Adultery

[Huntingteckel]

Until proven? What if the person admitted it but wasn't physically caught? They could later say they never admitted it.

Also, remarriage is allowed if there was adultery or abandonment. The Bible is clear on this. You can't make up biblical rules because you got upset about a different thread.

Then I suppose that person is out of luck. Doesn't the Bible say two or more witnesses?

Yes but many members of the church get divorces and they aren't over adultery. Divorce is just something people do now and people in the church don't seem to care that much. No one is telling them they can't remarry. No one has sermons about it or starts threads about it almost weekly. No one cares about this sin very much.

I didn't make up any biblical rules, but I will say I'm upset at Christians for making such a huge deal out of one sin and never even mentioning others. I mean, we have people having sex and going to clubs every weekend but that obviously isn't as big a deal as freaking gay people getting married (which most states still don't allow).

One reason I don't attend church is that I never want to hear nor would it be scriptural for a clergyman to tell me to divorce my wife because she is a non-believer or judge me for not constantly witnessing to her. This is something stupid that I just have to get over, but still a concern nonetheless.

There is so much hypocrisy in church that I honestly can't even tolerate stepping foot in one. I hate it but the gossip is so bad in most churches (which is another issue no one seems to care about) that it makes me want to strangle people.
I'm sure you know these verses but I just found them so I'll post them anyway! It's interesting how you read verses so many times and then one day they just pop out of the page.

1Co 7:13-15 ESV
(13) If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him.
(14) For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
(15) But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace.

 

[Huntingteckel]

Surprise, surprise ! The responses you received for this thread is so incredibly underwhelming, it actually make me want to cry!

Yeah. I don't think anyone really cares. I feel this is one of the most serious issues in Christianity today, and it's growing because people won't talk about it and point it out. We're too busy discussing the same points about homosexuality over and over.

 

[Huntingteckel]

what is also so unique about this type of sin is that it is a sin that most would never be guilty of, or even be tempted, and for those who don't have loved ones ( people they truly care about) who struggles with this type of sin, gays are easy target.

in another word, one can be as harsh and judgemental as they want, the consequences would never come back to them.

Very true. It completely changes you when you have a friend or family that comes out. It isn't that your beliefs change but you definitely become more soft hearted towards the people that have to endure it.

 

[Euphemia]

Then I suppose that person is out of luck. Doesn't the Bible say two or more witnesses?

Yes but many members of the church get divorces and they aren't over adultery. Divorce is just something people do now and people in the church don't seem to care that much. No one is telling them they can't remarry. No one has sermons about it or starts threads about it almost weekly. No one cares about this sin very much.

I didn't make up any biblical rules, but I will say I'm upset at Christians for making such a huge deal out of one sin and never even mentioning others. I mean, we have people having sex and going to clubs every weekend but that obviously isn't as big a deal as freaking gay people getting married (which most states still don't allow).

Christians can marry, even if they have been married before. Have you never heard of God's forgiveness and restoration?

What is the huge deal people make about homosexuality? Seems to me it is the agenda that is afoot that is making the huge deal. It is their sin du jour. Next we will have any number of flagrant sins to fend off as being promoted as normal, such as polyamory, and polygamy (as glorified on TV). As each onslaught comes, we will fend it off and present God's word against it. Right now it is homosexuality and same sex marriage that is making the most headlines. Either way, it is all the same sin: fornication---isn't it?

As for fornicating and going to clubs---if they are church people, they are immature spiritually or not saved at all. Churches do have some play actors. Good churches with faithful and able leadership handle these issues well. Warnings and then removing them from the church are all biblically endorsed methods of dealing with such folk.

So, we Christians are not making any such big deal as you suggest, but are standing our ground against the Satanic onslaught against righteous living. Will you don your spiritual armour and join the fray?

There is so much hypocrisy in church that I honestly can't even tolerate stepping foot in one. I hate it but the gossip is so bad in most churches (which is another issue no one seems to care about) that it makes me want to strangle people.

Hypocrisy is in the world, too. Are you going to step out of that? Jesus calls you to take part n the assembly regularly and His command is to not forsake it. Criticizing and judging churches is not good. I don't think you have been to most churches, have you?

If you cannot tolerate being with people who are spiritually your family and you are fighting urges to strangle people, then I am concerned for your spiritual well-being. Where do you receive good teaching, encouragement, training in ministry, correction, and fellowship? If you are denying yourself these things that God is eager to provide you for spiritual growth, then how do you consider you will grow straight and tall and strong in the Truth?

