a very odd dream... please look inside and tell me what u think

[Abdicate]

It is true that in the past, God spoke to people sometimes in dreams. Examples are Joseph, son of Jacob; Joseph, the husband of Mary; Solomon; and several others. There is also a prophecy of the prophet Joel and, quoted by the apostle Peter that mentions God using dreams. So God can speak through dreams, if He chooses to.

We also know that God can and did speak to man through a jackass and a burning bush so dreams would not be a stretch.
But the fact is that dreams can come and do come from food we eat and the stress of the days we live in. Dreams can also come from the medication we take at times.

What must be considered is that we keep in mind that the Bible is now complete, having revealed everything we need to know from now until eternity. This is not to say that God does not work miracles or even speak through dreams today, but anything God says, whether through a dream, vision, impression, or “still small voice,” must agree completely with what He has already revealed in His Word. Dreams cannot usurp the authority of Scripture.

If you have a dream and feel that perhaps God gave it to you, prayerfully examine the Word of God and make sure your dream is in agreement with Scripture. If it is, prayerfully consider what God would have you do in response to your dream. In Scripture, whenever anyone experienced a dream from God, God always made the meaning of the dream clear, whether directly to the person, through an angel, or through another messenger so we really should not have a problem trying to figure out what it was He is trying to say. When God speaks to us, He makes sure His message is clearly understood.

I for one discount dreams completely as it is one obvious way for the enemy to try and confuse us and get our eyes off of Christ.

Romans 10:17........
"Faith comes by HEARING and hearing by the Word of God".

How could it be any clearer than that???

Brother, we all know you don't believe in the supernatural for the common Joe and that even though you admit they are possible, you explain them away or state "if it's God's will" even when the word of God says it is all certainly possible. John says the world cannot contain the books about Jesus, image all the rest. The word of God is merely a summary, a table of contents, to what is available to us. God is infinite and we are too through Jesus. The word of God says that the things of this world are just a shadow of the things in the real realm. Why won't you allow the real world into your shadow world? I think you need to have more HEARING because even with the word of God you still don't believe. What happened to make you so cynical about the supernatural?

You give biblical examples and then you say...

But the fact is that...

So your words, your understanding is greater that the word of God? Brother, I'm not trying to put you down, I'm trying to get you to see the turmoil you're in because you defend the word of God then totally dismiss it. You can't have it both way and by dismissing it you reject it. Isn't that the very definition of having a double mind? I'm struggling with this just like you. I'm praying for you and me.

 

[Major]

Brother, we all know you don't believe in the supernatural for the common Joe and that even though you admit they are possible, you explain them away or state "if it's God's will" even when the word of God says it is all certainly possible. John says the world cannot contain the books about Jesus, image all the rest. The word of God is merely a summary, a table of contents, to what is available to us. God is infinite and we are too through Jesus. The word of God says that the things of this world are just a shadow of the things in the real realm. Why won't you allow the real world into your shadow world? I think you need to have more HEARING because even with the word of God you still don't believe. What happened to make you so cynical about the supernatural?

You give biblical examples and then you say...

So your words, your understanding is greater that the word of God? Brother, I'm not trying to put you down, I'm trying to get you to see the turmoil you're in because you defend the word of God then totally dismiss it. You can't have it both way and by dismissing it you reject it. Isn't that the very definition of having a double mind? I'm struggling with this just like you. I'm praying for you and me.

Now remember, you just challenged me and did in fact put me down. You say you are not trying to but you in fact you did.

I would not say this unless I was placed in the position you just placed me. Now then, What YOU call the supernatural is what I call fraud and tricks and make believe. The fact is that what you just said is the opposite of what I believe. You my friend believe in tongues and healing and so forth. I simply do not accept that as Bible fact for today and you do. All of this stuff we see on TV is nothing more than carnal Christians working up miracles and works in the flesh because they do not have enough faith to believe the simple Word of God. Yes there was a time when all of that happened and it was done by the 12 apostles but that is not what is going on today. Not in my opinion. If you call that doubled minded, then I guess that is your perception.

My words are nothing my friend and I am in no turmoil at all and in fact I am not struggling with anything at all my brother. The truth is that it seems to me you are the one who is upset and in turmoil. You say it is over concern for me but I must say that that seems like a weak explanation to me.

