Adam's Responsibilities In The Garden.

CCW95A said:
In your account of Gen 6:13-17 (Noah's flood) Everything died except for the vegetation, and all the trees all came back to life on there own. God did not have replant the seeds for them to come back. But in Gen 1:2 everything perished as I have already told you before, that the word "perished" means to be completely destroyed as it says in 2 Peter 3:5 in which God had to bring forth new seed to bring the vegetation and the trees back because every thing was destroyed in that flood. You do believe there was a flood in Gen 1:2 don't you? The earth started out as dry land and then flooded, as I have already given you scripture proofing this in my last post.

2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

What about Psa 104:7 were you said that this flood was when God was separating the water from the dry land in Genesis?
How can water flow over mountains when they are formless? They can't! They first had to be formed first before they can be formless.

Psa 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
Psa 104:6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
Psa 104:7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.

This was not Noah's flood at all. Here is what happened to the waters in Noah's flood.......

Gen 8:1 But God remembered Noah and all the beasts and all the livestock that were with him in the ark. And God made a wind blow over the earth, and the waters subsided.
Gen 8:2 The fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,
Gen 8:3 and the waters receded from the earth continually. At the end of 150 days the waters had abated,

Do you see a difference between waters in Psa 104:7 rapidly fleeing away as apposed to waters s l o w l y receding after 150 days? They are not the same flood!
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Your making the assumption that there was something here before Adam, and thus based on that assumptions are confused.

No scripture tells us that anywhere.

The earth started full of water gen 1:1-2

Where is the scripture that says different?

Where dose the Hebrew word void mean without mountains? I gave 2 other places it was used that had mountains.

How is 150
Days not rapid considering the volume of water it would take to cover mountain tops of the whole earth? It took 6 months for the small flood in ky to recess outside of paudach , once the Ohio and Mississippi river disconnected. 150 Days for the whole earth to be not flooded is a miracle and the power of God.


Now answer my questions above with scripture and why void means no mountains when I gave 2 scripture that say different.
 
MichaelH said:
Your making the assumption that there was something here before Adam, and thus based on that assumptions are confused.

No scripture tells us that anywhere.

The earth started full of water gen 1:1-2

Where is the scripture that says different?

Where dose the Hebrew word void mean without mountains? I gave 2 other places it was used that had mountains.

How is 150
Days not rapid considering the volume of water it would take to cover mountain tops of the whole earth? It took 6 months for the small flood in ky to recess outside of paudach , once the Ohio and Mississippi river disconnected. 150 Days for the whole earth to be not flooded is a miracle and the power of God.


Now answer my questions above with scripture and why void means no mountains when I gave 2 scripture that say different.
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Here are the definitions of the words "without form, and void" according to my Hebrew dictionaries.

Chaos, Formless, empty, wasteland, confusion, desolation, desert, vain, vanity, a wilderness, destruction.

For something to be formless it would have to be unidentifiable, or unrecognizable In Psa 104:6 it says the waters stood above the mountains.
God is not a God of confusion neither does he create things in confusion, or in disorder, in fact it says were ever there is envy and strife (conflict) there is confusion and every evil work.
 
CCW95A said:
Here are the definitions of the words "without form, and void" according to my Hebrew dictionaries.

Chaos, Formless, empty, wasteland, confusion, desolation, desert, vain, vanity, a wilderness, destruction.

For something to be formless it would have to be unidentifiable, or unrecognizable In Psa 104:6 it says the waters stood above the mountains.
God is not a God of confusion neither does he create things in confusion, or in disorder, in fact it says were ever there is envy and strife (conflict) there is confusion and every evil work.
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Now you just said in another thread that even though God has foreknowledge, he goes to set them man on the planet, knowing it won't turn out well.

You can't have it both ways and without form can mean lots of things as I used the same word in other scriptures that had mountains.

You think God just said earth be, and a perfect earth showed up? Then when God has to remake the earth he lost the ability to go poof again, perfect earth?

We are born by the perfect word of God, but you believe we ourselves start out perfect?

Did not God say how he created the earth in 7 short days from a planet filled with water?

Where is your scripture there was a functioning earth before Adam?

Where is you scripture Peter was not saying the same thing about noahs food that all should perish?

