Do you Hold to either a Free Grace or a Lordship Salvation view then?

[In Awe of Him]

I think I fell off the track due to the school of thought that ONE must EARN their SALVATION and from that... I decided to FIGHT.... KICK and SCREAM blue murder when anyone DARED to ADD to SALVATION as anything other than a FREE GIFT paid for by CHRIST's PRECIOUS BLOOD.

SO..... there... I stand corrected and accept that there are several parts to the "process of salvation" as being a COMPLETED EVENT at our death = GLORIFICATION.

LOOKIE..... DA SHEEP LEARN(DED) something. HA

 

[YeshuaFan]

 Salvation is a process that consists of 3 sequential elements: justification, sanctification, and glorification.

Justification occurs at the moment we accept Christ and receive the Holy Spirit.

Sanctification is the ongoing process by which we become conformed to the image of Christ. This continues for all of our earthly existence.

Glorification is the ultimate end of salvation. This occurs when we are taken into the direct presence of God following our departure from this existence.

These elements can't be separated from the concept of salvation, nor can they each be viewed in isolation from each other because together they form a unified whole: realized salvation.

very good, but think where does get :muddy" for many is that they confuse justification and sanctification processes, hence we get teachings that seem ti be implying not really saved until received end result, a if on a merit works based probationary period, but the Holy Sealing is the assurance that we shall indeed be finale glorified and receive full inheritance in the end

 

[YeshuaFan]

I think I fell off the track due to the school of thought that ONE must EARN their SALVATION and from that... I decided to FIGHT.... KICK and SCREAM blue murder when anyone DARED to ADD to SALVATION as anything other than a FREE GIFT paid for by CHRIST's PRECIOUS BLOOD.

SO..... there... I stand corrected and accept that there are several parts to the "process of salvation" as being a COMPLETED EVENT at our death = GLORIFICATION.

LOOKIE..... DA SHEEP LEARN(DED) something. HA

We are right now eternal life in Christ, with all spiritual blessings, but have not yet received our full inheritance as heirs of Christ, as that happens when receive out glorified physical bodies

 

[YeshuaFan]

There is a tendency to compartmentalize the three rather than looking at them as a whole.

Which tends to give to us some shoddy theology regarding salvation, ranging from Rome stating that we must first work with Sacramental Gracing in order to merit it in the end, to those such as Sda stating once "saved: put on a probationary period in order to see if we can mature enough to merit keeping and earning it.

 

[In Awe of Him]

We are right now eternal life in Christ, with all spiritual blessings, but have not yet received our full inheritance as heirs of Christ, as that happens when receive out glorified physical bodies

Now that makes sense.... and actually it's all starting to fall into place.

For anyone who is reading this thread.... THIS is how to conduct a GOOD and HEALTHY conversation.
There is room for correction... there is NO condemnation... simply MATURE Christians who with LOVE... choose to
teach DA SHEEP. HAHA.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Now that makes sense.... and actually it's all starting to fall into place.

For anyone who is reading this thread.... THIS is how to conduct a GOOD and HEALTHY conversation.
There is room for correction... there is NO condemnation... simply MATURE Christians who with LOVE... choose to
teach DA SHEEP. HAHA.

There is that tension, as we are right now saved, and right now have eternal life, but are not what we shall be in the final state

 

[cocoa]

 Salvation is a process that consists of 3 sequential elements: justification, sanctification, and glorification.
Sanctification is the ongoing process by which we become conformed to the image of Christ. This continues for all of our earthly existence.

Yes, I agree. Sanctification is particularly important because it is thru this process that we produce fruit.

We let go of bad habits and replace theme with righteous acts/ desires. And this is an important element of salvation. And sanctification is often described as a journey because there are some strongholds that aren't released overnight. Not everyone accepts Christ and stops cussing the very next day. Some of these things the Lord prunes over time as we draw near to Him.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Yes, I agree. Sanctification is particularly important because it is thru this process that we produce fruit.

