“On the weaponized Christan Defense of the State of Israel”

Yesua888 said:
Hi Bob, Thanks for your response ... would you kindly enlighten me on the following comment: "God's Chosen people ruthlessly annihilated the neighboring countries who worshiped pagan gods, then His people rebelled against the True God. He revealed His wrath and forgiveness, over and over. Today's times are no different. Regardless, we choose God, what the Bible reveals regarding Israel then and today."
Prehaps you can back this up with some scripture or links. Thanks Linda
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cocoa said:
What does the Bible reveal about Israel today?
Click to expand...

Good morning, Yesua888 and cocoa;

I'm happy to. Two examples in the Old Testament are the studies of Isaiah chapters 1-39. Isaiah brought the message of God's judgment against His people in Judah and Jerusalem for their heinous sins, transgressions and iniquity.

At first, the prophet Isaiah was liked by the people but this wore off. They were weary of hearing his convicting messages. They didn't want to give up their sin of corruption, sexual immorality even among the pagan nations. Problem with the people was they didn't realize this wasn't Isaiah's message but God's, therefore, Israel and Judah ignored the prophetic warnings of God's wrath not just at Israel and Judah, but the pagan nations such as Assyria, Babylon, Moab, Damascus, Cush, Egypt...

In the mix of Isaiah's prophecy gives a message of hope through the sign of Emmanuel in chapter 7.

In the studies of Joshua chapters 1-12 God's army led by Joshua attacks the center, southern and northern kings from their sinful wickedness and idol worship. Joshua didn't just "slap the hands" of these pagan nations but mercilessly destroyed men, women and children.

This wasn't Joshua's will, but a command from God and "His cleansing." Joshua and God's people walked in obedience, worshiped Him only and God would reveal His promises, first, by reflecting why it took so long to cross the Jordan.

cocoa, in these times, how much has changed with Israel? Not just neighboring countries but within that oppose Israel. As far as Israel's sin, we need to understand this includes the world's sin and moral compass that oppose God as well. In the study of Isaiah chapter 24 reveals His intentions for Israel and all the earth in the end times.

What makes us think God's wrath is only limited to the Old and New Testaments? We need to stop limiting God's Might and Sovereignty. He is our Judge then and continues to be our Judge today, and in future times.

God bless you both.

Bob





 
I try and keep this as short as possible.

I often see the quote "I will bless those who bless you and curse those
who curse you "
So here is a bit of context:

1Then the LORD said to Abram, "Leave your country, your kindred, and
your father´s household, and go to the land I will show you. 2I will make
you into a great nation, and I will bless you; I will make your name great,
so that you will be a blessing. 3I will bless those who bless you and curse
those who curse you; and all the families of the earth will be blessed
through you."...

The Lord clearly spoke those words to Abram

We are often told we need to "bless" (to support ) the Zionists or else...
The idea that we need to give something in order to be blessed is the
same idea as the prosperity "gospel"
Jesus tells us in the Beatitudes the meaning of "blessed are..." (Matth
5v3 etc)

Bob
You are quoting Joshua. But those days are gone ! You can't apply those
scriptures either
It absolutely makes no sense.
Try and apply some of Christ's teachings instead

We now see hunger used as a weapon, starving kids.
Starving kids are no threat to anyone's security.

We also know that there are Palestinian Christians.
They are not enemies of God.
They are being betrayed by us.
Just ring up a Pastor in Gaza. He will tell you how they suffer and what
he thinks about us in the West, especially in the US.
For them we turned the Good News into a nightmare

I'm devastated.

May the Lord have mercy on us.
His Judgement will certanly come and it will start with the House of God
 
Sola gratia said:
I try and keep this as short as possible.

I often see the quote "I will bless those who bless you and curse those
who curse you "
So here is a bit of context:

1Then the LORD said to Abram, "Leave your country, your kindred, and
your father´s household, and go to the land I will show you. 2I will make
you into a great nation, and I will bless you; I will make your name great,
so that you will be a blessing. 3I will bless those who bless you and curse
those who curse you; and all the families of the earth will be blessed
through you."...

