Is Total Victory over Sin Possible?

Hobie

Hobie

We have many who say they can't or won't stop sinning even to when Jesus appears at the Second Coming. Are we able to overcome or not?

When the Bible says let "he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: ' does this mean we can stay full of iniquity

If we keep sinning will Christ make us sinless at the end when we are changed 'in the twinkling of an eye'? Is this verse referring only to our mortal bodies of flesh, or also our sinful lives?

What does the Bible teach. Lets take a look...

Well we see what Christ says when He comes to save the saints on earth...

Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Luke 13:26-27
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
 
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We have this verse given to us....

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

And we have...

Genesis 17:1
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

And Christ Himself says....

Matthew 19:21
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

And then we have this...

John 17:22-24 King James Version (KJV)

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

So is sin too much for us to stop, what does scripture say..

1 Corinthians 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Christ is clear on what we must do..

John 8:11
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

We find that Christ will cut off salvation at the close of probation to those who continue in sin before He comes.
Revelation 22:11
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Notice Christ declares "he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still" and right after it, that He "comes quickly" with every mans reward. And we do not want to be full of sin and fall into His righteous wrath when we face our God...

Hebrews 10:31
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
 
Hobie said:
We have this verse given to us....

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

And we have...

Genesis 17:1
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

And Christ Himself says....

Matthew 19:21
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

And then we have this...

John 17:22-24 King James Version (KJV)

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

So is sin too much for us to stop, what does scripture say..

1 Corinthians 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Christ is clear on what we must do..

John 8:11
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

We find that Christ will cut off salvation at the close of probation to those who continue in sin before He comes.
Revelation 22:11
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Notice Christ declares "he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still" and right after it, that He "comes quickly" with every mans reward. And we do not want to be full of sin and fall into His righteous wrath when we face our God...

Hebrews 10:31
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Click to expand...
Hobie, remember there are two categories of sin and that ANY disobedience of a direction from the Holy Spirit is a sin, whether by COMMISSION or OMISSION. Also, remember sin can be committed by thoughts not just deeds. God has established such a high bar of holiness that if a human being could be as holy as God, he would be God. We, as saved Christians undergoing the sanctification process is strive to be holy, but being imperfect beings will not always be successful. We might ignore a beggar on the street (sin by omission), not witness to a fellow airline passenger in the next seat (sin by omission), shout in frustration at another freeway driver (sin by commission), drive 45 mph in a 30 mph speed zone (sin by commission), or take an extra long look at an attractive passerby on the sidewalk (sin by thought).

You see, sin takes many forms which confront us every day, and failure is easy. Thank God for the Holy Spirit!
 
Hobie said:
We have many who say they can't or won't stop sinning even to when Jesus appears at the Second Coming. Are we able to overcome or not? When the Bible says let "he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: ' does this mean we can stay full of iniquity If we keep sinning will Christ make us sinless at the end when we are changed 'in the twinkling of an eye'? Is this verse referring only to our mortal bodies of flesh, or also our sinful lives? What does the Bible teach. Lets take a look...Well we see what Christ says when He comes to save the saints on earth...
Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Luke 13:26-27
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
Click to expand...

Good morning, Hobie;

The "We have many who say they can't or won't stop sinning even to when Jesus appears at the Second Coming" are in fact correct.

My personal walk with Christ has not been without all the mud (sin, transgressions and iniquities) that I've gotten on my shirt. It would be nice after all these years if I could repent for the last time and then spend the rest of my days "sinless." It's not going to happen.

Two examples of walking in obedience and repenting are sacrifices. Is walking in obedience with Christ easy? Is repenting of our sin fun? No to both.

When God sees our sacrifices He builds us up and matures us to minimize our sin daily. This empowers and equips us to effectively witness to those who cross our path that may be experiencing the same struggles we face.

When we sustain our daily relationship with Christ helps minimize our sin. An example, tomorrow I may get filled with anger and murderous thoughts of violence toward those who disrespect human life. (Without anyone noticing,) I have sinned in my heart reference Matthew 15:18-19, catch myself and immediately go to the Father and repent.

This is my story daily, and can take this in sharing the Gospel to others who know and may not know Jesus.

