I like this analogy..this world is like a sinking ship, all we can do is rescue those willing to be saved. Back to the same sex topic, I had a problem with this too BC I didn't hate the sin of homosexuality... well since ..someone really close to me is. But my pastor says we're to love the sinner but hate the sin(what they do)
Am I Wrong??
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I like this analogy..this world is like a sinking ship, all we can do is rescue those willing to be saved. Back to the same sex topic, I had a problem with this too BC I didn't hate the sin of homosexuality... well since ..someone really close to me is. But my pastor says we're to love the sinner but hate the sin(what they do)
I think this is often a first-reaction to a case like this--and understandably. When we hear about someone close to us who might live a certain way, sometimes we feel it becomes subjective. I agree with your pastor. Absolutely always love everyone--people who love us, people who hate us, people who don't know us, saintly people, people in mortal sin, etc. etc. However, I think it's always important to be able to recognize when something is a sin.
It makes me think of cases when politicians (I can't remember which ones have done this, but it has been more than one), who at first claim homosexuality is wrong, and then a child of theirs comes out of the closet. Once that happens, the politicians say "Homosexuality isn't wrong." I think 1) it's good that their kids have come out in admitting they are gay--I think it's wrong to live a life of self reproach when it's not justified. However, it doesn't follow when someone says "My son/daughter/uncle/etc. is gay and they're good people, therefore homosexuality is a good thing."
Oh man, do I feel like that's a wrong statement. God wants EVERYONE saved and turned to toward the everlasting life.
I think back, wonder how many people thought I was not willing, and too far gone, to be saved... truth is no one is. Everyone is fair game.
Oh man, do I feel like that's a wrong statement. God wants EVERYONE saved and turned to toward the everlasting life.
I think back, wonder how many people thought I was not willing, and too far gone, to be saved... truth is no one is. Everyone is fair game.
Oh man, do I feel like that's a wrong statement. God wants EVERYONE saved and turned to toward the everlasting life.
I think back, wonder how many people thought I was not willing, and too far gone, to be saved... truth is no one is. Everyone is fair game.
Oh man, do I feel like that's a wrong statement. God wants EVERYONE saved and turned to toward the everlasting life.
I think back, wonder how many people thought I was not willing, and too far gone, to be saved... truth is no one is. Everyone is fair game.
Well ok then... it said server error and then posted it 4 times.
Well ok then... it said server error and then posted it 4 times.
J
Jutta H.
Guest
Perhaps because they do not really understand the Bible? To be able to understand ancient texts, one must take two rules to heart:
On the one hand, one shall look at the textual connection. Quoting not a couple of verses but reading the whole chapter, possibly more chapters.
And on the other hand also including the historical context. Why did an author say something? Which problems were there at that time? What did the author want to achieve with his statement?
Related to homosexuality gets clear, that the Bible never condemned homosexual love relations. Tell all statements only one from Leviticus and of Paul: They never looked as a sin but as result of the sin at homosexuality. And what was the sin? The people had left God, worshipped heathen gods; went in temples to prostitutes. Only an example: Paul uses the Greek word ARSENOKOITES in his letter to the Corinthians (it is written so in German). To this this statement:
Source: http://www.stjohnsmcc.org/new/BibleAbuse/Arsenokoites.php
Why was Jesus himself silent about it?
J
Jutta H.
Guest
If you want to see, what a loving Christian mother did for her gay son, and was his reaction was, have look at this movie, based on a true Story:
She had changed her mind.
She had changed her mind.
There are some fantastic answers on here, Brother Mike and Brother Gene to name a couple. Right on.
As far as adding anything here, I might just point out that hating a sin doesn't mean hating the person, for how could God hate the person when He says He loves everyone and proved it by going to the cross for us all? Rather, He hates the sin, not the sinner. But as was pointed out, the line betwixt fellowship and ministering is thin.
To illustrate, you cannot ever one time find an instance of Jesus going to meet with sinners to chill out - EVERY time He met with them He was preaching the Good News about the Blessing of Abraham and the Kingdom of God and how to enter the Kingdom of Heaven (in case someone does not know: KOG is God's methods/ways of having/getting/doing etc and KOH is a physical place where God lives). If they didn't want to receive Him as sent to them by God to bless them with the Truth, He moved on.
Too many Christians have the mistaken notion that you should bow to and become like the world when the whole reason anyone went to see Jesus was to hear what He was preaching and get healed or fed. It was His feeding them the Truth that attracted them to Him, and yet, notice that no matter how anointed the message is, there will still be people who HATE it and reject it; Jesus' first public sermon and most of the town wanted to chuck Him off a cliff! Yet, He was preaching exactly the Truth.