I am a real person and I living in the real world. If you believe that God is still speaking in an audible voice then go right on believing it. If you believe that God is still speaking to us through dreams instead of the Word of God, go right on believing that.
BUT..........do not place me in a position which I do not belong simply because I do not believe the way you do.

Thanks for the prayers and please continue.

 

[Major]

I agree with some of what you said..but how could it take your eyes off Christ, my dream was mainly about him ...and for me...it helped me get closer to him..

Because my dear sister, there is no way for any of us to know that the dream was from God or from Satan. Satan is the master of lies and deception and he has been doing his trade for millions of years and he is so good at it that it is virtually impossible to know the difference. THAT is why it is important be grounded and rooted in the Word of God.

I do not say these things to upset you are harm you or cause you any discomfort and if I have I am deeply sorry for it. My heart is to protect you as a young woman so that you might be able to fight off the darts and arrows of the devil who will do anything to harm you and trick you and get your eyes off of Jesus.

You see my sister, you have never seen Jesus or spoken to Him so there is nothing to compare a dream with!!!!!

The way to get closer to the Lord Jesus is to open your Bible and read His Word. Then find yourself a church that believes that the Bible is the Word of God and go to it on a regular basis. That is the key to growth and knowledge.

 

[Waggles]

Now then, What YOU call the supernatural is what I call fraud and tricks and make believe. The fact is that what you just said is the opposite of what I believe. You my friend believe in tongues and healing and so forth. I simply do not accept that as Bible fact for today and you do.

Sad, really sad. You are denying yourself in believing the full gospel preached by Jesus and the Apostles.
You are missing out on the power and strength of the Holy Spirit working within you.
There is no fraud in the many wonderful God given miracles wrought by the Holy Spirit in full accordance with the Book of Acts and the Epistles.
In Pentecost Churches given to wholesome obedience to the Word of God the miracles and healings are numerous and marvellous.
The lame walk, the blind see, the deaf hear, the dead have been raised up, the angry and violent are given peace, criminals become righteous,
atheists are converted by signs following, peoples lives are changed overnight for the better, gamblers stop gambling, and just so much more...

Jesus our Lord and our God spoke these verses himself in full authority -
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following.
Mark 16:15-20
These verses are only controversial to those who do not want to believe them, nor submit in obedience to them.
However, Bible Numerics proves beyond doubt that these verses are God given and are truth - no interpolation by others.
And no where does Jesus or the Apostles preach that these signs shall cease and people shall believe another or lesser gospel; other
than warnings against apostasy.

Jude writes:
17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, [praying in tongues]
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

The fact that people can be converted by the original gospel revealed on the Day of Pentecost and experience the same signs and
wonders as the original Church is testimony to the ongoing truth and necessity for Acts 2:38-39
For if as many would claim that the Apostolic Gospel has been done away with centuries ago, then God would not be honouring the same
original gospel with signs following today.

He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard
whether there be any Holy Ghost. Acts 19:2
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
And all the men were about twelve. Acts 19:5-7

And there you have it; the Bible evidence of being born anew by water and the Holy Spirit. God given to avoid all controversy and other
gospels. And despite all your unbelief and denial this same gospel is being preached with the five signs following all over the world today.
To experience the spiritual one has to become spiritual through the indwelling Holy Spirit - living water.

 

[Abdicate]

Because my dear sister, there is no way for any of us to know that the dream was from God or from Satan. Satan is the master of lies and deception and he has been doing his trade for millions of years and he is so good at it that it is virtually impossible to know the difference. THAT is why it is important be grounded and rooted in the Word of God.

I do not say these things to upset you are harm you or cause you any discomfort and if I have I am deeply sorry for it. My heart is to protect you as a young woman so that you might be able to fight off the darts and arrows of the devil who will do anything to harm you and trick you and get your eyes off of Jesus.

You see my sister, you have never seen Jesus or spoken to Him so there is nothing to compare a dream with!!!!!

The way to get closer to the Lord Jesus is to open your Bible and read His Word. Then find yourself a church that believes that the Bible is the Word of God and go to it on a regular basis. That is the key to growth and knowledge.

