1 Kings 13

Jan 3, 2015
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I believe scripture is perfect, just the way God would have it, so it is loaded with types.
Here is one I don't believe I have heard or read anything on it.

Jeroboam's Hand Withers
1And, behold, there came a man of God out of Judah by the word of the LORD unto Bethel: and Jeroboam stood by the altar to burn incense. 2And he cried against the altar in the word of the LORD, and said, O altar, altar, thus saith the LORD; Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee. 3And he gave a sign the same day, saying, This is the sign which the LORD hath spoken; Behold, the altar shall be rent, and the ashes that are upon it shall be poured out. 4And it came to pass, when king Jeroboam heard the saying of the man of God, which had cried against the altar in Bethel, that he put forth his hand from the altar, saying, Lay hold on him. And his hand, which he put forth against him, dried up, so that he could not pull it in again to him. 5The altar also was rent, and the ashes poured out from the altar, according to the sign which the man of God had given by the word of the LORD. 6And the king answered and said unto the man of God, Intreat now the face of the LORD thy God, and pray for me, that my hand may be restored me again. And the man of God besought the LORD, and the king's hand was restored him again, and became as it was before. 7And the king said unto the man of God, Come home with me, and refresh thyself, and I will give thee a reward. 8And the man of God said unto the king, If thou wilt give me half thine house, I will not go in with thee, neither will I eat bread nor drink water in this place: 9For so was it charged me by the word of the LORD, saying, Eat no bread, nor drink water, nor turn again by the same way that thou camest. 10So he went another way, and returned not by the way that he came to Bethel.
11Now there dwelt an old prophet in Bethel; and his sons came and told him all the works that the man of God had done that day in Bethel: the words which he had spoken unto the king, them they told also to their father. 12And their father said unto them, What way went he? For his sons had seen what way the man of God went, which came from Judah. 13And he said unto his sons, Saddle me the ass. So they saddled him the ass: and he rode thereon, 14And went after the man of God, and found him sitting under an oak: and he said unto him, Art thou the man of God that camest from Judah? And he said, I am. 15Then he said unto him, Come home with me, and eat bread. 16And he said, I may not return with thee, nor go in with thee: neither will I eat bread nor drink water with thee in this place: 17For it was said to me by the word of the LORD, Thou shalt eat no bread nor drink water there, nor turn again to go by the way that thou camest. 18He said unto him, I am a prophet also as thou art; and an angel spake unto me by the word of the LORD, saying, Bring him back with thee into thine house, that he may eat bread and drink water. But he lied unto him. 19So he went back with him, and did eat bread in his house, and drank water.
20And it came to pass, as they sat at the table, that the word of the LORD came unto the prophet that brought him back: 21And he cried unto the man of God that came from Judah, saying, Thus saith the LORD, Forasmuch as thou hast disobeyed the mouth of the LORD, and hast not kept the commandment which the LORD thy God commanded thee, 22But camest back, and hast eaten bread and drunk water in the place, of the which the LORD did say to thee, Eat no bread, and drink no water; thy carcase shall not come unto the sepulchre of thy fathers. 23And it came to pass, after he had eaten bread, and after he had drunk, that he saddled for him the ass, to wit, for the prophet whom he had brought back. 24And when he was gone, a lion met him by the way, and slew him: and his carcase was cast in the way, and the ass stood by it, the lion also stood by the carcase. 25And, behold, men passed by, and saw the carcase cast in the way, and the lion standing by the carcase: and they came and told it in the city where the old prophet dwelt.
26And when the prophet that brought him back from the way heard thereof, he said, It is the man of God, who was disobedient unto the word of the LORD: therefore the LORD hath delivered him unto the lion, which hath torn him, and slain him, according to the word of the LORD, which he spake unto him. 27And he spake to his sons, saying, Saddle me the ass. And they saddled him. 28And he went and found his carcase cast in the way, and the ass and the lion standing by the carcase: the lion had not eaten the carcase, nor torn the ass. 29And the prophet took up the carcase of the man of God, and laid it upon the ass, and brought it back: and the old prophet came to the city, to mourn and to bury him. 30And he laid his carcase in his own grave; and they mourned over him, saying, Alas, my brother! 31And it came to pass, after he had buried him, that he spake to his sons, saying, When I am dead, then bury me in the sepulchre wherein the man of God is buried; lay my bones beside his bones: 32For the saying which he cried by the word of the LORD against the altar in Bethel, and against all the houses of the high places which are in the cities of Samaria, shall surely come to pass.

The prophet of the LORD being deceived and suffering the consequences.
Please note that it doesn't say anything about the old prophet being a false prophet.

Also, it is not convenient for me to acknowledge comments as they are submitted.
I will log in as time permits. Thank you
 

rtm3039

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Feb 5, 2019
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I believe scripture is perfect, just the way God would have it, so it is loaded with types.
Here is one I don't believe I have heard or read anything on it.