We let go of bad habits and replace theme with righteous acts/ desires. And this is an important element of salvation. And sanctification is often described as a journey because there are some strongholds that aren't released overnight. Not everyone accepts Christ and stops cussing the very next day. Some of these things the Lord prunes over time as we draw near to Him.

Agreed, as have heard others mentioned as soon as saved, God gave them victory over booze, sex, drugs etc, yet the majority of them seem to say God helping helping them thru the process to get delivered now

 

[bobinfaith]

 Salvation is a process that consists of 3 sequential elements: justification, sanctification, and glorification.
Justification occurs at the moment we accept Christ and receive the Holy Spirit.
Sanctification is the ongoing process by which we become conformed to the image of Christ. This continues for all of our earthly existence.
Glorification is the ultimate end of salvation. This occurs when we are taken into the direct presence of God following our departure from this existence.
These elements can't be separated from the concept of salvation, nor can they each be viewed in isolation from each other because together they form a unified whole: realized salvation.

Yes, I agree. Sanctification is particularly important because it is thru this process that we produce fruit.
We let go of bad habits and replace theme with righteous acts/ desires. And this is an important element of salvation. And sanctification is often described as a journey because there are some strongholds that aren't released overnight. Not everyone accepts Christ and stops cussing the very next day. Some of these things the Lord prunes over time as we draw near to Him.

Good morning, BibleLover and cocoa;

Your posts are important to know and interesting learning. What you shared are growing elements in our relationship with Christ and I agree.

I have a question regarding these elements for everyone;

What does a Christian do when we are swayed from 1 or all 3 of the elements, fall off the road of our faith, rebel, blatantly sin or be tempted toward apostasy?

This may sound fundamental but many Christians don't know the first step and unfortunately, every family and Church going person struggle with this.

God bless everyone.

Bob

 

[BibleLover]

Good morning, BibleLover and cocoa;

Your posts are important to know and interesting learning. What you shared are growing elements in our relationship with Christ and I agree.

I have a question regarding these elements for everyone;

What does a Christian do when we are swayed from 1 or all 3 of the elements, fall off the road of our faith, rebel, blatantly sin or be tempted toward apostasy?

This may sound fundamental but many Christians don't know the first step and unfortunately, every family and Church going person struggle with this.

God bless everyone.

Bob

The only element that I see from which one can stray is sanctification. It is during this process that people are vulnerable to failure. However, if justification has taken place, and temptation has led one astray, we can be assured of God taking the belt to us to bring us back in line.

 

[bobinfaith]

The only element that I see from which one can stray is sanctification. It is during this process that people are vulnerable to failure. However, if justification has taken place, and temptation has led one astray, we can be assured of God taking the belt to us to bring us back in line.

So they all complement and work with each other which can benefit the believer?

 

[BibleLover]

So they all complement and work with each other which can benefit the believer?

As parts of a unified whole they are all inseparable.

 

[cocoa]

What does a Christian do when we are swayed from 1 or all 3 of the elements, fall off the road of our faith, rebel, blatantly sin or be tempted toward apostasy?

The Holy Spirit will tug at us but we have to decide if we'll respond. This is why discipleship is important, Christianity is a communal religion... and I'll stop here before I derail the train.

I think if we really had stronger emphasis on discipleship, I think far less people would find themselves backsliding or just falling by the wayside.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Good morning, BibleLover and cocoa;

Your posts are important to know and interesting learning. What you shared are growing elements in our relationship with Christ and I agree.

I have a question regarding these elements for everyone;

What does a Christian do when we are swayed from 1 or all 3 of the elements, fall off the road of our faith, rebel, blatantly sin or be tempted toward apostasy?

This may sound fundamental but many Christians don't know the first step and unfortunately, every family and Church going person struggle with this.

God bless everyone.