Your scripture that Adam was told to guard the garden from Satan.

Your scripture that Satan fell before Adam.

God made a planet full of water and terraformed it. Full of water has no form and a wasteland as the Hebrew word is used in other scripture.

Now start answering the question.
You assume lots of things the scriptures never mention anywhere.
 
Without form and void in the original language is, "tohu" and "bohu"

Tohu:
From an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), that is, desert; figuratively a worthless thing; adverbially in vain: - confusion, chaos, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.

Bohu:
From an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, that is, (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin: - emptiness, void.

Now read Isaiah 45:18 (NLT)
For the Lord is God,
and he created the heavens and earth
and put everything in place.
He made the world to be lived in,
not to be a place of empty chaos.
“I am the Lord,” he says,
“and there is no other.

It says He did not create it "tohu", in vain, or to be chaotic, or an empty wilderness.
 
Euphemia said:
Without form and void in the original language is, "tohu" and "bohu"

Tohu:
From an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), that is, desert; figuratively a worthless thing; adverbially in vain: - confusion, chaos, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.

Bohu:
From an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, that is, (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin: - emptiness, void.

Now read Isaiah 45:18 (NLT)
For the Lord is God,
and he created the heavens and earth
and put everything in place.
He made the world to be lived in,
not to be a place of empty chaos.
“I am the Lord,” he says,
“and there is no other.

It says He did not create it "tohu", in vain, or to be chaotic, or an empty wilderness.
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Thank you for that. That is not the issue here. Did God form it once, then it got destroyed, so he formed it again.

In other words the poster said the gen account is gods second attempt to make a habitable earth.

So the question is not what God intended. The problem the poster is having is he thinks God had to do it twice.
 
MichaelH said:
Thank you for that. That is not the issue here. Did God form it once, then it got destroyed, so he formed it again.

In other words the poster said the gen account is gods second attempt to make a habitable earth.

So the question is not what God intended. The problem the poster is having is he thinks God had to do it twice.
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MichaelH, I have already showed you in Hebrews 11:2 "By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of God so that the things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

The things in which God made were NOT made out of things that are seen!!! God does not create new things from existing things. The earth that was without form and void is something that was SEEN. He recreates and renews, and restores but he does not create new things from matter that is already present. God uses a substance called faith, and once it is created that same Word sustains and keeps it together.

Show me where Lucifer who had a throne on this earth and ruled after Adam was created. Show me the time period where Lucifer caused the earth to tremble, and did shake Kingdoms. Show me the time frame in which Lucifer made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities there of. These are all past tense happening not future tense. Isa 14:12-17
When did Lucifer exalt his throne above the stars of God and above the clouds to over throw God's Kingdom. When and at what time did the darkness try to comprehend the light of God?
 
MichaelH said:
Thank you for that. That is not the issue here. Did God form it once, then it got destroyed, so he formed it again.

In other words the poster said the gen account is gods second attempt to make a habitable earth.

So the question is not what God intended. The problem the poster is having is he thinks God had to do it twice.
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God never had to re-create, but the planet was already here, and it needed refreshing and His desire was to make it habitable.
 
Euphemia said:
God never had to re-create, but the planet was already here, and it needed refreshing and His desire was to make it habitable.
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Exactly.

The poster is rambling again. The Lord said be nice, Lord ... grant this guy some iQ.

He believes Isaiah 14 has come to pass already, Satan cast out of heaven twice and in he'll. I would take.the time to go over rev 12, 20. But I doubt he get it.

God calls though things that be not as though they are. According to the posters superior logic, Satan is in the pit, cast out of heaven twice, and Jesus was born at the time of David.

7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. (Already came to pass though you can't tell)

Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
 
The prophet Jeremiah was given a vision by God when the earth was without form, and void. We have a eyes witness account of Genesis 1:2

Jeremiah 4:23-26

I beheld the earth, and lo, it was without form and void, and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly
I beheld, and lo there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
I beheld and, lo the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.

