Are all Muslims troublemakers?

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The following verses are taken directly from the Koran:

Chapter 4, verse 157

And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah 'Îsa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it appeared so to them [the resemblance of 'Îsa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man)], and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. 'Îsa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary).

Chapter 3, verse 62

Verily! This is the true narrative [about the story of 'Îsa (Jesus)], and La ilaha illallah (none has the right to be worshipped but Allah, the One and the Only True God, Who has neither a wife nor a son). And indeed, Allah is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.


The first verse denies the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The second verse denies Jesus is the Son of God. Both verses, according to the Bible are anti-christ sourced. 1 John 2:22; 1 John 4:3; and 2 John 1:7.

I conclude from their text (it being anti-christ inspired and, knowing satan's tactics as I do) that satan is even now inspiring many Muslims to hate/kill/torture Christians and Jews. Satan hates all mankind but especially Christians and Jews. There are many, many specific Koranic texts mandating Allah's followers to hate/kill/torture Christians and Jews, which...according to the news is happening daily and has happened all through the Muslim history.

We should be wise as serpents and harmless as doves, but this doesn't mean being friends with the enemy...it means watching the enemy's tactics and learning how their game plan works, and being forewarned so we will not have to engage in physical defense of our families and selves.
 
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I for one have no special interest in defending Islam. I believe in Christ.

The issues I have on this thread are:

1. I'm wary of lumping any group of people together as "all <target group> are <bad because>".

2. I feel that (at least nominally) Christians have been guilty of many of the same type of things some are throwing at Muslims.

I'm far from convinced this type of "stone throwing" is a good idea. The latest target in this thread has been sex abuse. Need I mention the child abuse scandals that have been exposed within some of our religious organisations in recent years?

Something I have observed with some atheists is that this type of how bad the other group are compared to Christians can easily to the pointing out of our own failings as a whole. Going on to defend our own failings with lines like "they were a minority and they weren't real Christians anyway" while failing to make the same allowances for other groups is very likely to lead to is the feeling "wow, not only are Christians all this too, they are complete and utter hypocrites to go with it".

I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't for example speak out against extremism but that I do feel that we should avoid targeting whole groups because of the actions and/or attitudes of a minority. I only see that as further fuelling the flames of hostility from various sources towards us.




What I think I see over here is an increase in younger Muslims becoming radicalised. I don't however see the demonization of all Muslims helping towards a possible solution. Whether the Islamic leaders over here could to more to help is not something I can answer but I will post something dated August 2014 from The Muslim Council of Great Britain:

I understand your concerns.
May I point out that Christianity does not teach or promote violence or child sex abuse. When for example some church officials are guilty of child sex abuse for example, and the church covers it up, then the church becomes an accessory to child sex abuse. But that does not mean tghat Christianity either teaches or condones it, nor would it be fair to say that all members of that church are child sex abusers.

But in the case of Islam, it does teach violence toward non Islamic people. And while it might be true that not all muslims are violent, to be in submission to their faith they must be prepared to perpetrate violence as required. Muslims by definition are in submission to Islam.
So the issue is not that all muslims are violent, it is that Islam itself advocates violence, in contrast to the fact that Christianity does not advocate child sex abuse though some within the churches have been found to practice it.
I think it is this advocacy of violence that some are talking about.

As for atheist objections and ridicule, Jesus Himself was rejected and ridiculed yet He was totally without fault.

John 3:17. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
John 3:18. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
John 3:19. And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.

Islam does not believe in the name of the Son of God it just teaches that Jesus was one of many prophets, not to be compared of course with Mohammad.
So who is it that condemns Islam and those who submit to it?
 
But in the case of Islam, it does teach violence toward non Islamic people. And while it might be true that not all muslims are violent, to be in submission to their faith they must be prepared to perpetrate violence as required.
If that were true, we would be seeing all devout Muslims behaving with violence toward all non-Muslims on a daily basis. On a far, far greater scale than we do now. I do not see this taking place. Furthermore, I have never personally met or known a violent Muslim.
 