It's kind of like how many Believers, through the devil infiltrating the Church, think to turn the other cheek means to accept physical violence, when in fact in the original Hebrew (referring to Lamentations 3 and then the Greek where He's talking about it) is about accepting VERBAL insults, and then only when you're preaching. Has nothing to do with getting beat up and stomped on (God doesn't benefit from that, only the devil does). Notice that Jesus did not let ANYONE lay a hand on Him at any time except when it was the hour of Him laying down His life (notice He said NO man takes His life, but rather HE lays it down when HE chooses) as the Lamb of God (not as the Son of God or SOn of Man at that time). Quite important to realize.
As far as adding anything here, I might just point out that hating a sin doesn't mean hating the person, for how could God hate the person when He says He loves everyone and proved it by going to the cross for us all? Rather, He hates the sin, not the sinner. But as was pointed out, the line betwixt fellowship and ministering is thin.
To illustrate, you cannot ever one time find an instance of Jesus going to meet with sinners to chill out - EVERY time He met with them He was preaching the Good News about the Blessing of Abraham and the Kingdom of God and how to enter the Kingdom of Heaven (in case someone does not know: KOG is God's methods/ways of having/getting/doing etc and KOH is a physical place where God lives). If they didn't want to receive Him as sent to them by God to bless them with the Truth, He moved on.
Too many Christians have the mistaken notion that you should bow to and become like the world when the whole reason anyone went to see Jesus was to hear what He was preaching and get healed or fed. It was His feeding them the Truth that attracted them to Him, and yet, notice that no matter how anointed the message is, there will still be people who HATE it and reject it; Jesus' first public sermon and most of the town wanted to chuck Him off a cliff! Yet, He was preaching exactly the Truth.
It's kind of like how many Believers, through the devil infiltrating the Church, think to turn the other cheek means to accept physical violence, when in fact in the original Hebrew (referring to Lamentations 3 and then the Greek where He's talking about it) is about accepting VERBAL insults, and then only when you're preaching. Has nothing to do with getting beat up and stomped on (God doesn't benefit from that, only the devil does). Notice that Jesus did not let ANYONE lay a hand on Him at any time except when it was the hour of Him laying down His life (notice He said NO man takes His life, but rather HE lays it down when HE chooses) as the Lamb of God (not as the Son of God or SOn of Man at that time). Quite important to realize.
Just my beliefs, and you can choose to disagree with me, but I don't think/believe that people that reject Gods' way will burn in hell for eternity. Rev.20:9 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Burned up, toast, gone. If anyone has a scripture reference that says otherwise, please feel free to share it.
Our souls will not be saved. It's our spirit that gets saved. Our soul with return to where it came from, the earth.
I believe that homosexuality generally stems from a repetitive cycle started by sexual abuse on a child. And I agree that we should Love those that partake in that lifestyle. Attempt to share understanding in Jesus gospel to them. Hate the sin and love the sinner.
If they don't choose Gods way, then we should be a good witness through our actions, and pray for them.
We should judge each other very carefully because how we judge others, will be how we will be judged. If we see someone sinning, with great love and tact, we should confront them, one on one. If they reject our concern to correct them, then we should try once again, with another believer that knows for sure that this person is sinning(two to one), and of course do so with love, concern, and tact.
This message was brought to you by the letters YHWH, and the number 7. (smile)
Burned up, toast, gone. If anyone has a scripture reference that says otherwise, please feel free to share it.
Our souls will not be saved. It's our spirit that gets saved. Our soul with return to where it came from, the earth.
I believe that homosexuality generally stems from a repetitive cycle started by sexual abuse on a child. And I agree that we should Love those that partake in that lifestyle. Attempt to share understanding in Jesus gospel to them. Hate the sin and love the sinner.
If they don't choose Gods way, then we should be a good witness through our actions, and pray for them.
We should judge each other very carefully because how we judge others, will be how we will be judged. If we see someone sinning, with great love and tact, we should confront them, one on one. If they reject our concern to correct them, then we should try once again, with another believer that knows for sure that this person is sinning(two to one), and of course do so with love, concern, and tact.
This message was brought to you by the letters YHWH, and the number 7. (smile)
Hey Dumpster, it is your body that would return to the Earth, not your soul. Your soul goes with your Spirit. You are a spirit with a soul (mind, will and emotions) that lives in a body. If we're here when He gathers us in the air, our bodies will not even do that, they will be transformed into the same body He already has. Hallelujah!
