A Question Of Faith?

Feb 8, 2014
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California
Hello, I have a question that has been nagging at my faith for years. I am currently not a Christian, but did spend many years as a believer and I have been married to one for 18 years. I won't go into the long history of my faith or lack of, but to say I do still pray frequently, I'm just not sure who I'm praying to.

Here is my question. I have heard many different opinions on free will from many different churches I have attended and they can boil down to two main ideas. 1 God chooses who he will save as he has a plan for each of us. 2 God is waiting for us to make the choice, accept his son and receive eternal salvation , don't and spend an eternity in hell. All agree that God is all powerful and all knowing.

Here is where my faith gets challenged.
God created me, and when he did he knew all there will ever be to know about me. He knows me better than I know myself. Before he even created me he knew that I would not chose his son and therefor spend an eternity in hell. He knows all, the beginning, the end, and everything between. He created me knowing he was going to damn me.

Now my wife says HE is not damning me, it's my choice. I am damning myself by not accepting him as he gave me the freedom to chose him or not.

Yes, but he made me who I am. As he breathed life into me he knew upon my death that he would condemn me to hell and all of its fury until the end of time. If God came to me before the conception of any of my children and showed me their full happy lives, all the grand children I will have, all of the happiness they would give others, and then all of the agony they would suffer as at the time of their death they too did not believe in Jesus and would be sent to hell.. And then gave me a choice for them to live that life or not, I would have to chose not. My children make me happier then life itself, my unconditional and absolute love for my children would keep me from making the selfish choice of life. I would forego the true happiness I receive from their existence if it meant they would not suffer an eternity in hell.

I have been told God is the purest love and he loves each of us beyond our understanding of the word. Yet, for me and millions of others, the bible says he has made me knowing he would be the one to send me to hell and an eternity of horror. I have the free will to accept him, yet he knew I would not. He may have a plan for my life, but that plan ends in hell.

How is that love? Does the bible have anything to say on this that I have missed or have not found?
 
Jan 19, 2014
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What you have encounter is the double predestination concept of Calvinistic theology, which I find to be unBiblical both from which the Bible explicitly teaches on the subject and the implications.

For example, Paul preached, "God determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us." Acts 17:26,27

That is not the rhetoric of fatalism advocated by Reformed Theology. In Acts 2:40 it says of Peter, "With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation."

The Bible uses the rhetoric of choice, free will, and advocates seeking when it speaks of a person coming to faith in Christ. People are not puppets as Reformed theology would have us believe.

Furthermore not only does Reformed theology, as Calvinism advocates, detract from God's character of love, it also makes God out to be unjust insomuch as it teaches that people are held accountable for things over which they have no control. Their doctrine of imputed guilt makes their position even clearer.

I would recommended ignoring such theology and deriving your theology from the Bible alone. You might consider leaving churches of a reformed theology, and of course avoiding other heretical denominations such as Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity. But wherever you end up going, be a Berean - scrutinize whatever you're taught in light of the Bible. Don't presume any post Biblical theologian is infallible.

"Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near. Let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will freely pardon." Is 55:6,7
 
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Hello, I have a question that has been nagging at my faith for years. I am currently not a Christian, but did spend many years as a believer and I have been married to one for 18 years. I won't go into the long history of my faith or lack of, but to say I do still pray frequently, I'm just not sure who I'm praying to.

Here is my question. I have heard many different opinions on free will from many different churches I have attended and they can boil down to two main ideas. 1 God chooses who he will save as he has a plan for each of us. 2 God is waiting for us to make the choice, accept his son and receive eternal salvation , don't and spend an eternity in hell. All agree that God is all powerful and all knowing.

Here is where my faith gets challenged.
God created me, and when he did he knew all there will ever be to know about me. He knows me better than I know myself. Before he even created me he knew that I would not chose his son and therefor spend an eternity in hell. He knows all, the beginning, the end, and everything between. He created me knowing he was going to damn me.

Now my wife says HE is not damning me, it's my choice. I am damning myself by not accepting him as he gave me the freedom to chose him or not.

Yes, but he made me who I am. As he breathed life into me he knew upon my death that he would condemn me to hell and all of its fury until the end of time. If God came to me before the conception of any of my children and showed me their full happy lives, all the grand children I will have, all of the happiness they would give others, and then all of the agony they would suffer as at the time of their death they too did not believe in Jesus and would be sent to hell.. And then gave me a choice for them to live that life or not, I would have to chose not. My children make me happier then life itself, my unconditional and absolute love for my children would keep me from making the selfish choice of life. I would forego the true happiness I receive from their existence if it meant they would not suffer an eternity in hell.