Bob

The good news that God always watches over His own children, but we can repent and confess and return back to the Lord Jesus right after sinning, or drag it along and continue in the sin area, and big danger into doing that will be forcing God to keep upping up on how He deals with us

 

[bobinfaith]

As parts of a unified whole they are all inseparable.

The Holy Spirit will tug at us but we have to decide if we'll respond. This is why discipleship is important, Christianity is a communal religion... and I'll stop here before I derail the train. I think if we really had stronger emphasis on discipleship, I think far less people would find themselves backsliding or just falling by the wayside.

The good news that God always watches over His own children, but we can repent and confess and return back to the Lord Jesus right after sinning, or drag it along and continue in the sin area, and big danger into doing that will be forcing God to keep upping up on how He deals with us

Free Grace or Lordship Salvation are good learning points for Christians who apply Gospel Fluency, but how do most nice neighborhood Churches who have never heard of Free Grace or Lordship Salvation learn it's teachings?

These aren't "gotcha questions" but a serious question.

Bob

 

[YeshuaFan]

Free Grace or Lordship Salvation are good learning points for Christians who apply Gospel Fluency, but how do most nice neighborhood Churches who have never heard of Free Grace or Lordship Salvation learn it's teachings?

These aren't "gotcha questions" but a serious question.

Bob

Zane Hodge main advocate for free grace, with Dr Macarthur for Lordship, and I agree/disagree with both on them on certain points

 

[BibleLover]

Free Grace or Lordship Salvation are good learning points for Christians who apply Gospel Fluency, but how do most nice neighborhood Churches who have never heard of Free Grace or Lordship Salvation learn it's teachings?

These aren't "gotcha questions" but a serious question.

Bob

Use the Book of Romans to teach the congregation. It's all covered in that book.

 

[Major]

One thing I've learned over time is that when two opposing extreme views are posited, they're both wrong, and the truth lies in the middle between them. God is the creator of balance, not only in the universe, but also in reason. Truth is always found in balance, and balance is the tension between extremes. To live in truth we must be comfortable with experiencing tension.

In other words......the truth is found somewhere in the middle!

 

[Major]

Actually its other way around, as Lordship advocates such as Dr Macarthur and Sproul are Calvinists, while Free Grace such as Zane Hodge arminians

50 years ago I had to write a thesis on Free Grace verses Lordship grace. Now it has been awhile since I have considered this but if my memory is correct, the "free grace movement" contends that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

But there is a rub in that There is no repentance and/or turning from sin necessary at the moment of salvation. Saving faith in Christ does not necessarily result in a life of good works, obedience, and following Christ.

"Lordship salvation" contends that while salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, salvation is also a call to turn from a life of embracing sin and rejecting Christ to a life of rejecting sin and embracing Christ.

Saving faith will always and inevitably result in a transformed life of good works, obedience, and following Christ. Spiritual growth is greatly dependent on discipleship, but even an un-discipled believer will exhibit some spiritual fruit. It is not possible for believers to remain in a carnal state of known sin for their entire lives.

From the extremes of both sides of some lordship salvation advocates say that Free Grace is easy believism and/or cheap grace.
Some free grace advocates claim Lordship salvation is a works-based salvation.

For me, I believe that Salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.
I also believe that repentance is a change of mind from an embrace of sin and rejection of Christ into an embrace of Christ and rejection of sin.

 

[cocoa]

From the extremes of both sides of some lordship salvation advocates say that Free Grace is easy believism and/or cheap grace.
Some free grace advocates claim Lordship salvation is a works-based salvation.

Philippians 3: 9-14
Working in our own strength to attempt to attain salvation by merrit is different from earnestly striving for the Lord.

And I think people just think that any effort is works-based when it’s not. We have to be willing participants, and this takes effort. I love the Lord with all of my being but I still have to war against the flesh. I have to fight temptations, I have to actively decide to walk the narrow path.
Striving towards the mark is my understanding of Lordship salvation.