Hobie, I'm encouraging you to address your questions and provide the verb of this thread, and how it aligns with the context of the Scriptures.

God bless you, brother.

Bob
 
Hobie said:
We have this verse given to us....

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

And we have...

Genesis 17:1
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

And Christ Himself says....

Matthew 19:21
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

And then we have this...

John 17:22-24 King James Version (KJV)

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

So is sin too much for us to stop, what does scripture say..

1 Corinthians 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Christ is clear on what we must do..

John 8:11
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

We find that Christ will cut off salvation at the close of probation to those who continue in sin before He comes.
Revelation 22:11
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Notice Christ declares "he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still" and right after it, that He "comes quickly" with every mans reward. And we do not want to be full of sin and fall into His righteous wrath when we face our God...

Hebrews 10:31
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Click to expand...
Hobie, the word  perfect carries more than one meaning, depending on context. You're applying the one meaning, "to be without error" to every occurrence of the word, regardless of context. Another meaning of the word is "to be complete or mature" which applies to the context of some of your cited verses.
 
BibleLover said:
That is a Wesleyan tradition view of sanctification. I once heard a Christian from a Wesleyan tradition denomination say, "I'm saved and sanctified; I haven't sinned in 20 years." All I could think of at the time was, "Now he chooses to do a whopper!"
Click to expand...
When someone tells me that they are now sinless since they were saved..........I ask them, may I talk to your wife for about 5 minutes???
 
Hobie said:
We have many who say they can't or won't stop sinning even to when Jesus appears at the Second Coming. Are we able to overcome or not?

When the Bible says let "he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: ' does this mean we can stay full of iniquity

If we keep sinning will Christ make us sinless at the end when we are changed 'in the twinkling of an eye'? Is this verse referring only to our mortal bodies of flesh, or also our sinful lives?

What does the Bible teach. Lets take a look...

Well we see what Christ says when He comes to save the saints on earth...

Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Luke 13:26-27
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
Click to expand...
"Is Total Victory Over Sin Possible" is what you asked.

Yes and NO!

Yes. When we die and go to heaven or the Rapture takes us to heaven. In either case we immediately receive a glorified spirit and can stand in front of God.

NO. Not as long as we live in these bodies.

Even without studying what the Bible says about the possibility of sinlessness, simple observation of people attempting to live the Christian life without sinning, causes me to be absolutely convinced that sinlessness is an absolutely impossibility.

Then when we actually read the Bible, we see rather quickly that every single person in the Bible had flaws except the Lord Jesus.

1 John 1:8.........
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us".
The apostle whom Jesus loved recognized that he was not sinless, and apparently did not even consider the idea that someone to whom he was writing might be sinless.

Nowhere does the Bible say that a Christian in this life will ever be completely perfect—that is, free from all sin.
Sometimes we sin by our actions; sometimes by our motives. Often we sin not because of what we do, but because of what we fail to do. For example, we fail to love or forgive others, or in other ways fail to do things we ought to do—and that is sin.

God said to Christians in 1 John 1:9........
“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness”.

The people in my life whom I would describe as the most spiritually mature, would never claim sinlessness. In fact, part of true spiritual maturity is being cognizant of the subtle sins in your life. True progress in the Christian life is honestly and humbly recognizing how much further you must go.

If you think you have arrived at sinlessness, think again. Unless you have arrived in heaven at the feet of Jesus, you still have work to do.

What you are suggesting is classic Pentecostal false teaching my friend and I say that with all due respect to you, but you have been given some very false teachings.
 
bobinfaith said:
Good morning, Hobie;

The "We have many who say they can't or won't stop sinning even to when Jesus appears at the Second Coming" are in fact correct.

My personal walk with Christ has not been without all the mud (sin, transgressions and iniquities) that I've gotten on my shirt. It would be nice after all these years if I could repent for the last time and then spend the rest of my days "sinless." It's not going to happen.

Two examples of walking in obedience and repenting are sacrifices. Is walking in obedience with Christ easy? Is repenting of our sin fun? No to both.

When God sees our sacrifices He builds us up and matures us to minimize our sin daily. This empowers and equips us to effectively witness to those who cross our path that may be experiencing the same struggles we face.