Jeroboam's Hand Withers
1And, behold, there came a man of God out of Judah by the word of the LORD unto Bethel: and Jeroboam stood by the altar to burn incense. 2And he cried against the altar in the word of the LORD, and said, O altar, altar, thus saith the LORD; Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee. 3And he gave a sign the same day, saying, This is the sign which the LORD hath spoken; Behold, the altar shall be rent, and the ashes that are upon it shall be poured out. 4And it came to pass, when king Jeroboam heard the saying of the man of God, which had cried against the altar in Bethel, that he put forth his hand from the altar, saying, Lay hold on him. And his hand, which he put forth against him, dried up, so that he could not pull it in again to him. 5The altar also was rent, and the ashes poured out from the altar, according to the sign which the man of God had given by the word of the LORD. 6And the king answered and said unto the man of God, Intreat now the face of the LORD thy God, and pray for me, that my hand may be restored me again. And the man of God besought the LORD, and the king's hand was restored him again, and became as it was before. 7And the king said unto the man of God, Come home with me, and refresh thyself, and I will give thee a reward. 8And the man of God said unto the king, If thou wilt give me half thine house, I will not go in with thee, neither will I eat bread nor drink water in this place: 9For so was it charged me by the word of the LORD, saying, Eat no bread, nor drink water, nor turn again by the same way that thou camest. 10So he went another way, and returned not by the way that he came to Bethel.
11Now there dwelt an old prophet in Bethel; and his sons came and told him all the works that the man of God had done that day in Bethel: the words which he had spoken unto the king, them they told also to their father. 12And their father said unto them, What way went he? For his sons had seen what way the man of God went, which came from Judah. 13And he said unto his sons, Saddle me the ass. So they saddled him the ass: and he rode thereon, 14And went after the man of God, and found him sitting under an oak: and he said unto him, Art thou the man of God that camest from Judah? And he said, I am. 15Then he said unto him, Come home with me, and eat bread. 16And he said, I may not return with thee, nor go in with thee: neither will I eat bread nor drink water with thee in this place: 17For it was said to me by the word of the LORD, Thou shalt eat no bread nor drink water there, nor turn again to go by the way that thou camest. 18He said unto him, I am a prophet also as thou art; and an angel spake unto me by the word of the LORD, saying, Bring him back with thee into thine house, that he may eat bread and drink water. But he lied unto him. 19So he went back with him, and did eat bread in his house, and drank water.
20And it came to pass, as they sat at the table, that the word of the LORD came unto the prophet that brought him back: 21And he cried unto the man of God that came from Judah, saying, Thus saith the LORD, Forasmuch as thou hast disobeyed the mouth of the LORD, and hast not kept the commandment which the LORD thy God commanded thee, 22But camest back, and hast eaten bread and drunk water in the place, of the which the LORD did say to thee, Eat no bread, and drink no water; thy carcase shall not come unto the sepulchre of thy fathers. 23And it came to pass, after he had eaten bread, and after he had drunk, that he saddled for him the ass, to wit, for the prophet whom he had brought back. 24And when he was gone, a lion met him by the way, and slew him: and his carcase was cast in the way, and the ass stood by it, the lion also stood by the carcase. 25And, behold, men passed by, and saw the carcase cast in the way, and the lion standing by the carcase: and they came and told it in the city where the old prophet dwelt.
26And when the prophet that brought him back from the way heard thereof, he said, It is the man of God, who was disobedient unto the word of the LORD: therefore the LORD hath delivered him unto the lion, which hath torn him, and slain him, according to the word of the LORD, which he spake unto him. 27And he spake to his sons, saying, Saddle me the ass. And they saddled him. 28And he went and found his carcase cast in the way, and the ass and the lion standing by the carcase: the lion had not eaten the carcase, nor torn the ass. 29And the prophet took up the carcase of the man of God, and laid it upon the ass, and brought it back: and the old prophet came to the city, to mourn and to bury him. 30And he laid his carcase in his own grave; and they mourned over him, saying, Alas, my brother! 31And it came to pass, after he had buried him, that he spake to his sons, saying, When I am dead, then bury me in the sepulchre wherein the man of God is buried; lay my bones beside his bones: 32For the saying which he cried by the word of the LORD against the altar in Bethel, and against all the houses of the high places which are in the cities of Samaria, shall surely come to pass.

The prophet of the LORD being deceived and suffering the consequences.
Please note that it doesn't say anything about the old prophet being a false prophet.

Also, it is not convenient for me to acknowledge comments as they are submitted.
I will log in as time permits. Thank you
Hi. I am curious...why did you leave out 33 and 34?

"After this event Jeroboam did not turn from his evil way, but again he made priests from every class of people for the high places; whoever wished, he consecrated him, and he became one of the priests of the high places. And this thing was the sin of the house of Jeroboam, so as to exterminate and destroy it from the face of the earth."
 
Sep 3, 2009
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I believe scripture is perfect, just the way God would have it, so it is loaded with types.
Here is one I don't believe I have heard or read anything on it.