I pray that the Lord reveals to you that you need to allow Him to provide these necessities. Ask Him to point you in the direction of a great house of worship that pleases Him, and go there and make it your spiritual family.

I'm sure you know these verses but I just found them so I'll post them anyway! It's interesting how you read verses so many times and then one day they just pop out of the page.

1Co 7:13-15 ESV
(13) If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him.
(14) For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
(15) But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace.

These are precious verses concerning the Christian who comes to Christ while the spouse does not, and speaks of how God blesses the union and household, rather than just the one believing spouse.

 

[Huntingteckel]

1. Christians can marry, even if they have been married before. Have you never heard of God's forgiveness and restoration?

What is the huge deal people make about homosexuality? Seems to me it is the agenda that is afoot that is making the huge deal. It is their sin du jour. Next we will have any number of flagrant sins to fend off as being promoted as normal, such as polyamory, and polygamy (as glorified on TV). As each onslaught comes, we will fend it off and present God's word against it. Right now it is homosexuality and same sex marriage that is making the most headlines. Either way, it is all the same sin: fornication---isn't it?

As for fornicating and going to clubs---if they are church people, they are immature spiritually or not saved at all. Churches do have some play actors. Good churches with faithful and able leadership handle these issues well. Warnings and then removing them from the church are all biblically endorsed methods of dealing with such folk.

So, we Christians are not making any such big deal as you suggest, but are standing our ground against the Satanic onslaught against righteous living. Will you don your spiritual armour and join the fray?


2. Hypocrisy is in the world, too. Are you going to step out of that? Jesus calls you to take part n the assembly regularly and His command is to not forsake it. Criticizing and judging churches is not good. I don't think you have been to most churches, have you?

If you cannot tolerate being with people who are spiritually your family and you are fighting urges to strangle people, then I am concerned for your spiritual well-being. Where do you receive good teaching, encouragement, training in ministry, correction, and fellowship? If you are denying yourself these things that God is eager to provide you for spiritual growth, then how do you consider you will grow straight and tall and strong in the Truth?

I pray that the Lord reveals to you that you need to allow Him to provide these necessities. Ask Him to point you in the direction of a great house of worship that pleases Him, and go there and make it your spiritual family.



3. These are precious verses concerning the Christian who comes to Christ while the spouse does not, and speaks of how God blesses the union and household, rather than just the one believing spouse.

I numbers your post since you quoted me multiple times. Hope you don't mind. I don't know how to do the multiquote without copying and pasting.


1. I have, but I don't see how intentionally violating commandments is wise.

It is the same as fornication, which is the reason I don't understand why it is talked about more often than almost every other sin.

I don't see a point. Things will just continue to get worse. I will speak my mind about it and vote accordingly, but I don't see a point in demonizing a group of people just because they practice/ have tendencies that I do not.

2. I don't like being around people. I don't like them, and that is the reason that my "friends" only talk to me once every few months. I've never liked being around people. I read my Bible. A lot. I don't want fellowship and feel it causes me more stress than it's worth. I enjoy the forums because I can walk away from it and still have a small amount of a social life. I do listen to sermons online, though.


3. I know. I was just posting them because I found it interesting. I've read it before but never though about it.

 

[Euphemia]

I numbers your post since you quoted me multiple times. Hope you don't mind. I don't know how to do the multiquote without copying and pasting.


1. I have, but I don't see how intentionally violating commandments is wise.

With regard to adultery and the failure of a marriage, it is all sin, and all sin is intentional, and we are all guilty of violating the law. What is good news is that in Christ we have forgiveness and restoration. Justification is the state where it is just as if we have never committed a sin. God is all about restoring a person and blessing their socks off, and launching them into their own personal ministry to the world. If that means blessing them with a loving spouse and children, then so be it. He is a family kind of God!

It is the same as fornication, which is the reason I don't understand why it is talked about more often than almost every other sin.

I don't see a point. Things will just continue to get worse. I will speak my mind about it and vote accordingly, but I don't see a point in demonizing a group of people just because they practice/ have tendencies that I do not.

This isn't about demonizing anyone although I personally believe that homosexuality is more than likely a demonically induced condition for many people.