If that were true, we would be seeing all devout Muslims behaving with violence toward all non-Muslims on a daily basis. On a far, far greater scale than we do now. I do not see this taking place. Furthermore, I have never personally met or known a violent Muslim.


I hope you never do!

the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence
 
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You need to ask someone like Malala Yousafzai who lives in a Muslim run nation.

Or Mariam Ibraheem, who was recently released from Muslim prison in the Sudan, along with her two children (one of which she gave birth to while chained to the prison wall). She was imprisoned for not recanting her faith in Jesus Christ and for marrying a Christian. If not for the efforts and political pressure from Christian agencies in America, her sentence of death for not converting to Islam would have been executed.

I have been watching her circumstances for the past year. Here is a link to the story about her: http://frc.org/

But yes, I have encountered violent Muslims in my life.
 
If that were true, we would be seeing all devout Muslims behaving with violence toward all non-Muslims on a daily basis. On a far, far greater scale than we do now. I do not see this taking place. Furthermore, I have never personally met or known a violent Muslim.

PLAR, I know you "do not see this taking place." But is it possible you may be refusing (perhaps from your own fear) to see the evidence (credible evidence), which has been pointed out to you gently numerous times in this forum? I agree that not all Muslims are trouble-makers...AT THIS TIME. But again, I point out that not all Muslims are in political power AT THIS TIME. As for myself, I do fear their faith, its consistently violent history, and the evil spirit (antichrist) behind it. And I feel compelled to continue to speak out about how Islam spreads itself and what it inspires in its followers when it gains momentum.

Do I feel we should ostracize, discriminate, or hate the individual Muslim? NO. And in the same way, I do not feel we should treat individual homosexuals like that.

The Muslim faith is NOT ONLY A RELIGION. It is a theocracy which joins religion and politics in a way which our own country specifically spells out is unacceptable.

And failing to admit to ourselves the truth of the political agendas of these movements endangers us and our families. I do not want my children/grandchildren exposed to these concepts in school, especially during their formative years (which we all know both of these movements are encroaching on our education system). I do not want Sharia law imposed in America (which totally conflicts with our Constitution, and dictates and provides harsh penalties for its violation; for every facet of one's life, including religion).

Already, Dearborn, MI has accepted and fully implemented Sharia law due to the 1/3 population of Muslims in their city. How do you think that happened? I pointed out to you in an earlier post how it happens. It happens in the same way ANY political power grab happens...the slippery slope of Americans refusing to see the trend behind the movement, in the interest of being tolerant and politically correct.

In the last several years, I watched as Muslims became more and more violent in that city, as their population grew in numbers and political power. The Muslim clergy claimed the violence was due to their population not being allowed to live by Sharia law. Well, we will see if the violence subsides now that their law has been given way. It will be interesting to see what unfolds in Dearborn, and I, for one, will be watching closely.

Please remember that Jesus DID NOT tolerate false religion ideologies. He was adamant about speaking out and did so in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS.
 
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As for atheist objections and ridicule, Jesus Himself was rejected and ridiculed yet He was totally without fault.

I'm not bothered about ridicule. You can get that just for believing there is a god.

My concern with atheists is more connected to what seems to me to be a growing number of people who want to make a case for banning religions and who are quite keen to prove how dangerous all religions are. "All Muslims are bad" is just another example of how hostile, bigoted and hypocritical we can be to them and as I've said before the "well it's all of them but only some of us who weren't real Christians anyway" defence does not work.

I do believe there will come a time when we are persecuted from all angles and not being a believer in the Rapture, I find it frightening. I accept that a very nasty time will come but I don't see the point in helping others to justify their dislike of us. Perhaps particularly so when most peoples reasonable observations don't match what is being said, eg. most Muslimsd, at least in the UK, do seem to live decent and peaceful lives.
 
For my POV, I think it's probably reached the agree to disagree stage.