I have been told God is the purest love and he loves each of us beyond our understanding of the word. Yet, for me and millions of others, the bible says he has made me knowing he would be the one to send me to hell and an eternity of horror. I have the free will to accept him, yet he knew I would not. He may have a plan for my life, but that plan ends in hell.

How is that love? Does the bible have anything to say on this that I have missed or have not found?
You're right: it's all God's fault.....not!




You seem to believe there's a heaven, and that there's a hell.
You are focusing on the wrong thing! You are focusing on yourself and your the sins you have committed. Yes, sin is what will eventually condemn man to the lake of fire. But as for the "two main ideas": No!
(1) God does not choose who will go to hell: but He knows who will go there! Yet God has done everything possible for no one to be lost! God did not "predestinate" anyone for hell: although God did predestinate the One who would die for the sins of all men. (2) God is not waiting for anyone to "make a choice". Yes, God gave man a choice: but with that choice, God has given us the power to choose! In other words, we have the power to choose "...life or death, good and evil. Choose therefore life, that both you and you seed may live."
Had God not given us the power to choose, then He would have been unjust: He could not be God! But God has chosen for us to live: that is why God "...gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish...".
Beloved, you are listening to the words of the wrong father: even to the father of the children of disobedience!
 
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Nov 23, 2013
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Hello, I have a question that has been nagging at my faith for years. I am currently not a Christian, but did spend many years as a believer and I have been married to one for 18 years. I won't go into the long history of my faith or lack of, but to say I do still pray frequently, I'm just not sure who I'm praying to.

we are to pray to God the Father and pray in the name of His son Jesus ..

Here is my question. I have heard many different opinions on free will from many different churches I have attended and they can boil down to two main ideas. 1 God chooses who he will save as he has a plan for each of us. 2 God is waiting for us to make the choice, accept his son and receive eternal salvation , don't and spend an eternity in hell. All agree that God is all powerful and all knowing.

we do have free will to exercise as we choose ..

Here is where my faith gets challenged.
God created me, and when he did he knew all there will ever be to know about me.

God created Adam and Eve, and they in turn perpetuate God's act of creation .. indeed, God knew everything about each and everyone of us since the foundations of the world ..

He knows me better than I know myself. Before he even created me he knew that I would not chose his son and therefor spend an eternity in hell. He knows all, the beginning, the end, and everything between. He created me knowing he was going to damn me.

because God knew from the beginning who would choose Him and who would not choose Him does not negate free will ..

Now my wife says HE is not damning me, it's my choice. I am damning myself by not accepting him as he gave me the freedom to chose him or not.

she would be correct .. through free will we make a choices ..
and God just grants us what we freely choose ..


Yes, but he made me who I am.

no .. we make ourselves into who we are .. don't put that blame on God for being God and having foreknowledge .. it still is your free will choice ..

As he breathed life into me he knew upon my death that he would condemn me to hell and all of its fury until the end of time.

God knew what you would choose long before you were alive ..
but WHY are you so certain that you are not going to have a "change of heart" ..
can you not exercise your free will in the matter until the day you die ???


If God came to me before the conception of any of my children and showed me their full happy lives, all the grand children I will have, all of the happiness they would give others, and then all of the agony they would suffer as at the time of their death they too did not believe in Jesus and would be sent to hell.. And then gave me a choice for them to live that life or not, I would have to chose not.

this is where you err .. we do not follow a script God wrote ..
He allows US to write our own script .. so it can be ANYTHING we want it to be ..
because He is God (unlike a human could know what I will choose) He knows how we will choose to write the script of our lives ..


My children make me happier then life itself, my unconditional and absolute love for my children would keep me from making the selfish choice of life. I would forego the true happiness I receive from their existence if it meant they would not suffer an eternity in hell.

then teach them that God is real, and He loves us more then any of us can love each other .. you see, God gives us the FREE WILL CHOICE to have both ..
Jesus said; so often He wanted to gather us like a mother hen will her chicks, BUT WE WOULD NOT HAVE IT .. does that sound like we have no choice in the matter ???


