Angel Or Jesus?

D

Dave Lucas

I the account of Daniel where Nebuchadnezzar sends the three young Jewish men to a furnace scripture says the king sees a fourth in with them.

I have heard recently someone espouse the idea it was Jesus. Yet using the Hebrew text it is an angel.

What say all of you?
 
Abdicate

Abdicate

The word for "angel" in both the Greek and Hebrew mean messanger... it can also mean the Pre-Incarnate Jesus. In fact, if you want a jolt to your theology, do a study on every verse that mentions "angel" or "men" and you'll be shocked... the one where John fell to worship him said he was a fellowservant like him... go back to see who he's talking to and it says "one of the seven angels"... amazing discovery... makes you wonder.
 
D

Dave Lucas

Abdicate said:
The word for "angel" in both the Greek and Hebrew mean messanger... it can also mean the Pre-Incarnate Jesus. In fact, if you want a jolt to your theology, do a study on every verse that mentions "angel" or "men" and you'll be shocked... the one where John fell to worship him said he was a fellowservant like him... go back to see who he's talking to and it says "one of the seven angels"... amazing discovery... makes you wonder.
Click to expand...

Thanks,

I'll wait to see who else replies.
 
chili

chili

Try this Dave.
Daniel 3:23 - 25
23.And these 3 men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
24. Then King Nebuchadnezzar was astonished; and he rose in haste and spoke, saying to his counselors , "Did we not cast 3 men bound into the midst of the fire?"
They answered and said to the king, "true, O King"
25. "Look" he answered," I see 4 men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the 4th is like the Son of God"

I believe it was Jesus. Even tho He was not on earth yet, Jesus was , is , and always shall be the beginning and the end
 
D

Dave Lucas

JG27_chili said:
Try this Dave.
Daniel 3:23 - 25
23.And these 3 men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
24. Then King Nebuchadnezzar was astonished; and he rose in haste and spoke, saying to his counselors , "Did we not cast 3 men bound into the midst of the fire?"
They answered and said to the king, "true, O King"
25. "Look" he answered," I see 4 men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the 4th is like the Son of God"
Click to expand...

I know what the text says. Which is it an angel or Jesus?
 
CeileDe

CeileDe

I believe it was an angel. Nebuchadnezzar was a pagan at the time and wouldn't have known who the Son Of God was. He would have worshipped many God's as a pagan therefore I would say Angel.
 
chili

chili

Dave Lucas said:
I know what the text says. Which is it an angel or Jesus?
Click to expand...
Well look at the last words of 25. The 4th is like the Son of God. Angels are not like the Son of God. I can't explain it literally but I take the words for what I see. Hope that helps sir.
In either case the 3 men were not harmed
 
CeileDe

CeileDe

JG27_chili said:
Well look at the last words of 25. The 4th is like the Son of God. Angels are not like the Son of God. I can't explain it literally but I take the words for what I see. Hope that helps sir.
In either case the 3 men were not harmed
Click to expand...
Look at a later verse where he calls the 4th person an angel. KJV, NASB and ESV have 4th person as angel. Believe it is verse 28
 
Ravindran

Ravindran

I believe it is Jesus (pre-incarnate).. And I have read this somewhere.. We all know Daniel knew the scriptures so very well.. I am sure that would have been the cases with his 3 friends as well.. Below is a promise from Lord to Israel, written by Isaiah.. When the king ordered them to be put into the furnace, probably they might have prayed with the below promise.. The Lord probably heard their prayers and come down to protect them.. The promise is "I will be with you".. So I believe it was Jesus who walked with them, fulfilling his promise..

When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and when you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep over you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned; the flames will not set you ablaze
 
gonefishing

gonefishing

I looked up and saw a man dressed in linen clothing, with a belt of pure gold around his waist. His body looked like a precious gem. His face flashed like lightning, and his eyes flamed like torches. His arms and feet shone like polished bronze, and his voice roared like a vast multitude of people. (Daniel 10:5, 6 NLT)

This is obviously later in the book of Daniel. I believe this was Jesus pre incarnate.

I looked up and saw a man dressed in linen clothing, with a belt of pure gold around his waist. His body looked like a precious gem. His face flashed like lightning, and his eyes flamed like torches. His arms and feet shone like polished bronze, and his voice roared like a vast multitude of people.

He replied, “Do you know why I have come? Soon I must return to fight against the spirit prince of the kingdom of Persia, and after that the spirit prince of the kingdom of Greece will come. Meanwhile, I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. (No one helps me against these spirit princes except Michael, your spirit prince. (Daniel 10:5, 6, 20, 21 NLT)

I often heard it preached that it was the pre incarnate Jesus in the furnace, and I have always accepted it as that. Much like in Genesis when Abraham is visited.
 
Abdicate

Abdicate

Angel in the Hebrew and Aramaic:

- Original: מלאך
- Transliteration: Mal'ak
- Phonetic: mal-awk'
- Definition:
1. messenger, representative
a. messenger
b. angel
c. the theophanic angel​
- Origin: from an unused root meaning to despatch as a deputy

As to this phrase, you may not like it... and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God. The word God here is actually אלהין whose root is אלה and is translated Allah. Remember who was speaking and what he believed. Just keep in mind that Allah doesn't have a son in any historical tribe - before Islam. So that alone is a miracle that he said it that way. Also remember, this part of the scriptures is Aramaic and not Hebrew. Either way, the God of Israel was given the glory.

- Original: אלהּ
- Transliteration: 'elahh (Aramaic)
- Phonetic: el-aw'
- Definition:
1. god, God
a. god, heathen deity
b. God (of Israel) ​

As to the identity of the fourth man, none is given, so let the Holy Spirit give you peace with whatever He says, an angel, a man, or Jesus Pre-incarnate.
 
christianbacktobasics

christianbacktobasics

Dave Lucas said:
Thanks,

I'll wait to see who else replies.
Click to expand...

Hello Dave, I believe the common thought among many commentators is that it was indeed Jesus and I'd have to agree. The observation you can make from scripture to add weight to the belief is that each time an individual was confronted by an angel, they would bow down to worship to which the angel would reply saying 'no' however, when the instance is Jesus Christ himself, he holds his peace. Hope this adds to your thoughts....
 
D

Dave Lucas

The text in Daniel clearly uses the aramaic, bar-elahin.

Elahin is a plural.

The king states he sees a son of the gods. As a polytheist gentile, this mean he saw a spirit.

The text is implying angel, Not Jesus.

This is where we have to differ to the Jews whom have gone over the Old Testament more than any of us have.
 
Euphemia

Euphemia

It was Jesus---the pre-incarnate Jesus who revealed Himself to many in the Old Testament. He was referred to as the angel of the Lord, and here in this story, as the Son of God.

H426
אלהּ
'ĕlâhh
el-aw'
(Chaldee); corresponding to H433; God: - God, god.
 
Abdicate

Abdicate

I look at it like this: the entire word of God points to Jesus from any angle you need to be able to find Him. While indeed the "Angel" may not have been Jesus, I like to think so and do not believe it's a stretch. He'll never leave us or forsake us.
 
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