Jeroboam's Hand Withers
1And, behold, there came a man of God out of Judah by the word of the LORD unto Bethel: and Jeroboam stood by the altar to burn incense. 2And he cried against the altar in the word of the LORD, and said, O altar, altar, thus saith the LORD; Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee. 3And he gave a sign the same day, saying, This is the sign which the LORD hath spoken; Behold, the altar shall be rent, and the ashes that are upon it shall be poured out. 4And it came to pass, when king Jeroboam heard the saying of the man of God, which had cried against the altar in Bethel, that he put forth his hand from the altar, saying, Lay hold on him. And his hand, which he put forth against him, dried up, so that he could not pull it in again to him. 5The altar also was rent, and the ashes poured out from the altar, according to the sign which the man of God had given by the word of the LORD. 6And the king answered and said unto the man of God, Intreat now the face of the LORD thy God, and pray for me, that my hand may be restored me again. And the man of God besought the LORD, and the king's hand was restored him again, and became as it was before. 7And the king said unto the man of God, Come home with me, and refresh thyself, and I will give thee a reward. 8And the man of God said unto the king, If thou wilt give me half thine house, I will not go in with thee, neither will I eat bread nor drink water in this place: 9For so was it charged me by the word of the LORD, saying, Eat no bread, nor drink water, nor turn again by the same way that thou camest. 10So he went another way, and returned not by the way that he came to Bethel.
11Now there dwelt an old prophet in Bethel; and his sons came and told him all the works that the man of God had done that day in Bethel: the words which he had spoken unto the king, them they told also to their father. 12And their father said unto them, What way went he? For his sons had seen what way the man of God went, which came from Judah. 13And he said unto his sons, Saddle me the ass. So they saddled him the ass: and he rode thereon, 14And went after the man of God, and found him sitting under an oak: and he said unto him, Art thou the man of God that camest from Judah? And he said, I am. 15Then he said unto him, Come home with me, and eat bread. 16And he said, I may not return with thee, nor go in with thee: neither will I eat bread nor drink water with thee in this place: 17For it was said to me by the word of the LORD, Thou shalt eat no bread nor drink water there, nor turn again to go by the way that thou camest. 18He said unto him, I am a prophet also as thou art; and an angel spake unto me by the word of the LORD, saying, Bring him back with thee into thine house, that he may eat bread and drink water. But he lied unto him. 19So he went back with him, and did eat bread in his house, and drank water.
20And it came to pass, as they sat at the table, that the word of the LORD came unto the prophet that brought him back: 21And he cried unto the man of God that came from Judah, saying, Thus saith the LORD, Forasmuch as thou hast disobeyed the mouth of the LORD, and hast not kept the commandment which the LORD thy God commanded thee, 22But camest back, and hast eaten bread and drunk water in the place, of the which the LORD did say to thee, Eat no bread, and drink no water; thy carcase shall not come unto the sepulchre of thy fathers. 23And it came to pass, after he had eaten bread, and after he had drunk, that he saddled for him the ass, to wit, for the prophet whom he had brought back. 24And when he was gone, a lion met him by the way, and slew him: and his carcase was cast in the way, and the ass stood by it, the lion also stood by the carcase. 25And, behold, men passed by, and saw the carcase cast in the way, and the lion standing by the carcase: and they came and told it in the city where the old prophet dwelt.
26And when the prophet that brought him back from the way heard thereof, he said, It is the man of God, who was disobedient unto the word of the LORD: therefore the LORD hath delivered him unto the lion, which hath torn him, and slain him, according to the word of the LORD, which he spake unto him. 27And he spake to his sons, saying, Saddle me the ass. And they saddled him. 28And he went and found his carcase cast in the way, and the ass and the lion standing by the carcase: the lion had not eaten the carcase, nor torn the ass. 29And the prophet took up the carcase of the man of God, and laid it upon the ass, and brought it back: and the old prophet came to the city, to mourn and to bury him. 30And he laid his carcase in his own grave; and they mourned over him, saying, Alas, my brother! 31And it came to pass, after he had buried him, that he spake to his sons, saying, When I am dead, then bury me in the sepulchre wherein the man of God is buried; lay my bones beside his bones: 32For the saying which he cried by the word of the LORD against the altar in Bethel, and against all the houses of the high places which are in the cities of Samaria, shall surely come to pass.

The prophet of the LORD being deceived and suffering the consequences.
Please note that it doesn't say anything about the old prophet being a false prophet.

Also, it is not convenient for me to acknowledge comments as they are submitted.
I will log in as time permits. Thank you
Well my brother, I am not sure what you are looking for.

To me it is clear that Jeroboam did not raise his hand to offer the incense; but as he stood on the altar, he stretched out his hand towards the man of God as he spoke, and cried out, Lay hold on him! It dried up.

"IT" was Jeroboam’s hand, so suddenly affected that he could not draw it back, was paralyzed, dried up, struck with tetanus.

The CONTEXT is that Jeroboam, came to the throne in the northern kingdom, and was given an opportunity to actually serve God. But his fear was that the tribes in the north would go back to Jerusalem to worship. That had the chance of reuniting the kingdom and HE wanted to keep is separated. So HE set up 2 golden calves for the people to worship, one in Samaria and one in Beth-el.

