Angels Among Us?

[the_patriot13]

Paranormal and ghost hunters have come up with tons of evidence that would pass any form of scientific scrutiny.

To what ghost hunters are you referring to? like the TV show? please-people see what they want to see, and thats that. Run a infrared camera through a empty building at night, and all the sudden a magnetic pulse thingy wiggles a needle and you see a funny shadow, thats not scientific evidence of paranormal activity. Ive met plenty of people who believe so hard in the existence of ghosts and such, that they "think" theve honestly seen something paranormal, and believe it with all their heart, when it may be nothing more then an elaborate hoax, like in this case. Im not saying demons dont come out and mess with people, but I will say from my experience probably 98% of all "ghost" and paranormal events, are all either A: hoaxes B: natural events that people see but dont understand or C: seeing what they want to see. If they get themselves so worked up into believing something then theyre going to see ghosts in everything whether they are there or not.

to address another comment, when 2 or 3 are in a courtroom and telling the exact same story, there is almost a 100% chance that they are lying. It means they got together and got their stories straight. Eye witness accounts can often be the worst evidence out there, in an event because no two people see things the same way-they will each tell a different version. Its not that one is lying and the other is not, it has to do with perspective, they will all catch different details then the other, and all miss different details then the other, because they all perceive things different. If theyre saying the exact same thing, then theres a 99.9% chance that they got together before hand, and got their stories straight, and are lying.

On top of that, hoaxes are incredibly easy to do. just for example, lets have a hypothetical situation, Find the right time of night, send up a bright flare over the temple mount. All the sudden, you have 200 people seeing a "bright light" floating over the temple mount, and will all testify in court to that effect. Different people, will have different interpretations, since they dont know its a flare. Some people, will assume its an angel and a sign of the end times. Others, will see it as a demon. Others will think there has to be a scientific explanation for it.

Fact is something like this, especially in todays age of technology, is extremely easy to fake, and I mean EXTREMELY easy. I can make a video on my computer right now, in roughly 5 minutes, that shows the exact same image, from 5 different angles.

 

[Glomung]

No, I am most certainly not talking about that nonsense on TV.
I am speaking of research along the lines of what the Warrens did in the 70s and 80s.
Sadly, paranormal research is a field littered with frauds and sensationalism.

 

[Brother_Mike_V]

Well...people are going to get duped by "THE SHOW" (even the 'elect') that Satan and the antichrist are going to put on in the future. Especially those duped by false doctrines...

 

[Agricola]

When you look at what Islam and Judaism thinks about the so called Tribulation, its all rather interesting, already they have it in mind that Christ is going to be the bad guy, the similarities are not co-incidence but Satans counterfeit plan.

I was just thinking, the title of this is "Angels Among Us?" , in reply, Yes they are. If God is to protect us, its often by commanding angels to come to our assistance.

Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares

most of time we will not see an angel, but other people will if they are intent on hurt. I have heard numerous testimonies were a Christian was going to be attacked or harmed in some way, but the people bent on doing it backed off after seeing who was with the Christian. In one instance an armed gang went on past a farm in South Africa after seeing a dozens of armed men in white uniforms surrounding the farm they were going to burn and murder the occupants. In another classic case, a person intent on rape or murder, spots the victim, but backs off after seeing at least a couple of huge guys walking just behind their target.

I also have numerous accounts where people have been in situations of near death, yet a billion to one encounter with another "human" saves them, One woman from my church, walked dog regulary on fields behind her house. She said you can be out there for days and not see another human. She fell in steep ditch, it was wet and raining, she could not get out, after some time, she called to God, a couple of old women came along the path and just pulled her out, her dog somehow also managed to get out, she turned back around to say thank you agian, but they had dissapeared.

However cool angels may seem, in heaven we will be superior to them, there is this growing trend to treat angels as amazing beings who are being eleveated to same levels as God in our eyes, which is wrong, yes angels maybe cool, but they are just servants of God and when we get to heaven will be lower status than us.