I have been told God is the purest love and he loves each of us beyond our understanding of the word. Yet, for me and millions of others, the bible says he has made me knowing he would be the one to send me to hell and an eternity of horror.

you are stuck in a mentality that refuses to take control of your life, and blame God for your self-sating choices ..

I have the free will to accept him, yet he knew I would not.
He may have a plan for my life, but that plan ends in hell.

are you so sure you will not ???
the plan for hell that you are following is YOUR PLAN .. not His ..
and it seems to me, YOU do not want to change that Plan you devised ..
exercise your free will and CHANGE YOUR PLAN ..
God merely gives you what you choose ..
I'm praying for you ..


How is that love?

there is no love greater then for God to die for his weak, flawed creation ..
He did so because HE IS SHOWING US HIS LOVE FIRST ..
and LOVE IS NOT LOVE IF IT IS NOT OF FREE WILL ..
so those that choose God, are those who understand Love ..
God does not rebel against us .. He does everything possible to help us ..
but you see, FREE WILL is needed .. because God lets us love self and rebel against Him .. or love Him and our hearts are not set on just serving self .. but the one in whom all there is comes from ..

basically do we choose to be thankful and love Him back..
or be ungrateful and not love Him back .. the choice is ours ..

and that FREE WILL choice defines our hearts and our fate ..

Does the bible have anything to say on this that I have missed or have not found?

it has lots on this .. the WHOLE of the NT is about love of God for us, and why we should love Him back .. I leave it to others to give you some good verses to read ..

God Bless you ..
 
Last edited:
Feb 13, 2014
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Hello, I have a question that has been nagging at my faith for years. I am currently not a Christian, but did spend many years as a believer and I have been married to one for 18 years. I won't go into the long history of my faith or lack of, but to say I do still pray frequently, I'm just not sure who I'm praying to.

Here is my question. I have heard many different opinions on free will from many different churches I have attended and they can boil down to two main ideas. 1 God chooses who he will save as he has a plan for each of us. 2 God is waiting for us to make the choice, accept his son and receive eternal salvation , don't and spend an eternity in hell. All agree that God is all powerful and all knowing.

Here is where my faith gets challenged.
God created me, and when he did he knew all there will ever be to know about me. He knows me better than I know myself. Before he even created me he knew that I would not chose his son and therefor spend an eternity in hell. He knows all, the beginning, the end, and everything between. He created me knowing he was going to damn me.

Now my wife says HE is not damning me, it's my choice. I am damning myself by not accepting him as he gave me the freedom to chose him or not.

Yes, but he made me who I am. As he breathed life into me he knew upon my death that he would condemn me to hell and all of its fury until the end of time. If God came to me before the conception of any of my children and showed me their full happy lives, all the grand children I will have, all of the happiness they would give others, and then all of the agony they would suffer as at the time of their death they too did not believe in Jesus and would be sent to hell.. And then gave me a choice for them to live that life or not, I would have to chose not. My children make me happier then life itself, my unconditional and absolute love for my children would keep me from making the selfish choice of life. I would forego the true happiness I receive from their existence if it meant they would not suffer an eternity in hell.

I have been told God is the purest love and he loves each of us beyond our understanding of the word. Yet, for me and millions of others, the bible says he has made me knowing he would be the one to send me to hell and an eternity of horror. I have the free will to accept him, yet he knew I would not. He may have a plan for my life, but that plan ends in hell.

How is that love? Does the bible have anything to say on this that I have missed or have not found?
What you are talking about is Ephesians 1:4-1:5 which says " According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will."

The chosen are not a select group but all of humanity and the predestinated are also all of humanity. Jesus' sacrifice made God's destiny true for all since everyone's sins were placed on Jesus all are destined for salvation (see 1 John 2:2). Nevertheless, God's destiny for a person is only real in Jesus (that is you can only live God's destiny for you by salvation which causes someone to live their destiny in Christ). Jesus said that this was not his world (John 17:16; John 18:36). Earth is where God allows people to choose either the destiny God has for them or to determine to have their own destiny apart from God, which in that case will be determined by their sin, because sin manifests death and separation from God. It is God's purpose and will for all to be saved, but by free will some choose to not follow God's purpose for their lives.

God wants you with him to share life, love, and joy with him. Jesus has already paid for your sins. It is God's will for you to follow the loving and good plan and purpose he has for you. It is God's will for you to know him and be loved by him. You still can choose life with him.