1948
- Thread starter crossnote
- Start date
Can't there be just one Jewish State, while there are 22 Arab states? (The Palestinians, for the most part are Arabs).
The League of Arab States (LAS) has 22 member states that are considered Arab countries:
Algeria, Bahrain, Comoros, Djibouti, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Mauritania, Morocco, Oman, Palestine, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates, and Yemen.
It's funny, ( or sad), their Arab brothers refuse to to take in their Palestinian brothers, but instead want to force Israel into a 2 State solution.
Crossnote what does a one state of Israel look like? Minus the Palestinians and a proposed Israel the size of Old Testament biblical proportions which would further demand the loss of Arab lands and not just the Palestinians land. At least according to Zionists and Zionist Christian’s
What be your proposal considering that the majority Jews not be Jews at all . 80 percent Jews be Ashkenazi Jews. DNA classifies and confirms them as from European and Turko stock and not from Jewish linage . In other words proselytes. The Palestinians might have a better case considering that they have lived there for almost 2000 yrs . Ishmael does come to mind. 
God will determine the boundaries, just as He will determine who are His people, Ashkenazi or Sephardic, they will be known by Him, when He sets up His Kingdom reigning from JERUSALEM.
Besides:...
Total area of Israel 8,019 square miles.
Total area of Arab states 5.07 million square miles. So Israel is 0.16% of the Arab states. In other words Arab states combined are 630 times bigger than Israel.
Yet the Arabs will continue to chant, "From the River to the Sea."
So the tables will be turned
Ishmael? Scripture gives an accurate yet prophetic description:
Genesis 16:12 NKJV
He shall be a wild man; His hand shall be against every man, And every man's hand against him. And he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren."
Yet Ishmael is not outside the scope of God’s redemptive love found in Christ Jesus.
My wife and I were just talking about this in our one on one Bible study last week. Israel, being such a small geographical country had so many names of states, subdistricts, regions and pronounced countries within a country. It's overwhelming!
Part of our theory is part inherited lands that were originally from the 12 tribes.
Prim90, Ishmael was not given land by God in Israel, but east of the Jordan on the outside called Moab and Ammon. We can start there.
Dave F., the two state solution also had it's problems with the development of new names and demands of peoples, sort of a "grab and historical claim."
Crossnote Ishmael certainly was never out of the bounds of Gods redemptive love . For God did bless him also and not only Isaac to be a father to many future nations of which did come to pass. Many of those Arab nations were once Christian be that from Roman or Byzantine influence. It wasn’t until mid 7th or 8th when a major anti trinitarian uprising occurred within the Christian empire that a religion like Islam came into being. They created their own book much plagiarised. they also created their own man Muhammad. The problem being that all source material and evidence for Islam is 2-300 yrs too late of when Muhammad supposedly died in 632 AD. Is Judaism any better in its theological thought in denying the trinity of which they once believed. That all changed with the death & resurrection of Jesus Christ. They chose to deny their scriptures rather than accept Jesus Christ as their Messiah and do so until this very day. Both religions deny the trinity. Both religions be as evil as each other. How can God choose or favour one over two Christ rejecting religions ?