You might ask were did all the people go that lived in these cities? The Prophet Jeremiah simply was describing what he saw in this vision. War in the spirit all ways brings destruction to the physical world. The earth at this time was in siege by Lucifer and his angels trying to ascend above the stars and clouds of God. The results of war brings about confusion, disorder, and causes the land to become a wilderness. The people who lived in these broken down cities were actually angels who had aligned them self with Lucifer. They left there own homes and abandoned there positions and ranks that God had given them.

Jude 1:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitations, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgement of the great day.

The word "estate" means "rank" it also means "chief" these angels abandoned their ranks and left their commander in "chief" who was God to follow Lucifer to over throw the Kingdom of light. Not only did these angels leave their ranks which God had given them, they also left their homes. The word "habitations" means homes!!!! Yes angels have homes. This is why these cities were empty, every one went to wage war on God.

If Lucifer had a throne and he did then he must have ruled over someone. He ruled over other angels on this earth that was before Adam was created and given authority on the earth that is now.
 
The prophet Jeremiah was given a vision by God when the earth was without form, and void. We have a eyes witness account of Genesis 1:2

Jeremiah 4:23-26

I beheld the earth, and lo, it was without form and void, and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly
I beheld, and lo there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
I beheld and, lo the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.

You might ask were did all the people go that lived in these cities? The Prophet Jeremiah simply was describing what he saw in this vision. War in the spirit all ways brings destruction to the physical world. The earth at this time was in siege by Lucifer and his angels trying to ascend above the stars and clouds of God. The results of war brings about confusion, disorder, and causes the land to become a wilderness. The people who lived in these broken down cities were actually angels who had aligned them self with Lucifer. They left there own homes and abandoned there positions and ranks that God had given them.

Jude 1:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitations, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgement of the great day.

The word "estate" means "rank" it also means "chief" these angels abandoned their ranks and left their commander in "chief" who was God to follow Lucifer to over throw the Kingdom of light. Not only did these angels leave their ranks which God had given them, they also left their homes. The word "habitations" means homes!!!! Yes angels have homes. This is why these cities were empty, every one went to wage war on God.
 
CCW95A said:
The prophet Jeremiah was given a vision by God when the earth was without form, and void. We have a eyes witness account of Genesis 1:2

Jeremiah 4:23-26

I beheld the earth, and lo, it was without form and void, and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly
I beheld, and lo there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
I beheld and, lo the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.

You might ask were did all the people go that lived in these cities? The Prophet Jeremiah simply was describing what he saw in this vision. War in the spirit all ways brings destruction to the physical world. The earth at this time was in siege by Lucifer and his angels trying to ascend above the stars and clouds of God. The results of war brings about confusion, disorder, and causes the land to become a wilderness. The people who lived in these broken down cities were actually angels who had aligned them self with Lucifer. They left there own homes and abandoned there positions and ranks that God had given them.

Jude 1:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitations, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgement of the great day.

The word "estate" means "rank" it also means "chief" these angels abandoned their ranks and left their commander in "chief" who was God to follow Lucifer to over throw the Kingdom of light. Not only did these angels leave their ranks which God had given them, they also left their homes. The word "habitations" means homes!!!! Yes angels have homes. This is why these cities were empty, every one went to wage war on God.
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I am done. I have given you scripture at every turn. Now you have a theory about angelic cities that have zero scripture support. The angels left their first estate? What was that?

Jer
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

The mountains you claimed that where under water.

25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

I thought you said angels... it said man. Holy spirit must have goofed in the wording.

26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

Cities man...I meant angels built no doubt.

28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it,I have purposed it,and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

Wait. God said let there be ligt. He must have gotten confused and changed his mind.

I would compare jer with the right scriptures for you if I felt it would do any good..

Angelic cities on earth....... amazing...

Just amazing.

I suppose we might even be angels..
Ya heard that nonsense also connected with this nonsense.
 
Euphemia said:
God never had to re-create, but the planet was already here, and it needed refreshing and His desire was to make it habitable.
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As in your buying into this past angelic city doctrine? God terraformed the planet one time...... That was it, right.
 
MichaelH said:
I am done. I have given you scripture at every turn. Now you have a theory about angelic cities that have zero scripture support. The angels left their first estate? What was that?

Jer
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

The mountains you claimed that where under water.

25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

I thought you said angels... it said man. Holy spirit must have goofed in the wording.