Added:

On further reflection, I think a time has come for me to take a week or so away from this site. For better or worse, I will be back but bye for now.
 
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For my POV, I think it's probably reached the agree to disagree stage.

Added:

On further reflection, I think a time has come for me to take a week or so away from this site. For better or worse, I will be back but bye for now.
Sorry you feel that way. I have enjoyed reading your insights on this subject.

What you say regarding atheists is particularly astute. If we give atheists enough rope they will hang us. It doesn't help that there are news stories these days about certain Christian parents who choose to pray rather than give their children medical attention and the children are dying. With things like that and people insisting that a whole faith such as Islam is murderous, how long before they make inroads to have religion banned completely? And what's more, maybe they actually have a case against us as long as needless deaths continue to be directly attributable to religious beliefs. I do NOT want to see something like that happen.
 
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The concept of abrogation in islam is a long and drawn out process. In the end, every school (madhab) disagrees to one extent or the other concerning abrogation, and every scholar disagrees with everyone else. Depending upon which scholar you listen to, you have some teaching only 1 verses was ever abrogated and some believe up to 500. (I personally think those who believe up to 500 are crazy, lazy, and just WANT it to be like that so they don't have to do much thinking!)

I personally only believe in the abrogation of 9 verses. The rest work hand in hand together... this is what I believe. This is how I was taught by scholars, and this is how I always taught Islam - as I was also a teacher.

In order for you to see how in depth this concept is, and how it originated from the scholars themselves, I will quote this:

Hanafi Doctrine of Naskh (Abrogation)

Hamdard Islamicus, Vol. 22 (1999) No. 3
by Dr. M. Akram Rana

In the usual classification of Muslim sciences, the usul al-fiqh isgenerally defined as the science of the proofs which lead to the establishment of legal standard.(1)

The usul had been the subject of study by jurists as attested by the fact that Abu Yusuf discusses certain aspects of it in his Kitab al-Kharaj(2) and Shaybani is reported to have written a book on the usul.(3) But this term had not yet acquired the technical meaning of a science dealing specifically with the sources of Islamic law. The Risalah,(4) a unique work in the literature of Islamic law, gave Shafi’i a name as the founder of the science of usul al-fiqh. Shafi’i was followed in his monumental work on the principles of jurisprudence by a Hanafi jurist, al-Karkhi, the teacher of al-Jassas. Although his treatment was very sketchy, it was a fruitful start in the field concerned.(5) Al-Karkhi was followed by Abu Bakr al-Jassas who wrote a comprehensive book about usul al-fiqh in which he explained the views of his teacher al-Karkhi.(6) The Usul al-Jassas, as a matter of fact, is the first systematic attempt ever made to describe the principles of Muslim jurisprudence. The late Hanafi works on the usul and particularly on al-Nasikh wa’l Mansukh give us clues that most of the ideas were borrowed from the Usul al-Jassas.(7) Mustafa Zaid,(8) an Egyptian Writer on the subject of al-Nasikh wa'l-Mansukh, states that definition of naskh by Jassas was followed for five centuries. Jassas included in his Usul the views who do and do not believe in the theory of Naskh. The views of his fellow Hanafites like 'Isa b. Aban are also explained. Further, he presented Karkhi's views and remarked that Karkhi's opinions were clearer than those of 'Isa b. Aban's.(9) Records show that Jassas was an exponent of the Hanafi school and its acknowledged Usuli. The production of the Usul al-Jassas was intended to verify the fiqh of Imam Abu Hanifah. Jassas endeavoured to document the Hanafi views in the light of verses of the Qur'an and the ahadith of the Prophet (P.B.H.).