The man of God prophesied against this alter saying that God would raise up a man would destry them and Josiah was the one to be raised up.

Jeroboam was by the alter when God's man spoke. He was making a sacrifice to one of the calfs. When the man of God was finished, Jeroboam put out his hand against him in effect saying........"Lay hold on him and kill him".

When he did that his hand became paralyzed and withered.

In verse 5-7 Jeroboam begs the man of God to retsore his arm for a reward. He wants to take the prophet home and pay him but verse 8-10 says that the prophet did not compromise.

What is the point you are looking for..............I do not know.

However, IMHO and from where I have sat, I have seen and still see too many Christians who support organizations that are eveil and satanic and they do so to make friends in business so as to make more MONEY!

Christians are to be separated from the world and if we only become Christians on Sunday then we are not Christians at all. Christians CAN NOT read Playboy magazines on Saturday night and worship God on Sunday morning!!!!

Most everyone will say that the king would have changed his ways after his hand was restored. DID HE??????

Verse 33-34 of which my friend Ray asked about...............
"After this thing Jeroboam returned not from his evil way, but made again of the lowest of the people priests of the high places: whosoever would, he consecrated him, and he became one of the priests of the high places. And this thing became sin unto the house of Jeroboam, even to cut it off, and to destroy it from off the face of the earth."

Church members should not abuse their Song of Solomon -called jus patronatus, to place in charge of themselves and congregations teachers “having itching ears” ( 2 Tim. 4:3), or one who will preserve silence concerning every kind of godlessness and misrule. Should they do so they become followers of Jeroboam, and must expect Jeroboam’s punishment. The spiritual office is put to shame if borne by men who make a traffic of religion, and are intent only upon filling their own hands.
 

rtm3039

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Well my brother, I am not sure what you are looking for.

To me it is clear that Jeroboam did not raise his hand to offer the incense; but as he stood on the altar, he stretched out his hand towards the man of God as he spoke, and cried out, Lay hold on him! It dried up.

"IT" was Jeroboam’s hand, so suddenly affected that he could not draw it back, was paralyzed, dried up, struck with tetanus.

The CONTEXT is that Jeroboam, came to the throne in the northern kingdom, and was given an opportunity to actually serve God. But his fear was that the tribes in the north would go back to Jerusalem to worship. That had the chance of reuniting the kingdom and HE wanted to keep is separated. So HE set up 2 golden calves for the people to worship, one in Samaria and one in Beth-el.

The man of God prophesied against this alter saying that God would raise up a man would destry them and Josiah was the one to be raised up.

Jeroboam was by the alter when God's man spoke. He was making a sacrifice to one of the calfs. When the man of God was finished, Jeroboam put out his hand against him in effect saying........"Lay hold on him and kill him".

When he did that his hand became paralyzed and withered.

In verse 5-7 Jeroboam begs the man of God to retsore his arm for a reward. He wants to take the prophet home and pay him but verse 8-10 says that the prophet did not compromise.

What is the point you are looking for..............I do not know.

However, IMHO and from where I have sat, I have seen and still see too many Christians who support organizations that are eveil and satanic and they do so to make friends in business so as to make more MONEY!

Christians are to be separated from the world and if we only become Christians on Sunday then we are not Christians at all. Christians CAN NOT read Playboy magazines on Saturday night and worship God on Sunday morning!!!!

Most everyone will say that the king would have changed his ways after his hand was restored. DID HE??????

Verse 33-34 of which my friend Ray asked about...............
"After this thing Jeroboam returned not from his evil way, but made again of the lowest of the people priests of the high places: whosoever would, he consecrated him, and he became one of the priests of the high places. And this thing became sin unto the house of Jeroboam, even to cut it off, and to destroy it from off the face of the earth."

Church members should not abuse their Song of Solomon -called jus patronatus, to place in charge of themselves and congregations teachers “having itching ears” ( 2 Tim. 4:3), or one who will preserve silence concerning every kind of godlessness and misrule. Should they do so they become followers of Jeroboam, and must expect Jeroboam’s punishment. The spiritual office is put to shame if borne by men who make a traffic of religion, and are intent only upon filling their own hands.
Yes, I had asked because it appears to me that 33 and 34 kind of drive the point home, as far as Jeroboam goes. The teaching point for the unnamed man of God came much earlier. However, nothing said of the unnamed old prophet.
 
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Yes, I had asked because it appears to me that 33 and 34 kind of drive the point home, as far as Jeroboam goes. The teaching point for the unnamed man of God came much earlier. However, nothing said of the unnamed old prophet.
Agreed. Have you ever experienced anyone who was in pain, suffering and or sick and then made a deal with God that if He would just heal him he would do whatever God wanted him to do?????

Doesn't verse #33 and 34 teach us that very thing?
 
Jan 3, 2015
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rtm 3039 and Major



Hello rtm 3039

I left out 30 - 34 because Jeroboam is not central to the question. There is no mystery as to Jeroboam’s condition.

The point is that a call man of God while on his commission seemed justifiably deceived and he paid the price for disobedience. It wasn’t premeditated but came about as the man of God thought he was receiving new instruction from the Lord. In contrast the old prophet who was acting on his own volition and was not commissioned by God seemed to go unpunished.