Oh dear brother, why do you believe the devil can do so much more than God!? Giving one credit for dreams when the word of God says God actually speaks in dreams and not one word about the devil's abilities!? Why do you not want God to be a part of your life as much as you think the devil is? Who is greater? Then why limit God to the paper version of the word of God? What good is knowledge without change? What if you can't read or you don't have a copy of the word of God? Then what!? You advise to get closer to Jesus via the written paper but negate everything written in it as "it's not for us", then I say, how do you know salvation is for us while not healings? Is it because you can't "see" salvation, but because you can see the sick, therefore healings are just theater? Really!? Was it theater when my wife was healed or myself when my genetics changed? Who did that? Glory to God, GOD did it! Do you not believe Paul who says "the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power!" I don't care if you believe the word of God or not, you have to live with that choice, but I ask, what part of the word of God IS for us!?

 

[CCW95A]

Many times in the Old Testament God spoke to people through "dreams". He still speaks to his people through dreams today as it has already been mentioned that in the last days God will cause men to dream dreams, and we are surely living in the last days. I have on several occasions been given dreams from the Lord concerning my life, and I knew it was from the Lord as I could remember every little detail about it, plus the Lord gave me the interpretation. God is a "visual" teacher, and most, if not all people are "visual" learners.

Psa 16:7.. I bless the LORD who gives me counsel; in the night also my heart instructs me.

Psa 17:3.. Thou hast proved mine heart; thou hast visited me in the night; thou hast tried me, and shalt find nothing; I am purposed that my mouth shall not transgress.

 

[Major]

Oh dear brother, why do you believe the devil can do so much more than God!? Giving one credit for dreams when the word of God says God actually speaks in dreams and not one word about the devil's abilities!? Why do you not want God to be a part of your life as much as you think the devil is? Who is greater? Then why limit God to the paper version of the word of God? What good is knowledge without change? What if you can't read or you don't have a copy of the word of God? Then what!? You advise to get closer to Jesus via the written paper but negate everything written in it as "it's not for us", then I say, how do you know salvation is for us while not healings? Is it because you can't "see" salvation, but because you can see the sick, therefore healings are just theater? Really!? Was it theater when my wife was healed or myself when my genetics changed? Who did that? Glory to God, GOD did it! Do you not believe Paul who says "the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power!" I don't care if you believe the word of God or not, you have to live with that choice, but I ask, what part of the word of God IS for us!?

I am not going to argue with you my brother. If you want to believe that God speaks to us through dreams then please go right ahead and do so.

I am somewhat disturbed that you would add to what I have said and then work to distort it as you have clearly done. But, again, if that is what you want to do then go right ahead. Everything I have said is available to all to read and I am sure it is clear to be understood by anyone who wants to know.

It is challenging to me that a man with your knowledge would not speak to the Scriptures on this subject but instead would challenge my perception by demanding that we add "emotions" to our faith. But again, you are free to do as you wish.

Hebrews 1:1-2.......
"God who in sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son whom He hath appointed heir of all things".

2 Timothy 3:16-17 explains that........
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

This passage plainly tells us the word of God is sufficient for meeting all our needs for instruction from God.

Further Hebrews 4:12 says.........
"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

God proclaims emphatically that His word is to be the "discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Therefore God has given us the tool or the means to determine if our experiences are from Him or not. His word sets the absolute criteria God tells us to use.

Again, as for dreams, I can tell you that the cults were formed when their supposed prophets received special visions, dreams and visitations or revelations from God, and they supposedly were told to form special churches or movements. Among those groups are the Mormons, Christian Science, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventist. Each claims God spoke or appeared to them directly and now they represent God and men should follow them. Again, this is history and anyone can look up and confirm what I just said.

I do not uselly go into such detail but I feel that in this case it would be helpful. No one has to believe anything I say!
All one has to do is look all of this up for yourself and see if it is truthful or not. It just is not that hard to find out.

Again, the question must be asked, how can anyone determine that what is being presented is really coming from God? Among the revelations the cults say they received there is great contradictions and yet each claim that what they saw or heard was from God. If their "revelation" or "dream" came from God why does it contradict the teaching of Bible and also of others who make the same claim to receiving authentic revelation from God? The point is that dreams and visions are subjective. How can one determine they came from God and how can one interpret the dream?

When we then consider dreams, visions and revelations men receive can be divided into two groups. The first group would include the cult leaders of false religions that are clearly not doctrinally sound and their revelations contradict the Scripture. The modern day revelations of this group are clearly not from God because God would never contradiction Himself.