When we sustain our daily relationship with Christ helps minimize our sin. An example, tomorrow I may get filled with anger and murderous thoughts of violence toward those who disrespect human life. (Without anyone noticing,) I have sinned in my heart reference Matthew 15:18-19, catch myself and immediately go to the Father and repent.

This is my story daily, and can take this in sharing the Gospel to others who know and may not know Jesus.

Hobie, I'm encouraging you to address your questions and provide the verb of this thread, and how it aligns with the context of the Scriptures.

God bless you, brother.

Bob
Click to expand...
Good evening Bob,

My wife has me traveling so on my phone so forgive me for the limited response. Core Christian belief is sinners suffer the wages of sin, and if one continues in sin and iniquity to Christ coming, what is their reward from Him, certainly not the gift of eternal life.
 
Hobie said:
Good evening Bob,

My wife has me traveling so on my phone so forgive me for the limited response. Core Christian belief is sinners suffer the wages of sin, and if one continues in sin and iniquity to Christ coming, what is their reward from Him, certainly not the gift of eternal life.
Click to expand...
Eternal life isn't a reward. No human being can perform anything to deserve it. Sins aren't what keeps people out of heaven. Sinfulness does. And sinfulness is present in people who are unregenerated. And unregenerated people refuse to allow Jesus to be Lord of their lives, thus, they refuse Christ. Sometimes these people pretend to be Christians and join churches. They're good enough liars to convince human beings, but not God.

A person who is truly saved and regenerated doesn't practice a life of sinfulness because God the Holy Spirit won't permit it. The only judgment the fake Christians will see is when they're resurrected along with all other unbelievers where they will be sent to hell.

I don’t know why you keep wanting fake Christians to appear at the BEMA of Jesus. No one at the BEMA is sent to hell because that is the function of the Great White Throne at the 2nd resurrection.
 
BibleLover said:
Eternal life isn't a reward. No human being can perform anything to deserve it. Sins aren't what keeps people out of heaven. Sinfulness does. And sinfulness is present in people who are unregenerated. And unregenerated people refuse to allow Jesus to be Lord of their lives, thus, they refuse Christ. Sometimes these people pretend to be Christians and join churches. They're good enough liars to convince human beings, but not God. A person who is truly saved and regenerated doesn't practice a life of sinfulness because God the Holy Spirit won't permit it. The only judgment the fake Christians will see is when they're resurrected along with all other unbelievers where they will be sent to hell. I don’t know why you keep wanting fake Christians to appear at the BEMA of Jesus. No one at the BEMA is sent to hell because that is the function of the Great White Throne at the 2nd resurrection.
Click to expand...

Hello BibleLover;

I understand, and am with you on this, brother.

For most of us, "eternal life is a reward" is a fair, general statement for all believers who press on for the prize.

But as you share a bit deeper is good reflection because the discipline of obedience and consequences for disobedience plays a huge part in our lifetime walk with Christ.

I'll never be deserving of anything with God but He does search our truthful hearts. Those who are serious disciples will understand this.

God bless you, brother.
 
BibleLover said:
Eternal life isn't a reward. No human being can perform anything to deserve it. Sins aren't what keeps people out of heaven. Sinfulness does. And sinfulness is present in people who are unregenerated. And unregenerated people refuse to allow Jesus to be Lord of their lives, thus, they refuse Christ. Sometimes these people pretend to be Christians and join churches. They're good enough liars to convince human beings, but not God.

A person who is truly saved and regenerated doesn't practice a life of sinfulness because God the Holy Spirit won't permit it. The only judgment the fake Christians will see is when they're resurrected along with all other unbelievers where they will be sent to hell.

I don’t know why you keep wanting fake Christians to appear at the BEMA of Jesus. No one at the BEMA is sent to hell because that is the function of the Great White Throne at the 2nd resurrection.
Click to expand...
My brother, gift, reward, their crown of glory. The Bible is clear what awaits the saints...

Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Matthew 5:12
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

2 Timothy 4:8
Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Revelation 22:12
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

We need to go by the word of God and not our opinions or traditions or private interpretations, He brings us truth and like Him we can rely on it rather than what man gives.
 