Abu Hanifah may here be mentioned as the founder of the system. He acquired much of his knowledge from Hammad b. Abi Sulaymain who is regarded as the pioneer of the Hanafi school. The fiqh of the Iraqi school was supported and established by the great pupils of Imam Abu Hanifah i.e., Abu Yusuf and Shaybani. At the request of caliph Harun al-Rasyid, the former compiled his Kitab al-Kharaj which, however, covers much wider ground than is indicated by its title. However, little is learnt about naskh from the book. Abu Yusuf maintains that the Sunnah can override the Qur'an. The abrogation of the Qur'anic injunction of ablution (al-Qur'an, V:6) by the wiping of the shoes is a case in point.(10) Shaybani, like his companion Abu Yusuf, did not discuss the principles of abrogation in detail although some instances of naskh are discussed in his works. Shaybani reported that the Prophet (P.B.H.) launched a campaign against. Al-Ta'if at the beginning of the sacred month of Muharram and continued it for forty days until he captured the city in the month of Safar. Shaybani then produced a report on the authority of Mujahid in which he had declared that the prohibition of fighting during the sacred months was abrogated. According to Mujahid, the prohibition of fighting during the sacred months as laid down in the Qur'an (11:217) was abrogated by God in another verse: "slay the Pagans wherever you may find them" (al-Qur’an, IX:5). When Shaybani that fighting during the sacred months, according to Kalbi, was not abrogated, he remarked that Kalbi's opinion was not to be followed.(11) This sort of report tells us that there was no agreed theory of naskh. It also informs us that there seems to be no agreement among the jurists on the incidence of naskh. The earlier works on fiqh and hadith show that the word naskh was not used frequently. In the Muwatta’ of Imam Malik the word naskh is mentioned only once. It is held that the Qur'anic injunction which prescribed the precise shares of the listed relatives of a deceased person (al-Qur’an, IV:11-12) abrogated the Qur'anic injunction concerning wasiyyah (al-Qur’an, 11:180). Imam Malik also indicated that the Qur'an could abrogate the Sunnah, but in this case he used the word taraka. He agreed with his teacher Zuhri on the point that the later command abrogated the earlier.(12)

The works on al-Nasikh wa'l-Mansukh reveal that there was no single reported instance in which the Prophet (P.B.H.) said explicitly that a certain ruling was abrogated. Hamadhani, however, records two versions in which the name of the Prophet (P.B.H.) was involved. 'Urwah b. Zubayr said: "I testify that ray father told me that the Prophet (P.B.H.) would make a statement and after a while, he would abrogate it by means of another statement just as the Qur’an abrogates other parts of the Qur’an". Ibn Baylmani reported on the authority of his father that ibn 'Umar heard from the Prophet (P.B.H.) who had said: "Some parts of my ahadith abrogate other parts of my ahadith". Hamadhani, after recording this hadith, argued that no one except ibn Baylmani had narrated this ahadith. Further, ibn Baylmani was not a reliable person and his hadith must not be accepted.(13)

Shafi’i, according to Hamadhani, was the first scholar who systematised the principles of naskh.(14) This reveals that principles of naskh were in operation. Before we present the Hanafi's views on abrogation and the arguments against and for the theory concerned presented by Jassas and documented by Sarakhsi, it would be extremely useful to see how Jassas settles the meaning of naskh.

The scholars disagreed concerning the meaning of naskh. Some said: "it refers to naql (transfer). They say: nasakha al-Kitab (He copied the book i.e., he transferred what was in, the original copy to another copy). Others said: it refers to ibtal (nullification). They say: nasakhat al-shams al-zill, (the sun removed the shade). Some of them said: naskh is zalah. They refer to nasakhat al-rih al-athar (The wind obliterated the traces). These words are close in meaning, and whatever naskh may mean in the language, when it is used for the abrogation of the ruling, it is used metaphorically." Jassas rejects all the possible meaning of naskh, derived from secular usage whether it refers to naql, ibtal or iza1ah.(15)

Jassas restricts discussion of the word naskh to the Shari’ah usage and remarks: "Naskh is the declaration of the time of the particular ruling which we thought would remain for ever, but the second ruling made it clear that the time of the ruling was for a certain period and it was now no longer valid."(16)