 

[Brother_Mike_V]

However cool angels may seem, in heaven we will be superior to them, there is this growing trend to treat angels as amazing beings who are being eleveated to same levels as God in our eyes, which is wrong, yes angels maybe cool, but they are just servants of God and when we get to heaven will be lower status than us.

Ahhhhh....the wonder and mystery of God! What other god can compare?

 

[Lifeasweknowit]

Ahhhhh....the wonder and mystery of God! What other god can compare?

Huh??? Where does it say this and who cares? It shouldn't matter who is higher than who in the presence of Him...

 

[calvin]

Well there is something somewhere about us judging angels, but I think that is not understood properly. our faith will likely condemn those angels that have rebelled......that is all as I see it. I agree it should not matter. We will have our job descriptions, angels will have theirs. We all will be adoring and worshiping the Lord............I just hope they don't sing as off key as I do

 

[Lifeasweknowit]

Well there is something somewhere about us judging angels, but I think that is not understood properly. our faith will likely condemn those angels that have rebelled......that is all as I see it. I agree it should not matter. We will have our job descriptions, angels will have theirs. We all will be adoring and worshiping the Lord............I just hope they don't sing as off key as I do

Thanks Calv and Thank you Rusty for always being there and answering my questions, which I know has to be frustrating sometimes.

Calv, is this the scripture you were talking about?

1 Corinthians 6:3
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? (KJV)
Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! (NIV)

I did a little research and people go back and forth on it referring to fallen angels.

 

[Brother_Mike_V]

Huh??? Where does it say this and who cares? It shouldn't matter who is higher than who in the presence of Him...

Well, I am not siding either way on the 'angel' doctrine-if you will. I tend to operate on the fact that 'not the half has been told', eternity is a long time, and I am sure that when we are in the presence of God FOREVER-there won't be anymore confusion.

To be unscriptural-I am pretty sure not the .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% has been told.

As a side note: I am pretty sure there is a hierarchy in Heaven-God/ Christ being the KING....

 

[Lifeasweknowit]

As a side note: I am pretty sure there is a hierarchy in Heaven-God/ Christ being the KING....

Yes, and that's all that should matter! IMO

 

[Brother_Mike_V]

I would like to see some proof of this idea from a Jewish or Muslim source please. Thanks.

I remember when I was in Iraq and the "fearsome eagle" will destroy Iraq thing started and it was supposedly in the Koran/Qu'ran in verse 9:11-totally untrue. But people want to believe what they want to believe.

 

[Brother_Mike_V]

Dirty: This is the verse in the Qu'ran, chapter 9 verse 11:

This is in regard to polytheists who fought against Muslims...which included at that time trinitarian Christians of Arabic blood.

So I don't see what you are referring to in this verse.

* "Zakah" is defined here:

There was a 'rumor'/ untruth for lack of a better word at the moment about verse 9:11 after the USA invaded Iraq: (see below)

"This is something to think about! Since America is
typically represented by an eagle. Saddam should
have read up on his Muslim passages... The following
verse is from the Quran, (the Islamic Bible)
Quran (9:11) -- For it is written that a son of
Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of
the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of
Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced;
for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; and there was peace.
Note the verse number!!!!!"

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/quran911.asp

I guess the point I was trying to make is that as with Bible, many things are taken out of context or just plain untrue in many religions, doctrines, theologies....

 

[Agricola]

I would like to see some proof of this idea from a Jewish or Muslim source please. Thanks.

The Jews will declare The Anti-Christ Messiah when he brings about genuine peace and allows them to have the Temple built. Part of this deal could see a complete hand over of Jeruselm as capital of a Palestinian State, which will bring aboard all the Mulsims thinking The Anti-Christ is infact thier great prophet. By the time the Jews realise that this is infact not the Messiah, there wont be many left alive anyway, however the rest of the world will continue to follow and support. The two witnesses will be seen by some as the Anti-christ and false prophet, Christ returning could also be passed off as the Anti-CHrist, as the whole world will then battle against Christ.