It seems to me that if God is moving in our lives and we hang on the commission with all our heart in sincerity but we let our thinking interfere we are off the Word and will receive the consequences. The old prophet did not have a commission and was therefore on his own, drifting with the tide.

I don’t see another application other than that.

We have seen this played over and over in history - I believe that for example, Martin Luther was a man of God, but the people that came after him twisted his message to suite their thinking.

I don’t believe God is static and we live in an age where we expect great thing to happen. I don’t believe we can live on yesterday’s manna.

I does me good talking to you.
God bless
 

rtm3039

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rtm 3039 and Major



Hello rtm 3039

I left out 30 - 34 because Jeroboam is not central to the question. There is no mystery as to Jeroboam’s condition.

The point is that a call man of God while on his commission seemed justifiably deceived and he paid the price for disobedience. It wasn’t premeditated but came about as the man of God thought he was receiving new instruction from the Lord. In contrast the old prophet who was acting on his own volition and was not commissioned by God seemed to go unpunished.



It seems to me that if God is moving in our lives and we hang on the commission with all our heart in sincerity but we let our thinking interfere we are off the Word and will receive the consequences. The old prophet did not have a commission and was therefore on his own, drifting with the tide.

I don’t see another application other than that.

We have seen this played over and over in history - I believe that for example, Martin Luther was a man of God, but the people that came after him twisted his message to suite their thinking.

I don’t believe God is static and we live in an age where we expect great thing to happen. I don’t believe we can live on yesterday’s manna.

I does me good talking to you.
God bless
Hi back, 2404:

Ok, I get it. It does appear that the focus of this accounting is on two people so insignificant that they are not named. So, in the absence of names, it is their actions that we focus on.

I too would like to know how it ended for the old prophet, as it appears that his sin was greater than that of the man of God. On the other hand, the man of God was the only one receiving his instructions from the Lord, so his decision to disregard these divine instructions would make his actions the most egregious.

He, the man of God, acted on what we now call “hearsay.” Maybe this is the reason courts will not allow such evidence to be used, except under very unusual circumstances?

“I don’t believe we can live on yesterday’s manna.” Ok, that was funny.

May your day be blessed as well,

rtm3039
 
Sep 3, 2009
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rtm 3039 and Major



Hello rtm 3039

I left out 30 - 34 because Jeroboam is not central to the question. There is no mystery as to Jeroboam’s condition.

The point is that a call man of God while on his commission seemed justifiably deceived and he paid the price for disobedience. It wasn’t premeditated but came about as the man of God thought he was receiving new instruction from the Lord. In contrast the old prophet who was acting on his own volition and was not commissioned by God seemed to go unpunished.



It seems to me that if God is moving in our lives and we hang on the commission with all our heart in sincerity but we let our thinking interfere we are off the Word and will receive the consequences. The old prophet did not have a commission and was therefore on his own, drifting with the tide.

I don’t see another application other than that.

We have seen this played over and over in history - I believe that for example, Martin Luther was a man of God, but the people that came after him twisted his message to suite their thinking.

I don’t believe God is static and we live in an age where we expect great thing to happen. I don’t believe we can live on yesterday’s manna.

I does me good talking to you.
God bless
Just as a matter of conversation, wasn't Jeroboam actually the reason for the action taken by the man of God? Just asking????

With all the happened, Jeroboam was not deterred in his actions. Those actions was the central theme of the passage IMO.

He ignored the warnings and signs and went right on in his religious course that he had set for Israel in 12:28-33. Therefore, because of his persistence in sin, his house was judged and doomed for destruction and did not become a dynasty.

Actually, Jereboam was a pagan and in his theology it was silly for him to think that he could deceive the God who knows yesterday and today.

It seems to me that verses 23-28 tell us that one may be tempted to feel sorrow for the "old man" who was judged by God after being deceived by a prophet of God, however the man of God clearly understood God's initial prohibition and should have known also that God never contradicts His own Word.
 

rtm3039

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Just as a matter of conversation, wasn't Jeroboam actually the reason for the action taken by the man of God? Just asking????

With all the happened, Jeroboam was not deterred in his actions. Those actions was the central theme of the passage IMO.

He ignored the warnings and signs and went right on in his religious course that he had set for Israel in 12:28-33. Therefore, because of his persistence in sin, his house was judged and doomed for destruction and did not become a dynasty.

Actually, Jereboam was a pagan and in his theology it was silly for him to think that he could deceive the God who knows yesterday and today.

It seems to me that verses 23-28 tell us that one may be tempted to feel sorrow for the "old man" who was judged by God after being deceived by a prophet of God, however the man of God clearly understood God's initial prohibition and should have known also that God never contradicts His own Word.
God does not contradict Himself; however, He has been known to change his mind "And the LORD changed his mind about the disaster that he planned to bring on his people" (Exodus 32: 14).

