Alcohol: Is it a sin or not?
- Thread starter Clueless
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That's a good scripture James, but it is one that a lot of people abuse. I'm not saying you've abused that scripture, but feel led to say this.
When we examine something, we are looking something over to see if there is any faults or defects present. In order to know if such a defect is present, we need to have some kind of a checklist.
If you are examining an automobile, you look over the tires, the brakes, check the fluids, check the body...etc...etc...for any defects. And if any defects are present, you fix them. I remember seeing a commercial(I think it was Midas) that had a 101 point checklist of things that they looked over when they inspected(or examined) a car.
The people inspecting the car did a whole lot more than just getting inside the car and say "OK, I got a good feeling about this car" or "I got a bad feeling about this car."
The point I'm trying to make is that when we examine ourselves, we should not use our "feelings" as our checklist. That's what the Bible is for. Ted Bundy was a cold-hearted killer and he felt no remorse for the terrible crimes he committed. So if he examined himself and used his own feelings as a checklist, then according to him he done nothing wrong. But if Ted examined himself and used the Bible for a checklist, then he'd realize that he was in a world of trouble and needed Jesus as his Saviour.
Again James, I wasn't coming down on you. But the Scripture you posted reminded me of this.
And Linda, thanks for that post. I'll be saving it.
Good points all Mr. Preacher, and duly noted. I didn't know there was anyother way to do it, but I guess people can get off on a tangent of "well, I don't feel guilty about it so it must be alright."
Seems as though there are two issues at play here. Alcohol and ourselves, and alcohol and other people. There are actually two things we have to deal with.
Seems as though there are two issues at play here. Alcohol and ourselves, and alcohol and other people. There are actually two things we have to deal with.
Hi, I am new here. Hello people! I guess an issue I have is the fact that 1 glass of wine, is actually beneficial to your health or not bad for it. However, a McDonald's cheeseburger is terrible for your health, so are french fries, alfredo sauce, cheese dip, pie, chips, and the list goes on and on.....we have made a double standard I believe. I am not even saying that I drink, but I have noticed throughout my travels to many churches in the United States and Europe, especially here in America, we tend to judge the man holding a bottle of beer or glass of wine, and not the man shoving a greasy cheeseburger in his mouth while dipping his fries in ranch dressing. Which do you feel is really more destructive to the temple we call our body?
More people die of heart disease and related illnesses than any other cause in America. We have preachers talking to their congregations about how any wine whatsoever is a sin, yet they themselves are 40 pounds overweight. Not saying anything is right or wrong here.....just bringing up this issue.
More people die of heart disease and related illnesses than any other cause in America. We have preachers talking to their congregations about how any wine whatsoever is a sin, yet they themselves are 40 pounds overweight. Not saying anything is right or wrong here.....just bringing up this issue.
Here comes the "smokescreen" of overeating. I know people who will justify smoking by using the "smokescreen" of overeating. My late husband used all sorts of "smokescreens" to justify his drinking--until the alcohol literally killed him. He even used "one drink can be beneficial to your health" reason. In another post in this thread, I gave the reasons why I believe the Word of God teaches total abstinence from alcohol.
As far as statistics about what causes more deaths, drinking, and the results of drinking, is right up there near the top of the list. My late husband is one of those statistics of death from alcohol.
Hi Linda
I am sorry for the loss of your husband. Whatever the reason, to loose one's husband is never easy.
As far as alcohol is concerned, with all due respect to everyone's belief, I think a lot of people are going to be surprised when they get to the Lamb's supper... This, however, is just my opinion, so I will say that we should look at Paul and the eating of the meat offered to idols. He ate it, but he didn't when people who thought eating it was a sin, were around him. And he was teaching his followers not to eat it in front of those particular people as well, lest they would cause someone to stumble. I believe the same applies to the drinking of wine. What does your heart tell you? What does God say to you ? I don't pretend to know the whole bible, but I'm not sure there is anything in there forbiding the drinking of wine to everyone! It does say, however, not to become drunk with wine. Big difference! If wine is used as a "pain killer", so to speak (reffering especially to emotional pain), if it is a comfort zone, an escape then it would be a sin to drink it under those circumstances. But it wouldn't be any bigger sin than say using TV or books or food or sweets or anything else at all in the same way. God must be our comfort and escape and if we replace Him with anything that't wrong. But I really don't think you can single out wine as being a sin, when there are Christians out there who won't touch a glass of wine but will judge, criticize, back bite, worry, etc., etc., and those things are clearly pointed out in the bible as being sins!