As with the nature of prophecy, how these things come around we have no idea, we can speculate, UFOs may also play part. Jesus is bad alien come to destroy the good things put in place by The Anti-CHrist etc.

We will know one day.

 

[calvin]

Thanks Calv and Thank you Rusty for always being there and answering my questions, which I know has to be frustrating sometimes.

Calv, is this the scripture you were talking about?

1 Corinthians 6:3
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? (KJV)
Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! (NIV)

I did a little research and people go back and forth on it referring to fallen angels.

Yes that is the passage I had in mind. There are two others that I think are pertinent.
Some angels do hold a privileged position Luke 1:19,20. Note the seemingly boastful pronouncement ..'because you did not believe my words'.
The other one is Jude 1:9. That pretty well tells us that we do not get to sit at a bench banging a gavel. Judgment belongs to the Lord.

 

[Major]

When you look at what Islam and Judaism thinks about the so called Tribulation, its all rather interesting, already they have it in mind that Christ is going to be the bad guy, the similarities are not co-incidence but Satans counterfeit plan.

I was just thinking, the title of this is "Angels Among Us?" , in reply, Yes they are. If God is to protect us, its often by commanding angels to come to our assistance.

Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares

most of time we will not see an angel, but other people will if they are intent on hurt. I have heard numerous testimonies were a Christian was going to be attacked or harmed in some way, but the people bent on doing it backed off after seeing who was with the Christian. In one instance an armed gang went on past a farm in South Africa after seeing a dozens of armed men in white uniforms surrounding the farm they were going to burn and murder the occupants. In another classic case, a person intent on rape or murder, spots the victim, but backs off after seeing at least a couple of huge guys walking just behind their target.

I also have numerous accounts where people have been in situations of near death, yet a billion to one encounter with another "human" saves them, One woman from my church, walked dog regulary on fields behind her house. She said you can be out there for days and not see another human. She fell in steep ditch, it was wet and raining, she could not get out, after some time, she called to God, a couple of old women came along the path and just pulled her out, her dog somehow also managed to get out, she turned back around to say thank you agian, but they had dissapeared.

However cool angels may seem, in heaven we will be superior to them, there is this growing trend to treat angels as amazing beings who are being eleveated to same levels as God in our eyes, which is wrong, yes angels maybe cool, but they are just servants of God and when we get to heaven will be lower status than us.

Dear Ag.......I would never argue your point, I would only caution you to be careful here on Heb. 13:2

Please be careful not to read to much into that verse. The verse says "SOME have entertained" (aorist tensel).

The use of the present tense meaning that some DO entertain angels would give grounds for expecting that to happen all the time today and IMO that is not correct Bible teaching. IT IS what we all have been taught growing up but again IMO it simply does not conform to The Bible and it can and has lead many people to worship angels which is way Paul cauthioned against it in Galatians 1:8-9.

As for the examples you used, they are very colorful to be sure but like all stories, they tend to grow as they are re-told. We as humans tend to add a little to the things we experience to make us look a little different in the eyes of others and having been to Uganda a few times, I can tell you that the culture there of spirituality gets very muddeled.

I personally was in a prayer meeting where an older woman told everyone that while she was asleep one night, Jesus came to her, pulled a tooth that had been hurting and then replaced that tooth with a Gold tooth. Everyone present shouted AMEN and praised the Lord.

Well, it just happens that a dentist friend of mine is the one who pulled her tooth, and he is the one who replaced her tooth. She was, according to my friend in so much pain when he got to her, he had to give her medication and that caused her to see what she thought was Jesus.

But he more she told the story, the more AMENS she got and before long, the whole town now accepts the story.

 

[Major]

Frankly: I think the whole "banking-on-a-heavenly-manifestation" ploy is a dangerous business for Christians.

Satan will never manifest himself as who he is, but will mold his illusions to his audience, whether Christians, Muslims, occultists, pagans or atheists. He cons through pushing the buttons of our familiar tastes in outlook.

Better be grounded on the Word and His personal instructions to you rather than "miracles", angel visits or the portrait of Jesus on a piece of toast.

Absolutely correct Rusty!