Sometimes, people do appear to get away with certain actions; however, get it later on. Take for example, Aaron. Not only was he the person that built the golden calf, he provided one seriously lame explanation "So I told them, ‘Whoever has any gold jewelry, take it off.’ Then they gave me the gold, and I threw it into the fire, and out came this calf!” (Exodus 32: 24). Many people died as a result of this, but Aaron was not one of them. He di; however, get it at the end.

rtm3039
 
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God does not contradict Himself; however, He has been known to change his mind "And the LORD changed his mind about the disaster that he planned to bring on his people" (Exodus 32: 14).

Sometimes, people do appear to get away with certain actions; however, get it later on. Take for example, Aaron. Not only was he the person that built the golden calf, he provided one seriously lame explanation "So I told them, ‘Whoever has any gold jewelry, take it off.’ Then they gave me the gold, and I threw it into the fire, and out came this calf!” (Exodus 32: 24). Many people died as a result of this, but Aaron was not one of them. He di; however, get it at the end.

rtm3039
Lets consider this for a moment Ray.

The CONTEXT of this example is that while Moses was upon the mountain receiving the Law from God, the people were at the foot of the mountain worshiping the golden calf which they had constructed (32:4-6).

When God instructed Moses to go down to them, He told Moses that He would “consume them” and make a great nation from Moses in 32:10.

When Moses heard this, he pleaded with God to turn from His anger. Verse and verse 14 states...…….
“So the Lord relented from the harm which He said He would do to His people.”

There is an implication that this means that God changed His mind.

However, in 1 Samuel 15:29 God says that...….
“He is not a man, that He should relent,”

Then in Malachi 3:6 God says...……………………...
“For I am the Lord, I do not change.”

Then in in Hebrews 6:17 God demonstrated the “immutability of His counsel” by swearing an oath.

So then, does God change His mind or doesn’t He? What do we do with this Scriptures that seem to conflict???

First of all, I have to say that that God does not change. He neither changes His mind, His will, nor His nature.

This is kind of deep theology but it is necessary to show you what I am saying. So then...…......
anything that changes does so in some chronological order. There must be a point before the change and a point after the change. IS THAT CORRECT????

So then, because that is in fact correct, we need to understand that God is eternal and outside time. Therefore, there cannot be in God a series of before’s and after’s. But, if God cannot be in a series of before’s and after’s, then God cannot change, because change necessarily involves before and after.

Second, anything that changes must change for better or for worse, for a change that makes no difference is not a change at all. IS THAT CORRECT???
Yes it is.

Because God is perfect He does not need anything, therefore He cannot change for the better, and if God were to lose something He would not be perfect, therefore He cannot change for the worse. Therefore, God cannot change.

Third, if anyone were to change his mind, it must be because new information has come to light that was not previously known, or the circumstances have changed that require a different kind of attitude or action.

It may simply be the case that, since the circumstances have changed, God’s relationship to the new circumstances are different because they have changed, not God.

So then, having understood this problem we can approach the question of....."Did God change His mind".

The fact was that When Israel was at the foot of the mountain they engaged in idol worship, God told Moses that His anger was burning against them and He was prepared to destroy them in judgment. However, when Moses interceded for them...…….
********* the circumstances were changed. God’s attitude toward sin is always anger, and His attitude toward those who call to Him is always an attitude of mercy. Before Moses prayed for Israel, they were under God’s judgment. By Moses’ intercession for the people of Israel, he brought them under God’s mercy. God did not change. Rather, the circumstances changed.***********

https://defendinginerrancy.com/bible-solutions/Exodus_32.14.php

The prayer of Moses brought the nation under the mercy of God’s grace, and out from under the judgment of God.

Again I say that God does not change, neither His mind, His will, nor His nature and that is a great blessing to all of us!!!!!!!!
 

rtm3039

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Lets consider this for a moment Ray.

The CONTEXT of this example is that while Moses was upon the mountain receiving the Law from God, the people were at the foot of the mountain worshiping the golden calf which they had constructed (32:4-6).

When God instructed Moses to go down to them, He told Moses that He would “consume them” and make a great nation from Moses in 32:10.

When Moses heard this, he pleaded with God to turn from His anger. Verse and verse 14 states...…….
“So the Lord relented from the harm which He said He would do to His people.”

There is an implication that this means that God changed His mind.

However, in 1 Samuel 15:29 God says that...….
“He is not a man, that He should relent,”

Then in Malachi 3:6 God says...……………………...
“For I am the Lord, I do not change.”

Then in in Hebrews 6:17 God demonstrated the “immutability of His counsel” by swearing an oath.

So then, does God change His mind or doesn’t He? What do we do with this Scriptures that seem to conflict???

First of all, I have to say that that God does not change. He neither changes His mind, His will, nor His nature.

This is kind of deep theology but it is necessary to show you what I am saying. So then...…......
anything that changes does so in some chronological order. There must be a point before the change and a point after the change. IS THAT CORRECT????

So then, because that is in fact correct, we need to understand that God is eternal and outside time. Therefore, there cannot be in God a series of before’s and after’s. But, if God cannot be in a series of before’s and after’s, then God cannot change, because change necessarily involves before and after.