Often the "dreamer" is perpetuating a hoax intended to deceive people into following them. WHY? Because it is easy to do and fool people by faking something that others really sincerely want to hear. They claim their visions or visitations from God gave them special authority to form their new movements and teachings. A prime example is Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormonism, who claimed God and Jesus appeared to him and told him all the churches on earth were false. He was to form a new church and preach the "restored" gospel. However, the church he formed and its teachings are wholly unbiblical which proves Smith received no visitation from God. God does not contradict Himself.

The second group would involve those who have had experiences in which they believe God or Jesus appeared, spoke to them in a dream or vision. In the second group are also those who had strange, vivid dreams that left them very emotional. This group is very sincere. Although we can dismiss the revelations of the first group as being spurious, what about the second group? Some among these are people who profess to be Christians and are very sincere in believing or wondering that what they experienced was from God.

Now let me be clear so that there is no misunderstanding. God did in fact, reveal himself to men in the Old Testament in dreams, visions, experiences, symbols, and a host of other means just as recorded in Hebrews 1;1-2. However, during most of the Old Testament times the people did not have the written word of God, therefore God directed them through the prophet who recorded what God told them and that became the written word.

1 Peter 1:21.........
"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

However, and to clear up any confusion and or distortions, may I say that it is my opinion from my understanding of the Scriptures that God is now revealing Himself through His written Word, and that age of God speaking in visions and dreams has past. As a cessationist, that would mean IMO that there are no prophets or apostles today as well. That is what I have consistently stated.

 

[Major]

Many times in the Old Testament God spoke to people through "dreams". He still speaks to his people through dreams today as it has already been mentioned that in the last days God will cause men to dream dreams, and we are surely living in the last days. I have on several occasions been given dreams from the Lord concerning my life, and I knew it was from the Lord as I could remember every little detail about it, plus the Lord gave me the interpretation. God is a "visual" teacher, and most, if not all people are "visual" learners.

Psa 16:7.. I bless the LORD who gives me counsel; in the night also my heart instructs me.

Psa 17:3.. Thou hast proved mine heart; thou hast visited me in the night; thou hast tried me, and shalt find nothing; I am purposed that my mouth shall not transgress.

Yes, many times God spoke to men in dreams in days past. But today is a different time and Scripture clearly defines that.

Hebrews 1:1-2..........
"God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in TIME PAST unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things".

Is it not clear that the agent of God's revelation today is the Lord Jesus Christ???? What else could God have said that would have made this verse easier to understand?

The messages from the prophets was fragmentary and incomplete. It came it bits and pieces through visions, and dreams, events, and direct communication as men were ready and able to receive it. Christ's revelations are climatic and complete because He is the Son of God and because His is the message of the last days.

As for quoting " the last days God will cause men to dream dreams, and we are surely living in the last days", that actually does not apply to your thesis.

That was spoken by Joel in Joel 2:28-32 and quoted by Peter in Acts 2:17. That happened to the 120 in the upper room but it did not happen to ALL people as Joel said. It will happen but it did not happen in Acts 2:17.

 

[CCW95A]

Yes, many times God spoke to men in dreams in days past. But today is a different time and Scripture clearly defines that.

Hebrews 1:1-2..........
"God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in TIME PAST unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things".

Is it not clear that the agent of God's revelation today is the Lord Jesus Christ???? What else could God have said that would have made this verse easier to understand?

The messages from the prophets was fragmentary and incomplete. It came it bits and pieces through visions, and dreams, events, and direct communication as men were ready and able to receive it. Christ's revelations are climatic and complete because He is the Son of God and because His is the message of the last days.

As for quoting " the last days God will cause men to dream dreams, and we are surely living in the last days", that actually does not apply to your thesis.

That was spoken by Joel in Joel 2:28-32 and quoted by Peter in Acts 2:17. That happened to the 120 in the upper room but it did not happen to ALL people as Joel said. It will happen but it did not happen in Acts 2:17.

The out pouring of God's Spirit upon all flesh did not finish on the the day of Pentecost, it only began, and it is still happening today. Joel said in the "in the last days..." plural, not singular, it was not only for just one day. The day of Pentecost was only the start of God's out pouring of his Spirit.

Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Don't forget, God is not just the Word of God (Jesus Christ) , he is also the Father, and the Holy Spirit. These dreams and visions come as the results of the Holy Spirit being poured out. The Holy Spirit is not the Word of God. Does God speak to us by his Spirit?

 

[Major]

The out pouring of God's Spirit upon all flesh did not finish on the the day of Pentecost, it only began, and it is still happening today. Joel said in the "in the last days..." plural, not singular, it was not only for just one day. The day of Pentecost was only the start of God's out pouring of his Spirit.

Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Don't forget, God is not just the Word of God (Jesus Christ) , he is also the Father, and the Holy Spirit. These dreams and visions come as the results of the Holy Spirit being poured out. The Holy Spirit is not the Word of God. Does God speak to us by his Spirit?

Believe me my brother when I say to you that I know how badly you want Acts 2:16-17 quote of Joel to be the pouring out of the Holy Spirit to confirm the signs and tounges and dreams.but alas it is not.

Remember Joel said that when it happens the moon will be turned to blood. I can not find that event is history or Scriptures.
He also said that the sun would turn to darkness and that did not happen either. Those hings did not happen on the day of Pentacost my brother.

When Christ was crucified there was darkness for 3 hours but NOT on the day of Pentecost. Nor were there wonders in heaven above or signs in the earth below. There was not any blood and fire and a vapor of smoke.

Peter quoted this passage to these mockers to show them that the out pouring of the Holy Spirit of God should not be strange to them. When we read the book of Joel we see that he talks of war and judgment on the earth. That has not been fulfilled and was not fulfilled on Penetcost.

Peter said that the day Joel spoke of is coming some day, BUT this is not it. On Pentecost, something "like" that took place but it was not the fulfillment of the prophecy because only 120 men and women were affected in the upper room and not "ALL" flesh as Joel stated. Did you notice that Peter said...."Ye men of ISRAEL". He was speaking to Jews. The "Day of the Lord" is going to begin with the Great Tribultion Period and will go on for 7 years and its focus is on Israel and the Jews.It is THEN that the Holy Spirit will be poured out.

Of course that is MY understanding and you are welcome to reject it.

 

[CCW95A]

Believe me my brother when I say to you that I know how badly you want Acts 2:16-17 quote of Joel to be the pouring out of the Holy Spirit to confirm the signs and tounges and dreams.but alas it is not.

Remember Joel said that when it happens the moon will be turned to blood. I can not find that event is history or Scriptures.
He also said that the sun would turn to darkness and that did not happen either. Those hings did not happen on the day of Pentacost my brother.

When Christ was crucified there was darkness for 3 hours but NOT on the day of Pentecost. Nor were there wonders in heaven above or signs in the earth below. There was not any blood and fire and a vapor of smoke.

Peter quoted this passage to these mockers to show them that the out pouring of the Holy Spirit of God should not be strange to them. When we read the book of Joel we see that he talks of war and judgment on the earth. That has not been fulfilled and was not fulfilled on Penetcost.

Peter said that the day Joel spoke of is coming some day, BUT this is not it. On Pentecost, something "like" that took place but it was not the fulfillment of the prophecy because only 120 men and women were affected in the upper room and not "ALL" flesh as Joel stated. Did you notice that Peter said...."Ye men of ISRAEL". He was speaking to Jews. The "Day of the Lord" is going to begin with the Great Tribultion Period and will go on for 7 years and its focus is on Israel and the Jews.It is THEN that the Holy Spirit will be poured out.

Of course that is MY understanding and you are welcome to reject it.

Brother Major, Peter himself said that what was happening right then and there was the "beginning", or the "start" of what the Prophet Joel had prophesied about in the Old Testament. Peter did not just quote this scripture for no reason at all.

Act 2:16.. But [instead] this is [the beginning of] what was spoken through the prophet Joel:
Act 2:17.. And it shall come to pass in the last days, God declares, that I will pour out of My Spirit upon all mankind, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy [telling forth the divine counsels] and your young men shall see visions (divinely granted appearances), and your old men shall dream [divinely suggested] dreams. (Amp)

Act 2:16.. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; (KJV)

This is that, what? It was the beginning of the fulfillment of Joel's prophesy, not the end, or completing but the start of!!

