4 Biblical Truths

[BibleLover]

That is a fact.

I can not even begin to tell you how much time I have in the past committed on the topic of "tongues".

Now, so that we are all clear, Dr. Luke wrote the book of Acts. The important point to note here is that Luke is/was very careful in the use of his terms/words when describing what went on at Pentecost.

That being the factual and historical and Biblical fact, we can read the Word of God and understand that He clearly says that people understood what was said; and more specifically, says that they understood in their own local "dialect".
This leaves no room to doubt that what was being said was understood by the hearers.

Now, to what extent the miracle of Pentecost was a miracle of the speakers of the hearers is another matter.

However, for the moment and for our discussion that does not matter. The fact remains that people heard the apostles in their own languages and even their own dialects. Thus, "other tongues/languages" were known human languages in Acts 2.

There is one question brought to bear at the conversion of the Cornelius. He and his family began speaking in tongues before they were even baptized. Since all persons present at the scene spoke a common language, what was the nature of the tongues being spoken there? To whom were they speaking if they were speaking a foreign human language?

 

[Major]

There is one question brought to bear at the conversion of the Cornelius. He and his family began speaking in tongues before they were even baptized. Since all persons present at the scene spoke a common language, what was the nature of the tongues being spoken there? To whom were they speaking if they were speaking a foreign human language?

That is recorded in Acts 10:46. Cornelius was a gentile Centurian who worshiped the Jewish God.
Acts 11:12 tells us that Peter and six Jewish Jesus-followers from Joppa at the home of the Roman centurion Cornelius.

IMHO here, "tongues" is not an unknown language between a Jesus-follower and God. It is a real language, spoken by real people, but unknown naturally to the speaker.

Also, I think it should be understood that speaking in tongues is not a universal sign of faith in Christ. That false teaching has lead to a lot of problems in the church today and No one should doubt their salvation because they don't speak in tongues.

It is my understanding of this Scripture is that it is a specific situation in which the Holy Spirit needed to prove a point: ........
Gentiles who are not circumcised or baptized, who have not had an apostle lay his hands on them, can receive the Holy Spirit because Salvation is by grace through faith and nothing we do.

 

[YeshuaFan]

That is recorded in Acts 10:46. Cornelius was a gentile Centurian who worshiped the Jewish God.
Acts 11:12 tells us that Peter and six Jewish Jesus-followers from Joppa at the home of the Roman centurion Cornelius.

IMHO here, "tongues" is not an unknown language between a Jesus-follower and God. It is a real language, spoken by real people, but unknown naturally to the speaker.

Also, I think it should be understood that speaking in tongues is not a universal sign of faith in Christ. That false teaching has lead to a lot of problems in the church today and No one should doubt their salvation because they don't speak in tongues.

It is my understanding of this Scripture is that it is a specific situation in which the Holy Spirit needed to prove a point: ........
Gentiles who are not circumcised or baptized, who have not had an apostle lay his hands on them, can receive the Holy Spirit because Salvation is by grace through faith and nothing we do.

Context of the passage confirms your view, and the Jews when they heard those languages marveled that the Gentiles spoke just same fashion Jews assembled did at Pentacost when the Holy Spirit came upon them

 

[YeshuaFan]

Well, it is unfortunate that we can not discuss this topic, but I can tell you what I know and then the mods can end the thread.

Everyone should be aware that when we read Acts 2:1-12 we will find that the tongues spoken by the apostles were languages spoken by apostles who did not know these languages, but which were understood by the Jews in Jerusalem. They spoke in the languages of Parthians, Medes, Elamites, Egyptians, Libyans and more.

We should also know that it was Jews speaking to Jews about one thing.....The gospel.

What was spoken were actual human languages, known to the hearers, but not known to the ones speaking. This explains why those present understood these tongues to in fact be miraculous.

That is not what takes place in churches today.

The fact, though, is that, as far as I know, no one who claims to speak in tongues today also claims to speak in an actual language. They are speaking gibberish and NO ONE translates what is uttered.

They may be experiencing a cathartic emotional release upon speaking in “tongues,” and that may give people a feeling of religious fervor, but they are not doing what was done by the apostles and those they placed their hands on in the first century.

When I was active in the SBC of Florida in the capacity of Cults we actually made recordings and analyzed them and the fact is that
here is nothing be said. They are just "utterances".

Now, I do know of ONE example of speaking in tongues. In 1965, while in a bus terminal, a man was standing and speaking something but no one knew what he was saying. Finally another man walked up and said, "I know what he is saying".

