 100 years to grow and literally 3 seconds to be struck down by lightening.

I do not mind absorbing the embarrassment of this... because it is WRONG... it is SHAMEFUL.. it is WICKED... it is DISHONEST... and it is HYPOCRISY in it's finest form. I don't have a problem owning the TRUTH of what his life was... and I agree that the bigger problem is that so many in the Christian world... let him get away with it... by NOT asking the proper questions... Right off the bat... one of my first questions in reading the report was Why on earth would a CHRISTIAN own or have share holdings in a massage parlour?? It makes absolutely NO sense to me... that would have and should have been a huge RED FLAG.

I hope that what you have uncovered as truth will allow the CHRISTIAN world to rise up and own their hypocrisy and lack of accountability. I hope that all senior leaders within this organization are able to humble themselves and come clean with what they knew and when they knew it. I hope that TRUTH comes out completely... because then and only then can this ministry even stand a chance at surviving... Most of all... I hope that the Christian world will LEARN that it is their job to live according to what they preach. That is a sad statement to make... but it is the truth... We are all subject to failing... Christians and non-Christians alike... the bible calls Christians to live to a higher standard.... yet we do not seem to know how to work that out... and sadly... as you have pointed out... we have FAILED miserably... yet once again.

This issue of which you have tried to shine the light upon... the issue of credentials and honesty in education... seems to be a problem in the evangelical circles... everyone seems to be a Dr. nowadays... when in all reality these are honorary/phony titles given to famous people who have a lot of followers...none of this has to do with TRUTH. This is indeed something that the Christian world should be made aware of... and in future... be careful of. I had no idea that Ravi had done this. It is WRONG and indeed deceptive... and as you have pointed out... a slap in the face to those who have actually laboured in acquiring REAL doctorates and PhD's.

I am sorry that you had to work so hard to uncover something that was not only was RZIM's job... but also the entire CHRISTIAN church... There is indeed a problem... a big problem within the church... a problem with accountability... and a problem with what that means... It seems when someone rises to stardom... they are bound to fall from grace... it happens almost every time... and yet we never seem to learn how to avoid it.

I think the biggest problem is that what people are calling Evangelical Christianity... is NOT Christianity at all... the likes of all these charlatans proclaiming and naming things... and using Jesus as their poster boy... is REVOLTING to say the least... and once again.. has NOTHING to do with real Christianity.

So... I stand before you as a believer in Christ... and I want you to know that none of this is o.k. ( you already know this... but I need to say it to you )... and none of it is excusable... Ravi was not just a man who sinned ( as we all do )... He was a man who chose to deceive the world... simply because he could... He was a man who lived the life of a representative of Christ... yet somewhere along the way... forgot to remember that he NEEDED the Saviour of which he was proclaiming to represent. That was Ravi's biggest sin.

When something like this happens... it rocks the Christian world... It shakes things up... and every time it happens... it presents an opportunity to come CLEAN and get real. Perhaps this time... what you have done will make a difference... a real difference.. and then both you and I will get what we want... JUSTICE and TRUTH.

My faith in Christianity is not shaken... it is actually strengthened... because I see that God will not be mocked... that HIS promise to bring all darkness to light is fulfilled... each and every time something like this is exposed... There is a scripture that states... to those who are given much... much is required... and that is the template of which preachers and teachers of the gospel are placed upon. Those who fall are those who refuse to be humble and honest with who they are and where they're at.

Know thyself is very overlooked and understudied in my opinion.

Thank you for taking the time to read this if you have... lol
If not... somehow I feel better having shared my heart with you.

Tenderly, my name.
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LearningToLetGo said:
I don't necessarily disagree with you but if you follow this train of thought to its source you'll find a single authority standing there. Five hundred years of Protestantism undone.
Click to expand...
In Awe of Him said:
You got me confused... Can you elaborate please?
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cocoa said:
I feel like some churches don't address social issues. Specifically non denominational churches, I know that many mainline/ denominational churches outwardly express that they are LGBT affirming or pro-choice or not. But it seems that a lot of non denominational churches don't say they're for it, but they don't say they are against certain issues as well. It's like a don't ask, don't tell situation.