 

[Major]

Brother Major, Peter himself said that what was happening right then and there was the "beginning", or the "start" of what the Prophet Joel had prophesied about in the Old Testament. Peter did not just quote this scripture for no reason at all.

Act 2:16.. But [instead] this is [the beginning of] what was spoken through the prophet Joel:
Act 2:17.. And it shall come to pass in the last days, God declares, that I will pour out of My Spirit upon all mankind, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy [telling forth the divine counsels] and your young men shall see visions (divinely granted appearances), and your old men shall dream [divinely suggested] dreams. (Amp)

Act 2:16.. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; (KJV)

This is that, what? It was the beginning of the fulfillment of Joel's prophesy, not the end, or completing but the start of!!

I hear you brother and I understand what you are saying. I thought the same think for a long time. Now however I have come to a different opinion.

I believe verse 20 of Acts 2 refers to a future judgment, as described in Rev. 6:12. It is my understanding that Peter is saying that what happened to the 120 are a sign, of the coming times of blessing for Israel, but which are preceded by divine judgment.

That judgment began at the cross, and was poured out on Israel/Jerusalem in 70 A.D. at the destruction of Jerusalem. But that is only the tip of the iceberg. The great day of judgment is coming, and for this men must prepare by repenting and trusting in Jesus.

Consider "The Bible Knowledge Commentary" which says................

Acts 2:16-21. Instead of being drunk the believers were experiencing what was described in Joel 2. In Peter’s words, This is what was spoken by the Prophet Joel. This clause does not mean, “This is like that”; it means Pentecost fulfilled what Joel had described. However, the prophecies of Joel quoted in Acts 2:19-20 were not fulfilled. The implication is that the remainder would [not] be fulfilled if Israel would repent. This aspect of contingency is discussed more fully in the comments on 3:19-23."

Then from ---https://bible.org/article/pentecostal-experience-study-acts-2
"Peter was telling his listeners that what took place on the day of Pentecost was predicted by the prophet. Of course Joel’s prophecy was not fulfilled then and there in its fullest sense, for its complete fulfillment is closely connected with the restoration of Israel, when Messiah’s earthly people will be redeemed. However, the dispensation of the Spirit had its beginning at Pentecost. It is fast moving to a close, when ALL Israel will share in the outpouring of the Spirit."

 

[CCW95A]

I hear you brother and I understand what you are saying. I thought the same think for a long time. Now however I have come to a different opinion.

I believe verse 20 of Acts 2 refers to a future judgment, as described in Rev. 6:12. It is my understanding that Peter is saying that what happened to the 120 are a sign, of the coming times of blessing for Israel, but which are preceded by divine judgment.

That judgment began at the cross, and was poured out on Israel/Jerusalem in 70 A.D. at the destruction of Jerusalem. But that is only the tip of the iceberg. The great day of judgment is coming, and for this men must prepare by repenting and trusting in Jesus.

Consider "The Bible Knowledge Commentary" which says................

Acts 2:16-21. Instead of being drunk the believers were experiencing what was described in Joel 2. In Peter’s words, This is what was spoken by the Prophet Joel. This clause does not mean, “This is like that”; it means Pentecost fulfilled what Joel had described. However, the prophecies of Joel quoted in Acts 2:19-20 were not fulfilled. The implication is that the remainder would [not] be fulfilled if Israel would repent. This aspect of contingency is discussed more fully in the comments on 3:19-23."

Then from ---https://bible.org/article/pentecostal-experience-study-acts-2
"Peter was telling his listeners that what took place on the day of Pentecost was predicted by the prophet. Of course Joel’s prophecy was not fulfilled then and there in its fullest sense, for its complete fulfillment is closely connected with the restoration of Israel, when Messiah’s earthly people will be redeemed. However, the dispensation of the Spirit had its beginning at Pentecost. It is fast moving to a close, when ALL Israel will share in the outpouring of the Spirit."

I understand your position brother, but I see the day of Pentecost as being "day one" of the many days in the last days to come. There are a lot of things Joel prophesied about in the Old Testament, and all of them can not be fulfilled in one day, but many. The out pouring of God's Spirit on the day of Pentecost was just the start of the many days to come to where all of what was Prophesied by Joel would come to completion.

 

[Abdicate]

I am not going to argue with you my brother. If you want to believe that God speaks to us through dreams then please go right ahead and do so.