26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

Cities man...I meant angels built no doubt.

28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it,I have purposed it,and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

Wait. God said let there be ligt. He must have gotten confused and changed his mind.

I would compare jer with the right scriptures for you if I felt it would do any good..

Angelic cities on earth....... amazing...

Just amazing.

I suppose we might even be angels..
Ya heard that nonsense also connected with this nonsense.
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MichaelH, The prophet Jeremiah simply said he did not see anyone there. He used the word man because seeing a broken down city with no one there it would be logical to assume it was man who lived there. If the Bible says that angels left their ranks and abandoned there homes, but you say there is no such a thing who are we to believe the Word of God or you?
Did Lucifer rule and have a throne? He sure did, and he ruled over other beings. There would no reason to have a throne and not rule someone.
Maybe these are things you have never heard before, so you discount them as truth because it does not make any logical sense. It is not suppose to make sense, because it is by faith we understand the worlds were framed by the Word of God, not logical mental gymnastics, or reason that is apart of the natural man that is incapable to receive the things of the Spirit because they foolishness to him neither can he know them because they are spiritually understood.
I am about as dumb as a pile of rocks, I could not figure this stuff out on my own even if my life was dependent on it. The Holy Spirit teaches and all we are required to do is believe what he teaches. We are not smart, but he is.
 
CCW95A said:
MichaelH, The prophet Jeremiah simply said he did not see anyone there. He used the word man because seeing a broken down city with no one there it would be logical to assume it was man who lived there. If the Bible says that angels left their ranks and abandoned there homes, but you say there is no such a thing who are we to believe the Word of God or you?
Did Lucifer rule and have a throne? He sure did, and he ruled over other beings. There would no reason to have a throne and not rule someone.
Maybe these are things you have never heard before, so you discount them as truth because it does not make any logical sense. It is not suppose to make sense, because it is by faith we understand the worlds were framed by the Word of God, not logical mental gymnastics, or reason that is apart of the natural man that is incapable to receive the things of the Spirit because they foolishness to him neither can he know them because they are spiritually understood.
I am about as dumb as a pile of rocks, I could not figure this stuff out on my own even if my life was dependent on it. The Holy Spirit teaches and all we are required to do is believe what he teaches. We are not smart, but he is.
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Faith comes by hearing the word..........

I asked for scriptures, you run on about something else.

Jude just says they left their first Estate.............. You get into lots of assumption at this point, none backed by one scripture.

The Word Estate means rank, or position (Not a building, or place)........ Habitation means just that, a place where they once were.

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
(Rev 12:7-9)

There is absolutely no reason to believe that the Rank they left was that of serving the Lord, and the habbitation they left was with God in Heaven.

There is no other scripture, denoting anything but that. This took place when Salvation and the Kingdom of God came. Long after the Earth was created.

No scripture denoting Satans fall before Adam.

No proof that God speaking to Noah about the destruction of all living things and What Peter said are not the same thing as they said the same thing.

I asked for scripture to prove this and you run on about something else.

I asked for scripture to prove another time Satan fell, and you give me ISA 14, which places Satan in hell and earth in peace. A whole lot is wrong with placing that scripture in the past, but I can match it perfectly with what is to come.


You mention Jer 4...... Angelic city's, though no angels even mentioned in Jer 4................. You just make stuff up and that concerns me. I did point out it mentioning man though............ Not angelic cities.

Your failing horribly in trying to prove anything, and I have done nothing but give scriptures to prove exactly what I am telling you and not adding anything to any scripture like you do.

There is nothing more to do.......... You add things........... God told Adam to Guard the Garden from Satan............... Never mentioned one time. Angelic cities....... never mentioned............... Peter Talking about a earth that was before Gen 1:1......... Never mentioned anywhere.

I ask for scriptures and you don't give me scriptures, you just run on about something else.

Just a simple scripture where Satan blew it before the Garden with Adam, and you can't even do that.......

Then you tell me I just need faith to believe this.............. yea, the Mormon Church was started that way. Got it.
 
MichaelH said:
Faith comes by hearing the word..........

I asked for scriptures, you run on about something else.

Jude just says they left their first Estate.............. You get into lots of assumption at this point, none backed by one scripture.