The Lord clearly spoke those words to Abram

We are often told we need to "bless" (to support ) the Zionists or else...
The idea that we need to give something in order to be blessed is the
same idea as the prosperity "gospel"
Jesus tells us in the Beatitudes the meaning of "blessed are..." (Matth
5v3 etc)

Bob
You are quoting Joshua. But those days are gone ! You can't apply those
scriptures either
It absolutely makes no sense.
Try and apply some of Christ's teachings instead

We now see hunger used as a weapon, starving kids.
Starving kids are no threat to anyone's security.

We also know that there are Palestinian Christians.
They are not enemies of God.
They are being betrayed by us.
Just ring up a Pastor in Gaza. He will tell you how they suffer and what
he thinks about us in the West, especially in the US.
For them we turned the Good News into a nightmare

I'm devastated.
May the Lord have mercy on us.
His Judgement will certanly come and it will start with the House of God
Click to expand...
War is never a pleasant prospect, especially for the innocent victims. However, sometimes the criminal behavior of some nations requires that war be used to break those behaviors. For example, WWII was necessary to stop the cruel aggression of Germany and Japan.

Today, the world is faced with a similar problem--Islamofascism. The totalitarian Islamic rulers treating both their subjects and their external victims with barbarous cruelty in the name of their religion. Two of these quasi-nations are Hezbollah and Hamas. Both of them originate with a Quranic theology espousing the worldwide extermination of Jews, beginning with Israel. These are both proxies of other wealthy Islamic groups determined to destroy the Jewish race. In Hezbollah's case, it is Iran, and in Hamas's case, it is rich Saudi Wahabists, with the Saudi king turning a blind eye.

I think the unprovoked actions of Hamas in October were the straw that broke the camel's back for Israel. They could not let Hamas continue to operate against them with impunity.

I spent 22 years of my life as a soldier both in war and in peace, and I wish that we could have a peaceful world, but as long as evil men are able to have power, war is always a certain possibility.

By portraying the Israeli cruelties Hamas has gained a media ally. However, we're not seeing the cruelties being perpetrated by Hamas such as stealing the food aid that's being provided for the Gaza civilians and the cruelty and murder of innocent hostages.
 
BibleLover said:
By portraying the Israeli cruelties Hamas has gained a media ally. However, we're not seeing the cruelties being perpetrated by Hamas such as stealing the food aid that's being provided for the Gaza civilians and the cruelty and murder of innocent hostages.
Click to expand...
This is 100% true. The suffering in Gaza would end tomorrow if Hamas would surrender today. Truth is, Hamas does not care how many starve. It is a PR bonus for them. The only way to end this is to capture or kill every last Hamas soldier. Unfortunately this war is an excellent recruitment tool. They have tens of thousands of suffering, angry men in Gaza to select from. I fear the war will never end, the world will become so mortified that they turn on Israel, and Israel herself will lose the will to finish the job, and in this manner Hamas will win.
 
LearningToLetGo said:
This is 100% true. The suffering in Gaza would end tomorrow if Hamas would surrender today. Truth is, Hamas does not care how many starve. It is a PR bonus for them. The only way to end this is to capture or kill every last Hamas soldier. Unfortunately this war is an excellent recruitment tool. They have tens of thousands of suffering, angry men in Gaza to select from. I fear the war will never end, the world will become so mortified that they turn on Israel, and Israel herself will lose the will to finish the job, and in this manner Hamas will win.
Click to expand...
That's what Hamas is counting on. That's a common Muslim war tactic. Exploit the enemies aversion to bad press, play the victim, and hide behind human shields. They're far too cowardly to fight like men. I was in the First Gulf War when we forced them to fight like men, and they surrendered in droves.
 
LearningToLetGo said:
It's a no-win situation. Israel either loses militarily (can't defeat Hamas) or politically (allies abandon her).
Click to expand...
Don't count Israel out yet. She still has the strongest ally who has given victory after victory in conventional campaigns--God. They've always been fighting the same enemy, not the satanic Muslims, but Satan himself.
 
BibleLover said:
Don't count Israel out yet. She still has the strongest ally who has given victory after victory in conventional campaigns--God. They've always been fighting the same enemy, not the satanic Muslims, but Satan himself.
Click to expand...
In that case, I pray God opens the eyes of men so they understand Hamas is the true cause of this starvation and death.

I know too many who remain willfully blinded to this simple fact.
 
BibleLover said:
Unfortunately, the fifth column, the media, belongs to and is controlled by the devil, as are most of the political systems controlling the countries of the world.
Click to expand...
I won't go that far, but media are - by and large - self serving and corrupt. I realized this in January of 2009 when they flipped from hating on Bush Jr. to loving on Obama.
 
