No its clearly these folks who mix law and grace, and I have made several biblical points that show this.
About Jesus’ Warning To Members Of Today’s Laodicean Church
- Thread starter Osterloh
- Start date
Right it is those who "boast" in works that are proud, but in grace there is no confidence or boasting in the flesh.
IMO, if you check, you will find that most scholars, commentators, etc.
believe that NOT only Group #4 were BACs.
#1 ... never believe
#2 ... believe for a while
#3 ... believe? but bear no fruit to maturity
#4 ... bear fruit with patience
The very first fruit that is ever produced in someone who has received the Word is the new birth.
Being born again of the incorruptible seed of the Word of God. There is no such a thing as partial new birth.
Remember for as many as received him (the Word) to them gave he power to become a son of God. Receiving the Word only gives you power to become a child of God. If you never exercise that power you never become one.
I just cannot remember anything about fruit producing
that is not about some person doing it, or failing to do it.
I'm gonna have to sit down and read the word all over again.
Becoming a Christian, or child of God is like seed being planted in the ground. Once the seed in planted it must be cared for so that the cares of this world or the deceitfulness of riches, or the lusts of other things enter in and prevents the fruit from being produced. Once the fruit is brought forth that person becomes born again of the seed of the Word of God through the Spirit of God. The fruit that is produced does come from the person, as it is the fruit of the Word. That tree, or vine can never at any time produce bad fruit, because the Word can never produce bad fruit. In the parable of the sower there is no such a person who ever produced good fruit and then produced bad fruit or ever became fruitless because it is the seed in the Word that produces more fruit not the person. As Jesus tells us....
Matt 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Does a tree "do" any works to produce fruit? Yes maybe you should read some more.
1 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;
and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself,
unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me,
and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered;
and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."
The above is simply a warning to believers who can read and understand what is being said.
Any takers? ... Probably not, only whiners and complainers!
Waaaaah, he wants to take my cheap grace from me ...
and replace it with some accountability, co-operation, and obedience!
Waaaaah, Mommy he's not a nice man!
Our pastor promised we're good to go! Waaaaah!
2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;
and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself,
unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me,
and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered;
and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."
The above is simply a warning to believers who can read and understand what is being said.
Any takers? ... Probably not, only whiners and complainers!
Waaaaah, he wants to take my cheap grace from me ...
and replace it with some accountability, co-operation, and obedience!
Waaaaah, Mommy he's not a nice man!
Our pastor promised we're good to go! Waaaaah!
We (many of our churches) variously share characteristics with all seven churches...but these were the churches of John's time...
No. But it is the law of nature, God, that allows a fruit tree to produce the fruit particular to its kind.
I agree that we can lose our salvation, but you are making it seem like keeping it is shallow / works based.
Vs 4 answers / provides context for vs 2. ''Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself,
unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me''.
'Abiding in Him' can be seen as simply being a 'true' BAC. This parable could also be taken with Matt 7:22 and many could be forgiven for assuming it is speaking of unsaved with saved. There are many 'unsaved / pharisees' in church.
Yes, this is the tough question ... Just what is required?
IMO, it is similar to being "in Christ", or not.
I cannot decide if being "in Christ" refers to
just a (lukewarm) BAC ... or ... a faithful, obedient, etc. BAC.
Why yes it does work.
It converts sunlight into sugars that it uses to grow and mature into a fruit producer.
And so it is the way with people depending on what they are given to create that fruit.
Light from God, good fruit.
Darkness from sin, bad fruit.
Fruit involves work. There is no parthenogenesis.