This meaning of naskh had not been defined by any of Jassas' predecessors, therefore, he was the first person to declare that naskh in the Shari’ah is the bayan of the duration of the ruling. This definition of naskh was adopted by Jassas in order to refute the views of those Muslim scholars who held that naskh, never occurred in the Shari’ah. It was also to refute those Jews who had declared that Moses had informed them that the Shari’ah of the Torah and working on the day of the Sabbath would never be abrogated. Thirdly, it was to refute the views of Shafi’i who had maintained that only the Qur'an superseded the Qur'an; only the Sunnah superseded the Sunnah. He claimed that they did not and could not supersede each other. The function of the Sunnah, he believes, is to follow what is laid down in the Qur'an. In support of his view he listed some Qur’anic verses which according to him clearly spoke about the abrogation of the Qur'an alone.(17) He refers the Qur'anic verses X:15 and II:106. His opponents interpreted the same verses to indicate that the Qur’an could be abrogated by the Sunnah, and the Sunnah could be abrogated by the Qur'an. According to Jassas, the Qur’an (11:106) indicated that naskh occurred in the Qur'an. It did not indicate that the Qur'anic verse would be abrogated by a better or similar Qur'anic verse, since nothing prevented as from understanding from the verse that abrogation might be achieved by the Sunnah which was revealed to the Prophet (P.B.H.), and this, he argued, was the precise meaning of the verses: "we bring better or like thereof("18.) God meant to state that He would make a ruling superior to the first in the sense of its being easier to perform, or richer in terms of reward.(19)

Concerning those, Muslim scholars who did not believe in the theory of naskh, Jassas stated: "Some of the modern scholars have asserted that there was no naskh in the Shari’ah of our Prophet (P.B.H.). The occurrence of naskh was merely an indication that laws of the previous prophets (A.S.) were abrogated like the Sabbath and facing towards the East or the West while praying. They had argued that our Prophet (P.B.H.) was the last of the prophets (A S.) and his Shari’ah was confirmed and everlasting until the day of judgement. The man (Abu Muslim al-Isfahani) who had held this view was endowed with knowledge of rhetoric and Arabic language, but he had no knowledge of jurisprudence and the principles of jurisprudence. Although it could not be doubted that he was perfect in faith, he deviated greatly from the right path by declaring this dogma, since no one had reported this before him. Our predecessors and their successors understood from the religion of God, that numerous rulings were abrogated from it; and they have narrated these reports in a way which could not be questioned. There are general, specific, confirmed and obscure passages in the Qur'an. The one who rejected the occurrence of naskh, rejected all its general, specific, confirmed and obscure commands because these categories all arrived in the same manner. This man had derived from the abrogated and abrogating verses, judgements which were excluded from the interpretations of our early scholars I (Jassas) could not understand from where he had obtained his information. However, I maintain that he had used his own judgement leaving aside the reports of the salaf. The Prophet (P.B.H.) had said: 'whoever interpreted the Qur'an by using his personal opinion, certainly committed a sin'."

Jassas' opponents quoted several passages from the Qur’an in order to show that abrogation or withdrawal of the verses was impossible; God said: 'We have without doubt, sent down the Message (Qur’an) and We will surely guard it (from corruption) (al-Qur’an, XV:9). God also said: "It is for us to collect it (the Qur’an) and to promulgate it: But when We have promulgated it, follow then its recital (as promulgated). Nay, more it is for Us to explain it (and make it clear)" (al-Qur'an, LXXV:17-19). The explicit meaning of the verses require that God would guard the Qur’an for ever and its implication is for the whole ummah because He did not specify the time or generation. God said: "...it (the Qur'an), is no less a Message for all creatures". (al-Qur'an, XII:104). God in this verse informed us that the whole Qur'an is a Message (or Reminder) and it confirms that there would be no abrogation of the wording, because what is abrogated or forgotten and did not reach us, would not be considered as a Message for the people.