Its definitely important to research and it would be nice if new Christians really had someone to lead them; I know that some do, but I feel like too many get left out of the ..."and make deciples" part.
Click to expand...

Good morning, In Awe of Him, LearningToLetGo and cocoa;

The so called "self-proclaimed" ministers, or those who forgo any seminary or pastoral study, most would read what you all posted and ignore you. Perhaps others would feel a sense of conviction and do something about it.

It's true and sad that many ministers whether local or celebratory will fabricate their formal study, training and ministry experience. The effects of that is, in time they become limited in delivering the sermon, commentary or presentation because they didn't respect the "noble task" of "continued self growth" in their calling while tending to the sheep.

I learned that when a minister (gets puffed up) and shows how much he/she knows to the world, they also expose how much they don't know.

As Christians the best remedy for us all is to continuously pray for all Christian ministers. The ones who are truly called by God utilize all tools necessary to be equipped in the ministry they are called. The ones who are not called by God, sooner or later will be exposed one way or another.

Praise God there are transparent ministers who are anointed and as BibleLover shared didn't attend any kind of formal study. These are the servants God will always equip with (HIs) unlimited teaching, preaching, ministering to the suffering and successful, doing short or long term missionary work as well as continuing their self growth as a believer and ministry.

God empowers us with wisdom and discernment. Go to that minister and ask them direct about their background. Should there be a flag then you will know whether to be discipled or move on. My prayer is you will get confirmation that you are receiving solid teaching or preaching of God's Word.

God bless you all.

Bob
 
Unfortunately, one can go online and for a small fee get their certificate that allows them to perform all the duties of a pastor. My nephew got one so that he could perform the wedding for one of his friends. Yes, the states recognize it as a legitimate certification! I went to the same web site and if I had paid their fee I would have been certified that day. This is a slap in the face to all who are called to pastor a church. I have never been to seminary and not sure I want to go to one in this day and age. I teach from the bible and ask GOD for HIS guidance before I study and before I present HIS word.
 
Dave F. said:
This is a slap in the face to all who are called to pastor a church.
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That was my point.... that IS the point.... and the other point is PEOPLE..... DO YOUR HOMEWORK... It's each and every one's RESPONSIBILITY to ensure that their churches are truly bible based.
 
Dave F. said:
Unfortunately, one can go online and for a small fee get their certificate that allows them to perform all the duties of a pastor. My nephew got one so that he could perform the wedding for one of his friends. Yes, the states recognize it as a legitimate certification! I went to the same web site and if I had paid their fee I would have been certified that day. This is a slap in the face to all who are called to pastor a church. I have never been to seminary and not sure I want to go to one in this day and age. I teach from the bible and ask GOD for HIS guidance before I study and before I present HIS word.
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Hello Dave F.;

You have shown yourself as a man of God who studies the Bible and I personally have learned from you here at CFS. I also know you teach Bible study or Sunday School.

I'm curious. Why would you not want to attend seminary, perhaps not a full Masters program but take one or two classes?

God bless you, brother.

Bob


 
In Awe of Him said:
When I think of Christianity... I don't include the Catholic church... and the Catholic church does not include ANY protestant denomination.... so there is stale mate there.... and NO... I am not saying Catholics are NOT saved... I am saying Catholicism does not save.
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You're saying 2 things here... if and when youre thinking about Christianity but don't include Catholics... how can Catholics also be saved, if Catholicism doesn't save? If your generous enough to include them in salvation then they must be included in Christianity because only Christians can be saved.

Also Catholics believe protestant are brothers and sisters in Christ. The orthodox, have a more complex view of Protestants.
 
bobinfaith said:
I'm curious. Why would you not want to attend seminary, perhaps not a full Masters program but take one or two classes?
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Because some of the seminaries are teaching liberalism and I don't know which ones are good and which are not, I would rather just let the Holy Spirit lead me. I do use trusted commentaries in my studies such as Matthew Henry, Adam Clarke, J. Vernon Mcgee and David Guzik.
 
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