Again just my oppinion, that's all!
Laura
I am sorry for the loss of your husband. Whatever the reason, to loose one's husband is never easy.
As far as alcohol is concerned, with all due respect to everyone's belief, I think a lot of people are going to be surprised when they get to the Lamb's supper... This, however, is just my opinion, so I will say that we should look at Paul and the eating of the meat offered to idols. He ate it, but he didn't when people who thought eating it was a sin, were around him. And he was teaching his followers not to eat it in front of those particular people as well, lest they would cause someone to stumble. I believe the same applies to the drinking of wine. What does your heart tell you? What does God say to you ? I don't pretend to know the whole bible, but I'm not sure there is anything in there forbiding the drinking of wine to everyone! It does say, however, not to become drunk with wine. Big difference! If wine is used as a "pain killer", so to speak (reffering especially to emotional pain), if it is a comfort zone, an escape then it would be a sin to drink it under those circumstances. But it wouldn't be any bigger sin than say using TV or books or food or sweets or anything else at all in the same way. God must be our comfort and escape and if we replace Him with anything that't wrong. But I really don't think you can single out wine as being a sin, when there are Christians out there who won't touch a glass of wine but will judge, criticize, back bite, worry, etc., etc., and those things are clearly pointed out in the bible as being sins!
Again just my oppinion, that's all!
Laura
Linda,
Im very sorry for your loss. I know that is more than tough
I certainly did not say alcohol does not kill many lives. It is responsible for millions of deaths every year, as is diet. Diet as well as alcohol leads to many things, like cancer, heart disease, blood pressure, and much more. I personally do not use over eating as a "smokescreen" to justify drinking. But, you did not answer the question which is why do we not ever focus on overeating as a sin, but we do focus on having a glass of wine as a sin? Why does one feel bad about having a 4 oz glass of wine and not feel guilty about having a 1/2 pound cheeseburger that has been cooked in grease with fries on the side and maybe an ice cream or slice of pie afterward. I see it everyday, even in my church. I am only bringing up the point that this is certainly an issue and it is sin, and we (the church as a whole) do not recognize this enough. Alcohol, Tobacco, Sex, stress, worry, food....all of these things cause death, millions of deaths every year.
I know great Christian men, who have wine with a meal. Men of love, real love, who love everyone regardless of what they do or have done, like we should. Does this make them non-Christian? I also know great Christian men who are very overweight and love the same. Does this make them non-Christian?
Thanks much for your reply
Im very sorry for your loss. I know that is more than tough
I certainly did not say alcohol does not kill many lives. It is responsible for millions of deaths every year, as is diet. Diet as well as alcohol leads to many things, like cancer, heart disease, blood pressure, and much more. I personally do not use over eating as a "smokescreen" to justify drinking. But, you did not answer the question which is why do we not ever focus on overeating as a sin, but we do focus on having a glass of wine as a sin? Why does one feel bad about having a 4 oz glass of wine and not feel guilty about having a 1/2 pound cheeseburger that has been cooked in grease with fries on the side and maybe an ice cream or slice of pie afterward. I see it everyday, even in my church. I am only bringing up the point that this is certainly an issue and it is sin, and we (the church as a whole) do not recognize this enough. Alcohol, Tobacco, Sex, stress, worry, food....all of these things cause death, millions of deaths every year.
I know great Christian men, who have wine with a meal. Men of love, real love, who love everyone regardless of what they do or have done, like we should. Does this make them non-Christian? I also know great Christian men who are very overweight and love the same. Does this make them non-Christian?