The Muslims do indeed continue to chant ( from the river to the sea ) I’m sure the Israelis have their own chants too. But was does the Holy Church traditionally proclaim upon all such heretics. We favour none. Our motto of judgment has always be from earliest times. Sheep to the right and Goats to the left be they Jews Muslims or be it any other pretender that challenges the Divinity of Christ . Crossnote the Holy Church does look down upon you now in be wonderment. God nor his Holy Church does share his glory with another. Crossnote How can you seek out and favour a Christ rejecting people that have the gall to build a third physical temple and claim geographical promises that have already been fulfilled from ancient times . Do you not realise the third temple is already here and that the kingdom of God has already arrived. Jesus Christ and the church are the temple the spiritual temple we not need another future temple made from human hands. The only future physical temple to come upon this earth shall be the Antichrist temple. Do you not understand scripture when Jesus Christ states that he and the church are now the temple of God . John 2:18-22. ( 18 Then answered the Jews and said to him, what sign you show to us, seeing that you do these things 19 Destroy this temple and in 3 days will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews. Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in 3 days ? 21 but he spake of his body. 22 when therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this to them: and they believed the scripture . And the word that Jesus had said. ) Crossnote for further confirmation that Christ and the church are the temple of God it is written in Ephesians 2:19-22 
Yes God did determine the boundaries long ago. They have served their purpose. We now seek out the spiritual Israel not the physical one . Jew and gentile alike are now the Israel of God. May we continue to pray and search for discernment in all things. Prim
Last edited:
Bob very true but kingdoms and nations do expand and decrease over time. Some even cease to exist.
Good morning, sister;
I realize this but there are reasons for expansion and reduction in land size but Israel has such a history of expansion.
Is it for God's glory, purpose and plan, or man's selfish oppression and gain?
Please elaborate your thoughts on this.
God bless you, Prim90?
never hinted he was
Only thing, the promise of the world's Redeemer came through Abraham-->Isaac-->Jacob, not Ishmael
More like 600 years from the eyewitness accounts of Matthew, Mark, John etc.
God has shut up ALL under sin (Jew and Gentile) and need to be born again. We are all evil apart from the grace found in Jesus Christ. Religion only compounds that evil.
He doesn't except for His previous promises to the Fathers...
(Rom 11:26) And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "THE DELIVERER WILL COME OUT OF ZION, AND HE WILL TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB;
(Rom 11:27) FOR THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."
(Rom 11:28) Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
(Rom 11:29) For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
I only do so because God of our Scriptures says so. (Rom 11:28 above)
Sorry, I see the third Temple as the temple of the antiChrist. This one...
(2Th 2:4) who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Already been fulfilled? Sorry, I'm not a preterist, hence this poem.
What temple would you say Paul is speaking of in 2Th 2:4? I never said we needed a 3rd Temple.
Is that what this really is all about? You do understand the various end time views respectable bible scholars hold? I happen not to hold to a Preterist or Amillennial end time view.I tend to take the Scriptures more literally and thus see a physical future for Israel.
(Jer 31:35) Thus says the LORD, Who gives the sun for a light by day, The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night, Who disturbs the sea, And its waves roar (The LORD of hosts is His name):
(Jer 31:36) "If those ordinances depart From before Me, says the LORD, Then the seed of Israel shall also cease From being a nation before Me forever."
(Jer 31:37) Thus says the LORD: "If heaven above can be measured, And the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel For all that they have done, says the LORD.
Amen.
Last edited:
Bob from memory I think in the reign in the reign of Solomon God did fulfil all the territorial claims of Israel which included parts of Egypt and Syria. But those promises were always conditional. I fail to see how a Christ rejecting people could lay claim to such ancient geographical promises from 1948 to the present. There be no easy solution to the Israel Middle East conflict. There be no joy in seeing little children Ives destroyed on either side. What to do. The reality is that Islam is hell bent in destroying Israel when the opportunity arises. And secretly Israel is always planning and plotting to expand its territories minus the arabs..The hatred between both be too deep. It be only something God can only heal or perhaps it be a satanic end times delusion to bring about a counterfeit one world religion upon the world.
Do you have a source for this accusation or is it too secret?
1 Crossnote you say you never hinted at Ishmael being beyond Gods redemptive love. Yet you were quite happy to expound scripture showing Ishmael as only a wild man. It’s what you do failed to mention that was more telling. You failed to mention that Ishmael was also blessed by God as was Isaac also blessed. Different blessing but Ismael was still blessed of God nevertheless. He wasn’t just a wild man : )
2 you mention the worlds redeemer coming though Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and not Ishmael and so they did. And what of the promise of the coming redeemer prophesied to mother Eve and what of Rahab the Canaanite whore all who be included in the linage of Jesus . Crossnote it was never entirely a Jewish affair . 