2. I don't like being around people. I don't like them, and that is the reason that my "friends" only talk to me once every few months. I've never liked being around people. I read my Bible. A lot. I don't want fellowship and feel it causes me more stress than it's worth. I enjoy the forums because I can walk away from it and still have a small amount of a social life. I do listen to sermons online, though.

That is a spiritual problem that needs the Lord's help in resolving. We are commanded to go into the world and preach the gospel, and to be other-minded, expressing the love of Jesus Christ to others. Avoidance of people is not of God and needs correction and healing of some psychological sore spot. The enemy loves it when we allow these things to take hold. Don't make him happy!

 

[Huntingteckel]

With regard to adultery and the failure of a marriage, it is all sin, and all sin is intentional, and we are all guilty of violating the law. What is good news is that in Christ we have forgiveness and restoration. Justification is the state where it is just as if we have never committed a sin. God is all about restoring a person and blessing their socks off, and launching them into their own personal ministry to the world. If that means blessing them with a loving spouse and children, then so be it. He is a family kind of God!



This isn't about demonizing anyone although I personally believe that homosexuality is more than likely a demonically induced condition for many people.



That is a spiritual problem that needs the Lord's help in resolving. We are commanded to go into the world and preach the gospel, and to be other-minded, expressing the love of Jesus Christ to others. Avoidance of people is not of God and needs correction and healing of some psychological sore spot. The enemy loves it when we allow these things to take hold. Don't make him happy!

By that logic I don't see the point in avoiding sin. Getting married when you know you aren't supposed to is such a deliberate sin. It isn't like having a thought about a girl you're talking to jump into your head or telling a white lie because you're afraid of telling your wife she does actually look fat in that dress. I'm not saying that one is above the other, I'm just saying planning on lying seems a heck of a lot worse to me than doing it in the moment.

If that were true then people could be "cured" of it, and I don't think that's possible.

Some people are more social than others. I do love others, even if I don't like being around them. I'm more than willing to preach the gospel if the need arises. I just don't like being around people.

Even my adultery thread has turned into a homosexuality thread. Obsessive.

 

[Euphemia]

By that logic I don't see the point in avoiding sin. Getting married when you know you aren't supposed to is such a deliberate sin. It isn't like having a thought about a girl you're talking to jump into your head or telling a white lie because you're afraid of telling your wife she does actually look fat in that dress. I'm not saying that one is above the other, I'm just saying planning on lying seems a heck of a lot worse to me than doing it in the moment.

If that were true then people could be "cured" of it, and I don't think that's possible.

Some people are more social than others. I do love others, even if I don't like being around them. I'm more than willing to preach the gospel if the need arises. I just don't like being around people.

Even my adultery thread has turned into a homosexuality thread. Obsessive.

Are you saying people aren't freed from homosexuality? Well they ARE! There is nothing in this life that is too hard for Jesus to free us from!

You don't see the point in avoiding sin? We are to avoid sinning because we love God and want to be in fellowship with Him!

Getting married when God has wiped your slate clean and wants you to live a life that glorifies Him so that He brings two people together to live and glorify Him together is all good! Have you never heard of new beginnings? God is all about those!

People are to be social even when it is hard for them for whatever reason. Shyness is not a godly personality trait. Jesus didn't have it, and we don't need it. We are to conform to His character. There is no personality trait that should cause us to come short of what God calls us to do, which is to be sociable, affable, kind and loving to people....and to preach the gospel openly---not to be overly reserved and hermit-like. If that were so, heaven would be a painful place to live forever!

 

[Mitspa]

It looks like the only grounds for divorce is sexual immorality according to Matthew 19:9

I would say before the Lord that is a fair understanding..there is another condition given but folks seem to have enough excuses, so ill keep that to myself.

 

[Mitspa]

what is also so unique about this type of sin is that it is a sin that most would never be guilty of, or even be tempted, and for those who don't have loved ones ( people they truly care about) who struggles with this type of sin, gays are easy target.

in another word, one can be as harsh and judgemental as they want, the consequences would never come back to them.

So you guys want to try to make up a sin to justify more sin?

 

[Euphemia]

well, in Him, nothing is impossible.

but the point is, does God give everyone a miracle just because they ask for it?

No!

and the closure of Exodus just proved man made method or "forcing" God for a cure through prayer doesn't work.

Being free from sin is a miracle we all can experience for the asking!

Calvary's cross is the proof!