Thanks much for your reply
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
I have lost several of my friends who drink to Cyrossis of the liver- what a waste- more people are killed every year buy drunk drivers than the total US war loss in Vietnam- while the bible does not outright prohibit drinking and does say do not get drunk it seems that all you have to do is look at the fruit of wrecked lives and families to know it does more harm than it could ever do good 
- oh and pass the cheeseburgers
- oh and pass the cheeseburgersI have lost several of my friends who drink to Cyrossis of the liver- what a waste- more people are killed every year buy drunk drivers than the total US war loss in Vietnam- while the bible does not outright prohibit drinking and does say do not get drunk it seems that all you have to do is look at the fruit of wrecked lives and families to know it does more harm than it could ever do good
I suppose I will reiterate myself once more by saying I am well aware and not denying the fact that alcohol creates millions of problems as well as deaths. But, their is no denying the fact that obesity and poor diet habits in our country is just as signigicant. I have lost my grandfather, uncle, aunt, a good friend, and musician friend to diet related diseases i.e. heart disease, heart attack, cancer, stroke. My guess is most people knows more people who die from these type of diseases than alcohol. Again, alcohol wrecks MANY MANY lives and I am not justifying it. I am simply stating, there is a problem when we consider a 4 oz glass of Cabernet a sin and not a loaded chick covered in cheese butter, and honey mustard, or a greasy plate of French fries with Spicy ranch. I have waited tables so I know what people order, haha.
Anyway, this is a problem that is effecting our children as well. Child obescity is higher than ever. 3rd grade kids weighing 160 pounds. Its looked at way to lightly here. Again, I just dont see how having a glass of wine is wrong, but this isn't.
Here's the link to the post where I shared why I believe that God's Word teaches total abstinence from alcohol.
http://www.christianforumsite.com/showpost.php?p=10962&postcount=40
I'm not forcing anyone to believe what I believe--you need to study it out for yourselves. All I can say is this: When I see a person, who professes to know Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, drinking alcohol, it is a big turn off, and bad witness (to me personally).
The verse in Ephesians 5, where it says "Be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess" doesn't mean that you can drink, just as long as you don't get drunk--the excess is in the drinking itself. There are some who can get drunk on one drink. Why take the chance?
http://www.christianforumsite.com/showpost.php?p=10962&postcount=40
I'm not forcing anyone to believe what I believe--you need to study it out for yourselves. All I can say is this: When I see a person, who professes to know Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, drinking alcohol, it is a big turn off, and bad witness (to me personally).
The verse in Ephesians 5, where it says "Be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess" doesn't mean that you can drink, just as long as you don't get drunk--the excess is in the drinking itself. There are some who can get drunk on one drink. Why take the chance?
I completely respect your opinion and I certainly have my own and my interpretations of what is being said in all these passages.
Do you however recognize my point that its a double standard for some people to say 4 oz of wine is a sin and not a cheese drizzled burger with bacon?
I recognize your point as a double standard, but I disagree with you. What I see are people who use "gluttony" as a sin (and it is a sin) to justify drinking alcohol. I have been on many of these forum boards and this topic ALWAYS comes up in the threads "Should A Christian Drink Alcohol", etc. To me, sin is sin and one sin does not justify another sin. My final authority is God's Word--if something I do will not glorify God, then I don't do it.
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. (1 Corinthians 6:20)
Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. (1 Corinthians 10:31)
It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. (Romans 14:21)
This verse doesn't add "only when I am in the company of my weaker brother/sister"--it means don't do those things at anytime. You don't know who else you might be offending or causing to stumble in their faith.
I also do not do what I feel will cause other to stumble Linda. Again, you did not pay attention to what I said. I am not saying drinking wine is not a sin. I am not certain that it is, but I am not saying that it is not. I am saying somewhere along the way, we decided to let that offend us and not overeating and eating terribly which from the scripture quotes above is a sin. I never once said its okay to justify drinking a glass of wine by eating bad, not at all, but the fact that you and many more get offended by wine and not unhealthy eathing is because of our culture and what has been taught. Why doesn't eating pie or french fries offend us as Christians, its clearly bad for the body, or eathing bacon or sausage. Why?