Second, anything that changes must change for better or for worse, for a change that makes no difference is not a change at all. IS THAT CORRECT???
Yes it is.

Because God is perfect He does not need anything, therefore He cannot change for the better, and if God were to lose something He would not be perfect, therefore He cannot change for the worse. Therefore, God cannot change.

Third, if anyone were to change his mind, it must be because new information has come to light that was not previously known, or the circumstances have changed that require a different kind of attitude or action.

It may simply be the case that, since the circumstances have changed, God’s relationship to the new circumstances are different because they have changed, not God.

So then, having understood this problem we can approach the question of....."Did God change His mind".

The fact was that When Israel was at the foot of the mountain they engaged in idol worship, God told Moses that His anger was burning against them and He was prepared to destroy them in judgment. However, when Moses interceded for them...…….
********* the circumstances were changed. God’s attitude toward sin is always anger, and His attitude toward those who call to Him is always an attitude of mercy. Before Moses prayed for Israel, they were under God’s judgment. By Moses’ intercession for the people of Israel, he brought them under God’s mercy. God did not change. Rather, the circumstances changed.***********

https://defendinginerrancy.com/bible-solutions/Exodus_32.14.php

The prayer of Moses brought the nation under the mercy of God’s grace, and out from under the judgment of God.

Again I say that God does not change, neither His mind, His will, nor His nature and that is a great blessing to all of us!!!!!!!!
Hm. Ok, I can see the logic behind that. How about Genesis 18:20-33? It appears to me that nothing really changed and that Abraham was able to convince God to lower his numbers. Or Genesis 6:6: "And the Lord was sorry that he had made humankind on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart." (NRSV)?

rtm3039
 
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Hm. Ok, I can see the logic behind that. How about Genesis 18:20-33? It appears to me that nothing really changed and that Abraham was able to convince God to lower his numbers. Or Genesis 6:6: "And the Lord was sorry that he had made humankind on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart." (NRSV)?

rtm3039
Good question however the answer is still the same.

Let me ask you a question. Is God omniscient? In other words, does God know all things from the beginning to the end. The Bible says that He does in more places than I can remember.

But in Genesis 3:9, after Adam and Eve sinned in the garden and hid themselves, God said, “Adam, where are you?”

Should we conclude that God who knows everything didn’t know where Adam was?
Of course not. He was asking not just about Adam’s location but also about his spiritual condition.

Consider for a moment that the fact is that God knows all things as stated in 1 John 3:20----- and He has known it all forever.

That would then mean that God would actually change His mind would imply that God, who is supposed to have known all things forever, decided to act in a manner that was different from what He has always known He would do. He would have known that He was going to change His mind, which means He isn’t changing His mind because He knew He was going to do it. So, how is He really changing His mind if He decided to do something all along that only appears (to us) that He changed His mind? NO!

The thought that God could change His mind goes away when we do diligent study to realize who God is.

Consider Malachi 3:6...…...
"I the LORD do not change."

Also Numbers 23:19......….
"God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind."

God doesn't change because He doesn't need to. When to the Bible says that God "changes His mind," it is simply communicating in limited human terms God's actions in a manner we can comprehend.
 

rtm3039

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Good question however the answer is still the same.

Let me ask you a question. Is God omniscient? In other words, does God know all things from the beginning to the end. The Bible says that He does in more places than I can remember.

But in Genesis 3:9, after Adam and Eve sinned in the garden and hid themselves, God said, “Adam, where are you?”

Should we conclude that God who knows everything didn’t know where Adam was?
Of course not. He was asking not just about Adam’s location but also about his spiritual condition.

Consider for a moment that the fact is that God knows all things as stated in 1 John 3:20----- and He has known it all forever.

That would then mean that God would actually change His mind would imply that God, who is supposed to have known all things forever, decided to act in a manner that was different from what He has always known He would do. He would have known that He was going to change His mind, which means He isn’t changing His mind because He knew He was going to do it. So, how is He really changing His mind if He decided to do something all along that only appears (to us) that He changed His mind? NO!

The thought that God could change His mind goes away when we do diligent study to realize who God is.

Consider Malachi 3:6...…...
"I the LORD do not change."

Also Numbers 23:19......….
"God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind."

God doesn't change because He doesn't need to. When to the Bible says that God "changes His mind," it is simply communicating in limited human terms God's actions in a manner we can comprehend.
Wow, lots to digest here. Headed to bible study in a bit, so I am putting a pin on this. I need to read this a couple of times and them reply. This is both enjoyable and enlightening. Thanks Brother M.
 
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Wow, lots to digest here. Headed to bible study in a bit, so I am putting a pin on this. I need to read this a couple of times and them reply. This is both enjoyable and enlightening. Thanks Brother M.
I am your daisy.

This might be one of those "talking points" that come up in a Bible study.

Remember something very, very important Ray. If you happen to bring this topic up in a conversation or Bible study remember this.....
At one time we were all enemies of God due to our sin and were on our way to hell.

Romans 8:7...……..
"For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God."

So then what did God do???? He warned us of the wages of sin in order to cause us to repent.