I find this statement particularly shocking!

we are all created differently

some of us are outgoing, others are not.

and God purpose for us are all different.

everyone has a different role within body of Christ.

not everyone is called into one particular ministry.

Can you imagine if everyone within body of Christ all want to be hands for example?

would that work do you think?

I don't know much about OP.

if his reluctant to engage with others socially has something to do his past experience, then he may need to ask God for healing.

I don't think being shy or not wanting around people all the time is wrong.

but one has to be carefully if that is affecting their lives aversely, or if it is resulted from hurts in the past.

Everyone is called to the same ministry of preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ to every creature. As Christians we are all called to the discipleship of Jesus Christ. If we are allowing ourselves to be hindered by shyness or by being averse to people, we are being disobedient to God through selfishness. Yes, we are all different, but Jesus wants to shine through every 'different' person He can!

If a person's behaviour is the result of past hurts, then they need to seek God's help in areas where they can be made whole and be able to function the way they were created to do so.

 

[Euphemia]

I have this horrible feeling we are about to go into twilight zone.

What Jesus done for us on the cross does not take away our sinful nature.

What He did allows us the access to the blood when we do slip

and the Holy Spirit helps to empower us to walk in His ways.

but our flesh is always there.

let put it this way

has Jesus removed your flesh so you can no longer be tempted by beautiful women?

no, I don't think so.

the only difference between you and gay men is you are tempted by women, they are tempted by blokes?

what is that really all different , I don't think so.

sure, I am sure God could help a gay person live the way he/she should, though no promise he/she wont slip

just like you cant promise you wont slip

how do I know this

if you must know, I am gay myself, but I also believe living my life in honour of Him

God did promise He will help us dealing with our flesh.

He never promised anything about changing of orientation.

you have no idea what you are talking about

so please stop.

Stop what? Speaking the truth?

Jesus changes everything! He did not create anyone with a nature that cannot conform to His image, that cannot deny the flesh, and subdue it and follow Jesus.

He offers every single one of us freedom from a life of sin. Do we still sin? Sure! That is because our new nature is at odds with the remnant of our old nature still with us.

Homosexuality is not something that people cannot conquer in Christ. Rolling over and accepting it as some kind of natural orientation is the acceptance of the lie of Satan that says it is. God has not made it impossible for anyone to abandon sin and to follow after Jesus Christ.

With the power of Holy Spirit living in the believer, there is no excuse under heaven he can use to continue to sin in the besetting way that homosexuality manifests.

Because of Christ, I do know what I am talking about. I don't really think you do, but keep your heart open to Jesus Christ and what He desires to do in and through you.

firstly, I think it is actually more important for Christians to witness Christ, before he/she start to talk about Christ

Many Christians are good at talking, but don't want to do the harder part, the walking.

How do you think that would affect non believers when they see that?

secondly, op is God's servant, I think you should let God handle this one, after all, op is His servant. and if you really want to help, maybe you could pray for him?

I walk the walk and talk the talk.

 

[Brother Paul]

Don't forget that all pre as well as extra marital fornication is considered and abomination!

 

[Euphemia]

which part of me saying " I believe living my life in honour of Him" you find confusing?

if so, I am happy to elaborate, but I would it is self explanatory.

So, what do you want me to stop?

Ok, I am going to assume the best , and that is you are being defensive and is unable to see what you just said not only contradict itself but it is also no scripture

because I am getting really angry now.

first you admit you still have your sinful nature, you still sin, because God did not promise to take away your sinful nature, but rather empower you through the Spirit so you can resist your flesh.

how is that different from what I have said?

or are you trying to say that for you , it is enough for you to try live in obedience of God through His Spirit's empowerment.

but for me, living in obedience of Him is not enough, but I have to have my orientation changed as well?

is homosexual orientation natural?

of course not.

but then again Scripture tells us since sin came into world, a lot not natural thing start to happen.

right now scientific community believe people are naturally disposed to this type of thing?

It could be genes, it could be hormonal level a fetus was exposed to, but one way or another, I know I didn't choose this.

Scripture never address the subject of homosexuality, what it did address was homosexual behaviours as a sin, that it!

yet it does stop people such as yourself to take it upon yourself to fill the gap.

anyway, orientation in itself is not a sin.

ability to be tempted without given in is not a sin, be the source of temptation someone of the same sex or opposite sex.

that part is indeed scriptural.

so you can bend scripture anyway you like to condemn like me.

that is just your personal opinion

and I certainly don't any obligation to pay attention to you.