As for people in the Lake of Fire, which was made for the devil and his demons, they do not cease to exist - they will be tormented day and night there forever. Anyone else found there will be in the same straits.
As for people in the Lake of Fire, which was made for the devil and his demons, they do not cease to exist - they will be tormented day and night there forever. Anyone else found there will be in the same straits.
I could see where sexual abuse CAN lead to any number of things and would certainly affects a person's life long after the abuse ends, but it is a crazy wide generalization to say that homosexuality "generally" or usually stems from sexual abuse. I'm sure there are some people who became so confused by sex because of abuse as a child that they became homosexuals as teens or adults, but to say this is really common displays a lack of interaction with homosexuals.
I do like the idea behind "Hate the sin love the sinner", but I'll be honest. The majority of the times I've seen this is was done as a way to justify treating people horribly. We are to reject sin and not embrace it, and we are to love people. Which are we supposed to do first and above all things save loving God?
I do like the idea behind "Hate the sin love the sinner", but I'll be honest. The majority of the times I've seen this is was done as a way to justify treating people horribly. We are to reject sin and not embrace it, and we are to love people. Which are we supposed to do first and above all things save loving God?
People don't go to hell just because they are sinners. If that were the case, there would be no hope for anyone because everyone is a sinner. People go to hell because they want to hold on to their sin, and not turn from it.
Jesus died for us because He loves us (which means He finds us valuable). But He also died to save us from our sin, not just sin's consequences (Matthew 1:21, Revelation 1:5, Ephesians 5:25-27). He doesn't just forgive us so we can go to be with Him in heaven later, He gives us His Holy Spirit to enable us to live practically holy and righteous lives now on on earth. Salvation and the Holy Spirit always go together. If you don't have the Holy Spirit, then you're not saved (Romans 8:9). But if you have the Holy Spirit, you will not want to sin. (And if you walk in the Spirit, you will not give in to the flesh's desire - Galatians 5:16.)
How is sin defined? In our natural state, we have something wrong with our sense of right and wrong. We're not capable of defining sin. We have to let God define it because sin is against Him. And once we know what sin is, we can't reinterpret what He says to match our own beliefs. There is no practical difference between man defining what is good or bad in God's eyes, and man defining what is good or bad in his own eyes. We have to let God define these things and accept His definitions without making excuses.
If we allow ourselves to redefine sin, then we'll be living in the state of anarchy as in the days of the Judges when "everyone did what was right in his own eyes" (Judges 17:6, 21:25). We'll think God is OK with what we're doing because He hasn't stopped us yet or things are still going well with us. But God only allows us to continue in sin for two reasons: either to give us more rope to hang ourselves with (Romans 1:21-32-2:12), OR to give us time to repent (Romans 2:4).
You can be a Christian and be tempted with homosexual or lesbian desires (as you can be tempted in any area), but if you are truly born of the Spirit, you will find those desires more and more repugnant and wrong, and you will desire to be free of them.
Jesus died for us because He loves us (which means He finds us valuable). But He also died to save us from our sin, not just sin's consequences (Matthew 1:21, Revelation 1:5, Ephesians 5:25-27). He doesn't just forgive us so we can go to be with Him in heaven later, He gives us His Holy Spirit to enable us to live practically holy and righteous lives now on on earth. Salvation and the Holy Spirit always go together. If you don't have the Holy Spirit, then you're not saved (Romans 8:9). But if you have the Holy Spirit, you will not want to sin. (And if you walk in the Spirit, you will not give in to the flesh's desire - Galatians 5:16.)
How is sin defined? In our natural state, we have something wrong with our sense of right and wrong. We're not capable of defining sin. We have to let God define it because sin is against Him. And once we know what sin is, we can't reinterpret what He says to match our own beliefs. There is no practical difference between man defining what is good or bad in God's eyes, and man defining what is good or bad in his own eyes. We have to let God define these things and accept His definitions without making excuses.
If we allow ourselves to redefine sin, then we'll be living in the state of anarchy as in the days of the Judges when "everyone did what was right in his own eyes" (Judges 17:6, 21:25). We'll think God is OK with what we're doing because He hasn't stopped us yet or things are still going well with us. But God only allows us to continue in sin for two reasons: either to give us more rope to hang ourselves with (Romans 1:21-32-2:12), OR to give us time to repent (Romans 2:4).
You can be a Christian and be tempted with homosexual or lesbian desires (as you can be tempted in any area), but if you are truly born of the Spirit, you will find those desires more and more repugnant and wrong, and you will desire to be free of them.