3 Crossnote you mention the Christian writings of Matthew Mark, Luke and John being some 600 years earlier that is true. What I was alluding to with Muhammad is that there is no eye witness testimony of him or a faithful translation of the Koran until some 200-250 yrs after the event. Our New Testament has no problem with eyewitness testimony. But the Muslims only look to their Koran and prophet as infallible. 4 Crossnote. You mention Romans 11: 26-29. Many commentary’s have been written on the subject. But as to all of Israel being saved? we know the many judgments that the God has bestowed upon Israel that it cannot be solely about physical Israel being entirely saved . For many were never saved more so with the destruction inflicted upon them in 70 AD and many judgments before. It is more likely referring to the spiritual Israel when Paul is quoting that all Israel shall be saved. A sheep that belongs God has never ever been lost be they from Jewish or gentile stock if they belong to God
5 Crossnote you mention 2nd Thessalonians 2:4 and of what temple does it refer . Perhaps a little context is required I quote from verse 1-4. 
The letter be directed to the Church even if the Jewish temple was still present at the time. Christ is the head of the church Christ and the church are the temple of God. It speaks of the son of perdition and a great falling away amongst Christendom due to his deception. He will claim the Divinity and the attributes of God and claim to be God himself. Whether he uses a future counterfeit Zionist temple or the Vatican as a contending counterfeit temple in place of the true temple of God or both might well be the case. Crossnote how would you view the temple in this passage. I look on it as a attempt to try overthrow and usurp the true temple of God
Last edited:
Okay, I think this poem has been twisted beyond its recognition.
The central point is the line 'eight-eights (written in 2012) of years and tears have been their welcome'. It still is.. as highlighted by the gruesome Oct 7, 2023 attack. The point is, antisemitism is a real menace to the whole world, (and has been for hundreds of years) even without all the moral equivalency that goes with it under the guise of 'being fair' to both sides.
Good morning, crossnote;
It's amazing how a tiny country can have so many unanswered change of events in it's history, beliefs, states, subdistricts, regions, and pronounced countries within a country.
Much larger countries don't have a history so complex. For example, Jesus' birth in Bethlehem, raised in Nazareth (Palestine) and His missionary headquarters was Cana. History argues both ways that Jesus should or should not be viewed as a Palestinian only makes 1948 more interrelated and confusing. How so? That's my point.
I have a question. After viewing the map and the statement, "One hundred thousand returned Aliyah Nine beasts fought her rebirth For a land a hope a home Eight eights of years and tears have been their welcome."
What is the message or verse that we are to arrive at in this thread? Either way, it has to be a positive outcome.
God bless you, brother.
I had stated this passage at the end of post #11..
(Jer 31:35) Thus says the LORD, Who gives the sun for a light by day, The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night, Who disturbs the sea, And its waves roar (The LORD of hosts is His name):
(Jer 31:36) "If those ordinances depart From before Me, says the LORD, Then the seed of Israel shall also cease From being a nation before Me forever."
(Jer 31:37) Thus says the LORD: "If heaven above can be measured, And the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel For all that they have done, says the LORD.
Also if the unconditional promises don't hold for Israel, how can we be sure they will hold for us Christians?
Hello crossnote;
Amen. I have to scoot for now but will be back later today.
"Also if the unconditional promises don't hold for Israel, how can we be sure they will hold for us Christians?"
God bless you, and thank you.
Crossnote what is this? you write me something about twisting a poem from 2012 of which my reply said nothing about. You than drag antisemitism into the equation ?
Staff Comment: There seems to be a slight misunderstanding in this thread. If participants can PM each other to iron out the misunderstandings, that would be best. Otherwise, this thread may end up locked.
Thank you for your cooperation.
`
Thank you for your cooperation.
`