Sola gratia said:
Bob
You are quoting Joshua. But those days are gone ! You can't apply those scriptures either It absolutely makes no sense. Try and apply some of Christ's teachings instead We now see hunger used as a weapon, starving kids. Starving kids are no threat to anyone's security. We also know that there are Palestinian Christians. They are not enemies of God. They are being betrayed by us. Just ring up a Pastor in Gaza. He will tell you how they suffer and what he thinks about us in the West, especially in the US. For them we turned the Good News into a nightmare I'm devastated. May the Lord have mercy on us. His Judgement will certanly come and it will start with the House of God
Click to expand...

Absolutely, Sola gratia;

It's good to see you again.

None of this makes sense. Loss of respect for human life from today, the Old and New Testaments come in all forms of horrible tactics.

Sola, Old Testament study remains connected to the world situation based on the foundation of the historical, cultural, thought and spiritual that leads to the New Testament and Christ and in the way we apply the Gospel in these times.

It is devastating but let all of us including you and me stand firm with incessant prayer and continued faith in our God. Not just for Israel, but for many nations around the world.

Pastors from Gaza, Palestine, Damascus and Israel hold these important conversations with the Church community right here in my backyard. We all agree nobody wins but it can start with us by standing in accord with the hope in Christ.

God bless you, brother.

Bob
 
BibleLover said:
War is never a pleasant prospect, especially for the innocent victims. However, sometimes the criminal behavior of some nations requires that war be used to break those behaviors. For example, WWII was necessary to stop the cruel aggression of Germany and Japan. Today, the world is faced with a similar problem--Islamofascism. The totalitarian Islamic rulers treating both their subjects and their external victims with barbarous cruelty in the name of their religion. Two of these quasi-nations are Hezbollah and Hamas. Both of them originate with a Quranic theology espousing the worldwide extermination of Jews, beginning with Israel. These are both proxies of other wealthy Islamic groups determined to destroy the Jewish race. In Hezbollah's case, it is Iran, and in Hamas's case, it is rich Saudi Wahabists, with the Saudi king turning a blind eye. I think the unprovoked actions of Hamas in October were the straw that broke the camel's back for Israel. They could not let Hamas continue to operate against them with impunity.
I spent 22 years of my life as a soldier both in war and in peace, and I wish that we could have a peaceful world, but as long as evil men are able to have power, war is always a certain possibility. By portraying the Israeli cruelties Hamas has gained a media ally. However, we're not seeing the cruelties being perpetrated by Hamas such as stealing the food aid that's being provided for the Gaza civilians and the cruelty and murder of innocent hostages.
Click to expand...

Hello BibleLover;

This has been heavy on my heart since last October. The circles of opinions and blame that surround me are emotional and illogical yet mixed with hope, faith and clarity.

I appreciate your clarity, keeping abreast and continued perspective of the Word.

God bless you, John.

Bob
 
I see now that this war is not physical. It's mental. If Hamas can drag this out long enough then the suffering of the Gaza people will bring such a backlash against both Israel and the larger West that they will seem to be victims to Israel's - and the West's -- oppression. Furthermore, Hamas and other terrorists groups will use images of starving Palestinians' as recruiting tools.

Israel and the West are backed into a corner -- win the ground war, lose the war of public sentiment. It's already happening. But if Israel loses the ground war then they lose everything. It's a Pyrrhic victory.
 
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bobinfaith said:
Good morning, Yesua888 and cocoa;

I'm happy to. Two examples in the Old Testament are the studies of Isaiah chapters 1-39. Isaiah brought the message of God's judgment against His people in Judah and Jerusalem for their heinous sins, transgressions and iniquity.

At first, the prophet Isaiah was liked by the people but this wore off. They were weary of hearing his convicting messages. They didn't want to give up their sin of corruption, sexual immorality even among the pagan nations. Problem with the people was they didn't realize this wasn't Isaiah's message but God's, therefore, Israel and Judah ignored the prophetic warnings of God's wrath not just at Israel and Judah, but the pagan nations such as Assyria, Babylon, Moab, Damascus, Cush, Egypt...

In the mix of Isaiah's prophecy gives a message of hope through the sign of Emmanuel in chapter 7.