I will be perfectly honest with you, I get more offended by seeing an obese person gourging himself than I do by a good man having a glass of wine. I am not for the abuse of either. Both kill people when abused. I am not even saying drinking is not a sin, but again.....Why are we offended by wine and not glutony? You say glutony is a sin, but do you really get offended when you see an overweight person eating terribly?....clearly wine offends you. Thanks for all your responses. I do appreciate the chatting.
Have a beautiful night
I agree, and true....I have turned it in to a food discussion, so my apologies for that. I agree anything that defiles your body is a sin. I got into food, because I brought up the point that our culture gets offended over alcohol and not food because of what they have been taught. If they got offended over what was sin, then we would also get offended by food. Anyway, the it is an alcohol question, perhaps I should start a new thread. haha
Cheers
Hi again Linda.
I really think this is one discution that could go on forever and bring as many oppinions as there are people who are debating it. However, I will say this: The verse you quoted stated that you should not eat flesh nor drink wine nor any thing! If I were to take that literally, I would get out of it that I should also be a vegetarian along with not drinking wine, and I don't believe that is what this is saying. You're right, it is not adding "only when we are in the company of a weaker brother or sister", however the word "whereby" implicates that and, as I said about Paul and the meat offered to the idles, as long as the Lord has not specifically told you not to ever touch certain things, don't eat or drink them when you are around those who may stumble because of their OWN beliefs or level of maturity. This, of course, it is just my oppinion.
Laura
I very much agree with you Gary. Let's also read our Bibles and find out what the Lord's will is.
Let me expand on this topic a little bit.
Here's an interesting fact: Did "you" know that the fermentation process of grapes to become wine takes only 3 days? That means: They had to drink alcohol if they wanted to drink from the fruit of the vine (Mat. 26,29; Mark 14,25; Luke 22,18) during the year (breaking of bread). At that time they didn't have the technics that we have to avoid the fermentation process.
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
I just wanted to say that I love and respect each one of you here- we all have different opinions on this subject - but if possible I would like to reccomend the following:
1. Keep it friendly- a small disagreement between brethren is not worth hurt feelings- Jesus calls us "to Love ye one another"
2. Try to stick generally close to the subject matter - in this case alcohol
3. There are some things worth fighting for- but if it is not a salvation issue then it is not- rest assured God will in His own time work out doctrinal differences-
Thank You For Your Time Brothers and Sisters- in His Name and His Love- Larry
1. Keep it friendly- a small disagreement between brethren is not worth hurt feelings- Jesus calls us "to Love ye one another"
2. Try to stick generally close to the subject matter - in this case alcohol
3. There are some things worth fighting for- but if it is not a salvation issue then it is not- rest assured God will in His own time work out doctrinal differences-
Thank You For Your Time Brothers and Sisters- in His Name and His Love- Larry
No apologies necessary.
You've been very respectful.
hmmm
hmm, I know for myself when I first became a Christian alcohol was something that I didn't really want to give up and I still like to have the occasional drink, but honestly I do believe God has been working on me to quit and give it up.
I don't think it is a sin, but I do think it all depends on what type of Christian you want to be. I know when I was first saved I confessed it to all of my non-christian friends at the time. While I was telling them I was slamming a bud light and when they heard it they gave me the cocked-head-puppy-dog-look of confusion. At the time I didn't think much of it until a couple weeks later a friend of mine came over and said "You know, you tell me that you are different from us now, yet you still drink."
So I have at least quit drinking in public and if God convicts me to get rid of it completely than I will.
Just my take on it, but I am still a new Christian so I may speak with ignorance.
hmm, I know for myself when I first became a Christian alcohol was something that I didn't really want to give up and I still like to have the occasional drink, but honestly I do believe God has been working on me to quit and give it up.
I don't think it is a sin, but I do think it all depends on what type of Christian you want to be. I know when I was first saved I confessed it to all of my non-christian friends at the time. While I was telling them I was slamming a bud light and when they heard it they gave me the cocked-head-puppy-dog-look of confusion. At the time I didn't think much of it until a couple weeks later a friend of mine came over and said "You know, you tell me that you are different from us now, yet you still drink."
So I have at least quit drinking in public and if God convicts me to get rid of it completely than I will.
Just my take on it, but I am still a new Christian so I may speak with ignorance.