BibleLover said:
Hobie, remember there are two categories of sin and that ANY disobedience of a direction from the Holy Spirit is a sin, whether by COMMISSION or OMISSION. Also, remember sin can be committed by thoughts not just deeds. God has established such a high bar of holiness that if a human being could be as holy as God, he would be God. We, as saved Christians undergoing the sanctification process is strive to be holy, but being imperfect beings will not always be successful. We might ignore a beggar on the street (sin by omission), not witness to a fellow airline passenger in the next seat (sin by omission), shout in frustration at another freeway driver (sin by commission), drive 45 mph in a 30 mph speed zone (sin by commission), or take an extra long look at an attractive passerby on the sidewalk (sin by thought).

You see, sin takes many forms which confront us every day, and failure is easy. Thank God for the Holy Spirit!
Click to expand...
We are human and Jesus died for our sins, so that we could be saved and have eternal life. Being "perfect" as God is a difficult concept to get the head around ... help!
 
Hobie said:
My brother, gift, reward, their crown of glory. The Bible is clear what awaits the saints...

Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Matthew 5:12
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

2 Timothy 4:8
Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Revelation 22:12
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

We need to go by the word of God and not our opinions or traditions or private interpretations, He brings us truth and like Him we can rely on it rather than what man gives.
Click to expand...
Hobie, you're conflating gifts with rewards. They are not the same. Gifts are unearned presents. Rewards are payment for services rendered. Don't distort Scripture for the purpose of claiming Scripture supports your personal viewpoint.
 
BibleLover said:
Hobie, you're conflating gifts with rewards. They are not the same. Gifts are unearned presents. Rewards are payment for services rendered. Don't distort Scripture for the purpose of claiming Scripture supports your personal viewpoint.
Click to expand...
At the end, all and that includes every Christian, will have to be judged and get what they deserve accordingly. And if they continue in sin and iniquity, their wages are death, and its the second death and many Christians are afraid because they are not ready and still under the bondage of sin.

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
 
Hobie said:
At the end, all and that includes every Christian, will have to be judged and get what they deserve accordingly. And if they continue in sin and iniquity, their wages are death, and its the second death and many Christians are afraid because they are not ready and still under the bondage of sin.

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Click to expand...
Further into the same chapter we see this...
2 Corinthians 5:17 - 20
17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Since He has reconciled us to Him and made Christ (who knew no sin) to be sin for us, so that we can be made the righteousness of God in Christ
how do you say He will take it away from those who believe and have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior?
The bema seat judgement is for believers (made in His righteousness by God) this is not about salvation as that was already dealt with at the cross.
The great white throne judgement is for those who have rejected (or not accepted) Christ, those who are at this judgement will be cast into the lake of fire.

These are 2 different judgements for 2 different types of people. I believe there will be people who pretended to be Christians that will be in the great white throne judgement because they never actually gave themselves over to Christ.
 
Dave F. said:
Further into the same chapter we see this...
2 Corinthians 5:17 - 20
17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Since He has reconciled us to Him and made Christ (who knew no sin) to be sin for us, so that we can be made the righteousness of God in Christ
how do you say He will take it away from those who believe and have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior?
The bema seat judgement is for believers (made in His righteousness by God) this is not about salvation as that was already dealt with at the cross.
The great white throne judgement is for those who have rejected (or not accepted) Christ, those who are at this judgement will be cast into the lake of fire.

These are 2 different judgements for 2 different types of people. I believe there will be people who pretended to be Christians that will be in the great white throne judgement because they never actually gave themselves over to Christ.
Click to expand...
You forget what Christ says of what even those who claim to be believers...
Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

We tend to look on the outside and think men are just...
Matthew 23:28
Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

We saw that with what He told Samuel..
1 Samuel 16:7
But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.
 
Hobie said:
You forget what Christ says of what even those who claim to be believers...
Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

We tend to look on the outside and think men are just...
Matthew 23:28
Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

We saw that with what He told Samuel..
1 Samuel 16:7
But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.
Click to expand...
Hobie, are you a follower of Pelagian theology? It's beginning to sound like you are.
 
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