In the studies of Joshua chapters 1-12 God's army led by Joshua attacks the center, southern and northern kings from their sinful wickedness and idol worship. Joshua didn't just "slap the hands" of these pagan nations but mercilessly destroyed men, women and children.

This wasn't Joshua's will, but a command from God and "His cleansing." Joshua and God's people walked in obedience, worshiped Him only and God would reveal His promises, first, by reflecting why it took so long to cross the Jordan.

cocoa, in these times, how much has changed with Israel? Not just neighboring countries but within that oppose Israel. As far as Israel's sin, we need to understand this includes the world's sin and moral compass that oppose God as well. In the study of Isaiah chapter 24 reveals His intentions for Israel and all the earth in the end times.

What makes us think God's wrath is only limited to the Old and New Testaments? We need to stop limiting God's Might and Sovereignty. He is our Judge then and continues to be our Judge today, and in future times.

God bless you both.
Click to expand...
Evening Bob,

AU is 17 hrs ahead of USA

What does the World know about the True History of the Palestinian People?
Were they Jews?
Are they evil citizens?
This could be quite a study : )
 
Yesua888 said:
Evening Bob,
AU is 17 hrs ahead of USA What does the World know about the True History of the Palestinian People?
Were they Jews? Are they evil citizens? This could be quite a study : )
Click to expand...

Hello Yesua888;

Australia will always be 17 hours ahead of California time. We'll never catch up! lol!

The world does not know the true history of the Palestinian people. Those who have studied world history of Palestine will agree it's very complicated to understand. We're talking of a civilization that goes back 3000+ years and "peoples intertwined", in the mix of Egypt, Canaan, Assyria and later the Ottoman era. So the Palestinians were not solely Jews.

Between Palestine and Israel there isn't a label between good guys / bad guys or good vs evil citizens, as suggested by "armchair quarterbacks" - criticizers or wannabe experts of a sport or world affairs.

My capacity to understand the full history is complex. Fast forward to October 23, 2023, what I do know concerns me deeply. Hamas attacked Israel and this has been my biggest concern and daily prayer and fasting.

We can go back and blame Israel for this and Gaza/Palestine for that but the past does not justify taking a child, woman or man's life, today!

Through the mediation of the United States and Qatar, Israel and Iran have agreed to a ceasefire as of June 24, 2025. It's a positive start, an answer to prayer and my continued hope it will effect any potential ceasefire between Israel and Hamas.

I'm optimistic not in the world but in my faith in God. He sees and knows better than me these happenings. I don't like it, I've argued with God (keeping my heart and mouth in mind and reverence to Him) but still, He is in complete charge and will reveal His Resolve not only to these nations but for all nations on all four corners of the earth.

Personally, Linda, I agree with you. This would make for a constructive study by those who are qualified to teach the history of Israel and Palestine. This would be valuable information for many of us.

God bless you, Yesua888.

Bob


 
Thank you so much Brother Bob, your kind and sensitive answers mare so appreciated : )

I did try to find out more about the History of the people living in Palestine and the answers were somewhat controversial
Then I attempted to find out what countries made up ancient Canaan.

The below came up, and could prove to be quite an indepth study (for another time maybe):

1. Canaan was the name of a large and prosperous ancient country (at times independent, at others a tributary to Egypt) located in the Levant region of present-day Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Israel. It was also known as Phoenicia. The origin of the name 'Canaan' comes from various ancient texts and there is no scholarly consensus on precisely where the name originated nor what it meant. https://www.worldhistory.org/canaan/

2. Canaan, area variously defined in historical and biblical literature, but always centred on Palestine. Its original pre-Israelite inhabitants were called Canaanites. The names Canaan and Canaanite occur in cuneiform, Egyptian, and Phoenician writings from about the 15th century bce as well as in the Old Testament. In these sources, “Canaan” refers sometimes to an area encompassing all of Palestine and Syria, sometimes only to the land west of the Jordan River, and sometimes just to a strip of coastal land from Acre (ʿAkko) northward. The Israelites occupied and conquered Palestine, or Canaan, beginning in the late 2nd millennium bce, or perhaps earlier; and the Bible justifies such occupation by identifying Canaan with the Promised Land, the land promised to the Israelites by God.https://www.britannica.com/place/Canaan-historical-region-Middle-East

I pray that the suffering of innocent civilians and children will cease.

Blesssings to All, Linda
 
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