I asked how and what was going on and the man said HE IS SPEAKING in Portuguese and saying that only Jesus saves.

Now as to a "private prayer language".........#1, that phrase or words are not found in the Bible.

why is it wrong.............
#1. praying in tongues is a personal prayer language would be to edift himself and that is unbiblical,(1 Corinthians 14:4).
#2. How could praying in tongues be a private prayer language if it is to be interpreted (1 Corinthians 14:13-17)?
#3. How could praying in tongues be for self-edification when Scripture says that the spiritual gifts are for the edification of the church? #4. How can praying in tongues be a private prayer language if the gift of tongues is a “sign to unbelievers” (1 Corth. 14:22)
#5. The Bible makes it abundantly clear that not everyone possesses the gift of tongues (1 Corinthians 12:11, 28-39).
#6. Then of course, How could tongues be a gift for self-edification if not every believer can possess it?

I do not think gift on tongues nor apostle sign gifts are for today, but will allow a fellow Christian to see the tongues as for today IF they agree to abide by scripture practice and use of them, but not to get second act of Grace nor super saint status

 

[BibleLover]

That is recorded in Acts 10:46. Cornelius was a gentile Centurian who worshiped the Jewish God.
Acts 11:12 tells us that Peter and six Jewish Jesus-followers from Joppa at the home of the Roman centurion Cornelius.

IMHO here, "tongues" is not an unknown language between a Jesus-follower and God. It is a real language, spoken by real people, but unknown naturally to the speaker.

Also, I think it should be understood that speaking in tongues is not a universal sign of faith in Christ. That false teaching has lead to a lot of problems in the church today and No one should doubt their salvation because they don't speak in tongues.

It is my understanding of this Scripture is that it is a specific situation in which the Holy Spirit needed to prove a point: ........
Gentiles who are not circumcised or baptized, who have not had an apostle lay his hands on them, can receive the Holy Spirit because Salvation is by grace through faith and nothing we do.

You're right about tongues, especially gibberish tongues, not necessarily being a legitimate measure of Spirit baptism. In fact the pagan Greek oracles such as the Oracle of Dephi, spoke gibberish tongues.

The way the oracles operated was that they bought a retarded farm girl in her early teens if she could speak gibberish (a sign of demon possession?). They would then take her to the place where the oracle was to operate, usually a cave formed by a volcanic vent which emitted gases that provided hallucinogenic effects on the girl. There they would wait for people to come and ask for guidance from the gods, which they would pay for. Once they paid, their question was put to the oracle (the girl), and the oracle would start speaking gibberish while an "interpreter" translated and wrote down the guidance in plain language which was then given to the client.

 

[Major]

You're right about tongues, especially gibberish tongues, not necessarily being a legitimate measure of Spirit baptism. In fact the pagan Greek oracles such as the Oracle of Dephi, spoke gibberish tongues.

The way the oracles operated was that they bought a retarded farm girl in her early teens if she could speak gibberish (a sign of demon possession?). They would then take her to the place where the oracle was to operate, usually a cave formed by a volcanic vent which emitted gases that provided hallucinogenic effects on the girl. There they would wait for people to come and ask for guidance from the gods, which they would pay for. Once they paid, their question was put to the oracle (the girl), and the oracle would start speaking gibberish while an "interpreter" translated and wrote down the guidance in plain language which was then given to the client.

Yes sir. I have read that as well.

 

[Major]

I do not think gift on tongues nor apostle sign gifts are for today, but will allow a fellow Christian to see the tongues as for today IF they agree to abide by scripture practice and use of them, but not to get second act of Grace nor super saint status

Then you would be correct. However, if you crack the door open for a little falsehoods......you will always get a boat load of them, eventually.

A Little Leven spoils the whole loaf.

 

[Major]

I do not think gift on tongues nor apostle sign gifts are for today, but will allow a fellow Christian to see the tongues as for today IF they agree to abide by scripture practice and use of them, but not to get second act of Grace nor super saint status

The "Sign Gifts" were real and valis and were given to the ELEVEN in Mark 16. Those ELEVEN were the Apostles and they were given those Gifts and Signs that validated the gospel message that they preached.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Then you would be correct. However, if you crack the door open for a little falsehoods......you will always get a boat load of them, eventually.

A Little Leven spoils the whole loaf.

True, just was saying that the big problem is a lack of sound teaching and godly discernment in Pentecostal type churches, as majority of the time its not the Holy Spirit doing His work, but "another spirit"

 

[YeshuaFan]

The "Sign Gifts" were real and valis and were given to the ELEVEN in Mark 16. Those ELEVEN were the Apostles and they were given those Gifts and Signs that validated the gospel message that they preached.