Romans 6:23 …….
"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

When we repented and trusted Christ for salvation, God “changed His mind” about us, and now we are no longer enemies but His beloved children.
John 1:12...………..
"But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,"

Now then, that being said and proven by the Word of God----- it would be contrary to God’s character to not punish us had we continued in sin, so it would be contrary to His character to punish us after we repent. Does our change of heart mean that God changes? No, NO AND again NO!

The facts and Biblical truth is that our salvation points to the fact that God does not change, because had He not saved us for the sake of Christ, He would have acted contrary to His character and would have been a LIAR. If that was the case then YOU and ME would still be in our sin with no....NO CHANCE whatsoever of being saved.

Ding- Ding- Ding...…We have a Winner!
 
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rtm3039

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This might be one of those "talking points" that come up in a Bible study.

Remember something very, very important Ray. If you happen to bring this topic up in a conversation or Bible study remember this.....
At one time we were all enemies of God due to our sin and were on our way to hell.

Romans 8:7...……..
"For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God."

So then what did God do???? He warned us of the wages of sin in order to cause us to repent.

Romans 6:23 …….
"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

When we repented and trusted Christ for salvation, God “changed His mind” about us, and now we are no longer enemies but His beloved children.
John 1:12...………..
"But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,"

Now then, that being said and proven by the Word of God----- it would be contrary to God’s character to not punish us had we continued in sin, so it would be contrary to His character to punish us after we repent. Does our change of heart mean that God changes? No, NO AND again NO!

The facts and Biblical truth is that our salvation points to the fact that God does not change, because had He not saved us for the sake of Christ, He would have acted contrary to His character and would have been a LIAR. If that was the case then YOU and ME would still be in our sin with no....NO CHANCE whatsoever of being saved.

Ding- Ding- Ding...…We have a Winner!
Ok, still working on a response, daisy boy. It will have something involving free will, but I still need to read and ask for more wisdom than I current possess. It's coming..... However, in this example, I must agree that it is us who change and not Him.
 
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Ok, still working on a response, daisy boy. It will have something involving free will, but I still need to read and ask for more wisdom than I current possess. It's coming..... However, in this example, I must agree that it is us who change and not Him.
Take your time brother and do dew diligence. I got no where to go and no time to be there.

Ooops……..wife just told me I have to go and take a shower!
 
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Hello Major
Enjoyed your thoughts.
I agree that God being eternal can never have a new thought and therefore never change His mind.
I believe these things are for our benefit, admonishing us to ask, possibly for the purpose of building (realizing) our position.

In regards to Jeroboam, the eternal God allowed the circumstances to maybe provide us with more insight/instruction - consequences suffered by the prophet.
As you said He can't contradict His own Word.

If I recall 'predestination' is taboo on this forum but I prefer the word 'foreknowledge' anyhow.
The Word is then only for those who can receive it, do you agree?
And if we can receive it, it is the life and has new meaning for us - not just a narrative.

I appreciate reading your material but as rtm 3039 said 'a lot of ground is being covered' so please excuse my rambling...
 
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Hello Major
Enjoyed your thoughts.
I agree that God being eternal can never have a new thought and therefore never change His mind.
I believe these things are for our benefit, admonishing us to ask, possibly for the purpose of building (realizing) our position.

In regards to Jeroboam, the eternal God allowed the circumstances to maybe provide us with more insight/instruction - consequences suffered by the prophet.
As you said He can't contradict His own Word.

If I recall 'predestination' is taboo on this forum but I prefer the word 'foreknowledge' anyhow.
The Word is then only for those who can receive it, do you agree?
And if we can receive it, it is the life and has new meaning for us - not just a narrative.

I appreciate reading your material but as rtm 3039 said 'a lot of ground is being covered' so please excuse my rambling...
You are correct IMO, in that "Predestination" is a taboo subject that can not be discussed. That is NOT because we can not understand or know it but that it always ends in confrontational conflict.

You are also correct IMO, in that only born again, spiritually discerned believers can receive the Word of God.

1 Corth. 2:14.........…..
"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."

You are also correct IMO, when you stated......
"And if we can receive it, it is the life and has new meaning for us - not just a narrative."

That means God is actually speaking to us through HIs written Word and life and truth is found in that Written Word.

Not to worry my brother about rambling, and thank you for the compliment. But remember.....I am just an old country boy from the great Promised Land.
 
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rtm3039

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You are correct IMO, in that "Predestination" is a taboo subject that can not be discussed. That is NOT because we can not understand or know it but that it always ends in confrontational conflict.

You are also correct IMO, in that only born again, spiritually discerned believers can receive the Word of God.

1 Corth. 2:14.........…..
"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."

You are also correct IMO, when you stated......
"And if we can receive it, it is the life and has new meaning for us - not just a narrative."

That means God is actually speaking to us through HIs written Word and life and truth is found in that Written Word.

Not to worry my brother about rambling, and thank you for the compliment. But remember.....I am just an old country boy from the great Promised Land.
"confrontatinal conflict," is that like spontaneously spontaneous? 😂