Why are you getting angry? Why are you being defensive?

In Christ I have a new nature---His! My own sin nature is being put to death. It still rears itself, because I am still flesh and blood, and my flesh is at enmity with spirit---my new born again, perfect spirit that cannot sin, because God dwells there.

If you are a homosexual, you need deliverance of it, not acceptance of it.

I do not condemn you, and nether does Jesus, if you have actually experienced Him. he tells you to rise up and come away from sin, and He is right there to help you to abandon it. His will for you is to be an overcomer. To overcome it, you need to yield completely to Him, to surrender your all to Jesus, and let Him take it from you.

A person's growth in Christ will never go beyond the point at which he is disobedient. He will continue to march around that mountain over and over again until he finally yields control to Jesus Christ.

 

[Euphemia]

not playing word games with you here.

I have already pointed this out to you in my last post

"
first you admit you still have your sinful nature, you still sin, because God did not promise to take away your sinful nature, but rather empower you through the Spirit so you can resist your flesh.
how is that different from what I have said?
or are you trying to say that for you , it is enough for you to try live in obedience of God through His Spirit's empowerment.
but for me, living in obedience of Him is not enough, but I have to have my orientation changed as well?"

God did give me a new nature!

Ephesians 4:24
Put on your new nature, created to be like God—truly righteous and holy.

Colossians 3:10
Put on your new nature, and be renewed as you learn to know your Creator and become like him.

If you are a Christian and are free from homosexual behaviour, you are pandering to the flesh to continue to claim that your orientation is not now made whole.

 

[aha]

If you are a Christian and are free from homosexual behaviour, you are pandering to the flesh to continue to claim that your orientation is not now made whole.

claim same orientation....

is it the same as one is saying to himself/or to others: "am still a sinner"?

 

[aha]

I mean, if one adulterous guy who repent and never to do it again:

Is it correct for him to say: am an adulterous guy who are saved by grace?

Or other sins that can be filled in on the bold underlined…

 

[Huntingteckel]

Why are we so intent on discussing homosexuality on nearly every thread? People, we're talking about adultery here. Not questioning my relationship with Jesus, not discussing homosexuality, and not attacking other members.

Brother Paul brought up a good point as well. The youth groups in our churches are full of kids that think nothing of having sex. Some of them go to church only to find sex partners. I think this is the danger of going to church for social reasons rather than it's intended purpose. The day you want to do to church mainly because of your friends there is the day you should probably just stay home.

 

[aha]

where is the scripture says being tempted without giving in is a sin, be it by someone of the same sex or the opposite sex?

unless of course, you are just trying everything you can to give me a hard time because I refuse to bow down to your and the other guys personal opinion?

Opps, I did not expected that.... I thought that question of mine is to clarify and neutral....

It can be used to support your POV…as well as her POV

 

[Sweet Pea]

Then I suppose that person is out of luck. Doesn't the Bible say two or more witnesses?

Yes but many members of the church get divorces and they aren't over adultery. Divorce is just something people do now and people in the church don't seem to care that much. No one is telling them they can't remarry. No one has sermons about it or starts threads about it almost weekly. No one cares about this sin very much.

I didn't make up any biblical rules, but I will say I'm upset at Christians for making such a huge deal out of one sin and never even mentioning others. I mean, we have people having sex and going to clubs every weekend but that obviously isn't as big a deal as freaking gay people getting married (which most states still don't allow).




There is so much hypocrisy in church that I honestly can't even tolerate stepping foot in one. I hate it but the gossip is so bad in most churches (which is another issue no one seems to care about) that it makes me want to strangle people.
I'm sure you know these verses but I just found them so I'll post them anyway! It's interesting how you read verses so many times and then one day they just pop out of the page.

1Co 7:13-15 ESV
(13) If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him.
(14) For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
(15) But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace.

Honestly, you are being really offensive. I have never mistreated anyone for being gay... I just don't agree with gay marriage. So you come over here and start this thread. So, according to you, even though my ex-husband swore on his mother's life that he had sex with someone else and then came home to me, I wasn't allowed a divorce because no one else heard him admit this? Even though he abandoned and threatened to kill me and my son, I should have stayed married?

You are twisting the Bible because you are against Christians who don't agree with gay marriage. You need to stop preaching because you sure don't know what you are talking about. How rude and offensive.