The Word Estate means rank, or position (Not a building, or place)........ Habitation means just that, a place where they once were.

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
(Rev 12:7-9)

There is absolutely no reason to believe that the Rank they left was that of serving the Lord, and the habbitation they left was with God in Heaven.

There is no other scripture, denoting anything but that. This took place when Salvation and the Kingdom of God came. Long after the Earth was created.

No scripture denoting Satans fall before Adam.

No proof that God speaking to Noah about the destruction of all living things and What Peter said are not the same thing as they said the same thing.

I asked for scripture to prove this and you run on about something else.

I asked for scripture to prove another time Satan fell, and you give me ISA 14, which places Satan in hell and earth in peace. A whole lot is wrong with placing that scripture in the past, but I can match it perfectly with what is to come.


You mention Jer 4...... Angelic city's, though no angels even mentioned in Jer 4................. You just make stuff up and that concerns me. I did point out it mentioning man though............ Not angelic cities.

Your failing horribly in trying to prove anything, and I have done nothing but give scriptures to prove exactly what I am telling you and not adding anything to any scripture like you do.

There is nothing more to do.......... You add things........... God told Adam to Guard the Garden from Satan............... Never mentioned one time. Angelic cities....... never mentioned............... Peter Talking about a earth that was before Gen 1:1......... Never mentioned anywhere.

I ask for scriptures and you don't give me scriptures, you just run on about something else.

Just a simple scripture where Satan blew it before the Garden with Adam, and you can't even do that.......


Then you tell me I just need faith to believe this.............. yea, the Mormon Church was started that way. Got it.
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MichaelH, You can believe anything you want. I knew from the outset you were not going to get anything I would say. There are a lot of other people who read these posts that are not participating in its topic either as guests or members so it was to them I was writing to not you. You just happened to be the opening. I told you from the beginning this was controversial in the Church today and I was willing to discuss it in another thread but you pursued it here. I have no problems with believing what I have presented here. It is not controversial to me at all and I see it as truth, and rejoice in it.
 
CCW95A said:
MichaelH, You can believe anything you want. I knew from the outset you were not going to get anything I would say. There are a lot of other people who read these posts that are not participating in its topic either as guests or members so it was to them I was writing to not you. You just happened to be the opening. I told you from the beginning this was controversial in the Church today and I was willing to discuss it in another thread but you pursued it here. I have no problems with believing what I have presented here. It is not controversial to me at all and I see it as truth, and rejoice in it.
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I hope you go back to your original line of thought CCw .. which I believe has real effect in the truth. Our brother Mike likes to debate and will debate the smallest manner to the point of insult..:(
 
Mitspa said:
I hope you go back to your original line of thought CCw .. which I believe has real effect in the truth. Our brother Mike likes to debate and will debate the smallest manner to the point of insult..:(
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Thinking there was two floods an angelic kingdoms. (Angels are servants and spirits who have no need of their own cities)

Thinking that Satan fell before Adam and zero scripture to support that. Is not exactly a small thing. I have been kind, going over and over with connecting scripture and asking over and over for proof of these imaginations. I gave my time and effort into this.

Now...... you ought to know that I can be reasoned with if you have scripture.

His post leads into this doctrine, because Adam did not protect the garden. I know this doctrine, and we where heading into make believe land anyway.
 
MichaelH said:
Thinking there was two floods an angelic kingdoms. (Angels are servants and spirits who have no need of their own cities)

Thinking that Satan fell before Adam and zero scripture to support that. Is not exactly a small thing. I have been kind, going over and over with connecting scripture and asking over and over for proof of these imaginations. I gave my time and effort into this.

Now...... you ought to know that I can be reasoned with if you have scripture.

His post leads into this doctrine, because Adam did not protect the garden. I know this doctrine, and we where heading into make believe land anyway.
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No Mike you don't always hear folks out, I have read many of these post and I know the scriptures. This is a very gray area of truth and a doctrine that promotes OUR responsibility in protecting what God has put under our authority is about as much in agreement with traditional WOF teaching as one can get!.. So I don't see any evidence that a false or destructive doctrine is being attempted here? I say hear the brother out and you might add to your WOF tradition and strengthen what you already believe to be true.
 
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