Yes, Apostolic giftings not repeated when John passed on, as none claimed to be either a prophet or apostle until likes of Smith and Russell and White came along, and today Copeland, Hinn and the gang

 

[YeshuaFan]

You're right about tongues, especially gibberish tongues, not necessarily being a legitimate measure of Spirit baptism. In fact the pagan Greek oracles such as the Oracle of Dephi, spoke gibberish tongues.

The way the oracles operated was that they bought a retarded farm girl in her early teens if she could speak gibberish (a sign of demon possession?). They would then take her to the place where the oracle was to operate, usually a cave formed by a volcanic vent which emitted gases that provided hallucinogenic effects on the girl. There they would wait for people to come and ask for guidance from the gods, which they would pay for. Once they paid, their question was put to the oracle (the girl), and the oracle would start speaking gibberish while an "interpreter" translated and wrote down the guidance in plain language which was then given to the client.

Mormons claim tongues also, along with their "burning busom"

 

[BibleLover]

Mormons claim tongues also, along with their "burning busom"

In the Book of Acts there are also documented cases of conversion without tongues being spoken, such as the Ethiopian eunuch, Lydia of Philippi, and the jailor at Philippi.

 

[forgiven61]

Per the bible, must be done in order, 2 or 3 at most, and must have tongues translated into English, and yet how can gibberish be translated then?

yes i know what the bible says i have a dear friend lady pentecostal preacher .. her brother and i was great friends.. she is a good person.. we love each other like family.. she has her beliefs i have mine.. we have agreed to just not go there. in another church i was pastor at i asked her to do a mothers day service.. not one time did she preach or bring in tongues

 

[YeshuaFan]

yes i know what the bible says i have a dear friend lady pentecostal preacher .. her brother and i was great friends.. she is a good person.. we love each other like family.. she has her beliefs i have mine.. we have agreed to just not go there. in another church i was pastor at i asked her to do a mothers day service.. not one time did she preach or bring in tongues

was part of an AOG church when first saved, and one time lady stood up and started to speak "gibberish" and one of the elders stood up and rebuked her, stating had spirt of witchcraft using her

 

[YeshuaFan]

yes i know what the bible says i have a dear friend lady pentecostal preacher .. her brother and i was great friends.. she is a good person.. we love each other like family.. she has her beliefs i have mine.. we have agreed to just not go there. in another church i was pastor at i asked her to do a mothers day service.. not one time did she preach or bring in tongues

Know that j veron mcgee was life long friends with a Pentecostal preacher, and they agreed to admit each other were wrong on tongues, and then keep on fellowshipping

 

[Major]

Yes, Apostolic giftings not repeated when John passed on, as none claimed to be either a prophet or apostle until likes of Smith and Russell and White came along, and today Copeland, Hinn and the gang

Also.....there is not one single Scripture, or even a suggestion of Apostolic succession.

 

[Major]

Know that j veron mcgee was life long friends with a Pentecostal preacher, and they agreed to admit each other were wrong on tongues, and then keep on fellowshipping

Just as we are talking here about tongues, it can be done without anger or confrontation.

 

[Major]

was part of an AOG church when first saved, and one time lady stood up and started to speak "gibberish" and one of the elders stood up and rebuked her, stating had spirt of witchcraft using her

Biblically speaking...women can not be pastors or deacons. Of course that is for another thread.

 

[Major]

In the Book of Acts there are also documented cases of conversion without tongues being spoken, such as the Ethiopian eunuch, Lydia of Philippi, and the jailor at Philippi.

Yes, sir....the Bible records instances of some believers using the gift of tongues, but it does not teach that speaking in tongues is evidence of salvation.

When I was a young man, that is exactly what we were taught and were told by the AOG when soul winning.
Those who teach that one must speak in tongues to be saved tend to point to a few specific examples in the book of Acts where tongues was a sign of the indwelling Holy Spirit, and thus of salvation.

In Acts 19:4–6, the apostle Paul found some disciples of John the Baptist in Ephesus. These men had accepted John’s message of repentance but did not yet know about the Holy Spirit or speaking in tongues. Paul pointed them to Jesus, and they believed and were baptized in Jesus’ name.

 

[Major]

True, just was saying that the big problem is a lack of sound teaching and godly discernment in Pentecostal type churches, as majority of the time its not the Holy Spirit doing His work, but "another spirit"

Absolutely agree!

You see......tongues actually speak to the fleshy part of man which cries for excitement and emotionalism which translates into "Works".