I am somewhat disturbed that you would add to what I have said and then work to distort it as you have clearly done. But, again, if that is what you want to do then go right ahead. Everything I have said is available to all to read and I am sure it is clear to be understood by anyone who wants to know.

It is challenging to me that a man with your knowledge would not speak to the Scriptures on this subject but instead would challenge my perception by demanding that we add "emotions" to our faith. But again, you are free to do as you wish.

Hebrews 1:1-2.......
"God who in sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son whom He hath appointed heir of all things".

2 Timothy 3:16-17 explains that........
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

This passage plainly tells us the word of God is sufficient for meeting all our needs for instruction from God.

Further Hebrews 4:12 says.........
"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

God proclaims emphatically that His word is to be the "discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Therefore God has given us the tool or the means to determine if our experiences are from Him or not. His word sets the absolute criteria God tells us to use.

Again, as for dreams, I can tell you that the cults were formed when their supposed prophets received special visions, dreams and visitations or revelations from God, and they supposedly were told to form special churches or movements. Among those groups are the Mormons, Christian Science, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventist. Each claims God spoke or appeared to them directly and now they represent God and men should follow them. Again, this is history and anyone can look up and confirm what I just said.

I do not uselly go into such detail but I feel that in this case it would be helpful. No one has to believe anything I say!
All one has to do is look all of this up for yourself and see if it is truthful or not. It just is not that hard to find out.

Again, the question must be asked, how can anyone determine that what is being presented is really coming from God? Among the revelations the cults say they received there is great contradictions and yet each claim that what they saw or heard was from God. If their "revelation" or "dream" came from God why does it contradict the teaching of Bible and also of others who make the same claim to receiving authentic revelation from God? The point is that dreams and visions are subjective. How can one determine they came from God and how can one interpret the dream?

When we then consider dreams, visions and revelations men receive can be divided into two groups. The first group would include the cult leaders of false religions that are clearly not doctrinally sound and their revelations contradict the Scripture. The modern day revelations of this group are clearly not from God because God would never contradiction Himself.

Often the "dreamer" is perpetuating a hoax intended to deceive people into following them. WHY? Because it is easy to do and fool people by faking something that others really sincerely want to hear. They claim their visions or visitations from God gave them special authority to form their new movements and teachings. A prime example is Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormonism, who claimed God and Jesus appeared to him and told him all the churches on earth were false. He was to form a new church and preach the "restored" gospel. However, the church he formed and its teachings are wholly unbiblical which proves Smith received no visitation from God. God does not contradict Himself.

The second group would involve those who have had experiences in which they believe God or Jesus appeared, spoke to them in a dream or vision. In the second group are also those who had strange, vivid dreams that left them very emotional. This group is very sincere. Although we can dismiss the revelations of the first group as being spurious, what about the second group? Some among these are people who profess to be Christians and are very sincere in believing or wondering that what they experienced was from God.

Now let me be clear so that there is no misunderstanding. God did in fact, reveal himself to men in the Old Testament in dreams, visions, experiences, symbols, and a host of other means just as recorded in Hebrews 1;1-2. However, during most of the Old Testament times the people did not have the written word of God, therefore God directed them through the prophet who recorded what God told them and that became the written word.

1 Peter 1:21.........
"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

However, and to clear up any confusion and or distortions, may I say that it is my opinion from my understanding of the Scriptures that God is now revealing Himself through His written Word, and that age of God speaking in visions and dreams has past. As a cessationist, that would mean IMO that there are no prophets or apostles today as well. That is what I have consistently stated.

The word of God is not God, sorry bother. The Word of God is Jesus, capital W. I really don't know what you believe, because you negate so much of the word of God.

Proverbs 18:21 (KJV)

Death and life [are] in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.​

 

[Major]

I understand your position brother, but I see the day of Pentecost as being "day one" of the many days in the last days to come. There are a lot of things Joel prophesied about in the Old Testament, and all of them can not be fulfilled in one day, but many. The out pouring of God's Spirit on the day of Pentecost was just the start of the many days to come to where all of what was Prophesied by Joel would come to completion.

I understand completely and as I said, I thought the same thing for a long time. I just feel different now about it and I see the beginning of the church and the coming judgment of Israel as two different things with two different applications.

Always good to be able to disagree in love.