Jassas explains away these verses by simply saying that they refer to something else. The verses do not prevent the possibility of the ruling being abrogated. In a similar vein, the verses do not prevent the possibility of the wording being abrogated, said Jasas.

The view that these verses do not prevent us from talking about the abrogation of the wording or ruling might mean that Jassas was dealing with the two phenomena of the naskh:
  1. Naskh al-tilawah duna al-hukm and
  2. Naskh al-hukm duna al-tilawah.

The first is adopted by Jassas in order to establish the ruling of kaffarat al-yamin which is imposed upon a believer who fails to fulfil his deliberate oath. The Hanafis argued that three days should be consecutive, because the wording mutatabi’at had existed in 'Abd Allah b. Mas’ud's reading.(20) Jassas and Sarakhsi claim that the wording was withdrawn while the ruling remained valid.(21) Tabari was also of the view that the keeper of the fast who has to expiate for the breaking of an oath should fast for three continuous days. There is no disagreement among the scholars that this will suffice; others disagree as to whether fasting on non-consecutive days will suffice as expiation.(22)

Shifi’i’s predecessors, both Hanafis and Malikis, allowed the abrogation of the Sunnah by the Qur'an and vice verse. For Shafi'i who had interpreted the verse No. 106 of the Surah al-Baqarah (No. II) in the light of the verse No. 10 of the Surah Nahl (No. XVI), it was very difficult to adopt the procedure. Shafi'i succeeded in his attempts and secured the place of the Sunnah as a source of law and the danger which had threatened it was no longer felt. Even the followers of Shafi’i, let alone the Hanafis and Malikis, felt free to, revert to pre-Shafi'i thinking. Jassas, a Hanafi exponent, had no difficulty, therefore, in arguing that the Sunnah could be abrogated by the Qur’an and the Qur'an could be abrogated by the Sunnah. However, they could not be abrogated by khabr al-wahid. Further, khabr al-wahid as an addition to the Qur'an cannot be accepted.(23)

The naskh implied that the later command abrogated the earlier. Sarakhsi says: "The contradiction between the sources is impossible, since this would mean Divine fallibility; in actuality the contradiction is created by our human inability to estimate correctly the date of the texts. Once this has been done, however, the later abrogates the earlier."(24)

Among other principles of the naskh, one ofthem is very important. Once the date has been established, the nasikh verse or hadith became easy to be traced. Reports from the Companions and Successors are also decisive in the process of distinguishing the nasikh from the mansukh. This indicates that the naskh as a principle was alleged to have been accepted during the lifetime of the Companions. Jassas' final criterion for determining the nasikh from the mansukh isthat of ijma'. However, ijma' itself cannot abrogate the ruling of the Qur’an and the Sunnah.

The principles of naskh were justified by referring to the wording of the Qur'anic verses II:106 and XVI:101. The verses were shown to provide sufficient grounds for the occurrence of the naskh. The two modes: naskh al-hukm duna al-tilawah and naskh al-tilawah duna al-hukm were forwarded by the jurists as they were directly related to the fiqh. The naskh was alleged to have worked within and between the sources, as they could not solve the seeming contradiction, though being informed of the dictum: "al-jama' yamna' al-naskh" (reconciliation rules out naskh).(25)

~ Notes and References ~
  1. Encydopaedia of Islam (4 vols.), London, 1924, vol. 4, P. 1655.
  2. Abu Yusuf, Kitab al-Kharaj, Cairo, 1352/1933. According to Khatib Baghdadi, Abu Yusuf was the first person to compose a book on Usul Talrikh Baghdad (14 vols.), Beirut, n.d., vol. 4, p. 246. According to Schacht, "The statement of Khatib Baghdadi, that Abu Yusuf was the first to compose books on the theory Of law on the basis of the doctrine of Abu Hanifah, is not confirmed by the old sources". "The Origins of Muhammadan Jurisprudence", Oxford, 1929, p. 133.
  3. Ibn al-Nadim, al-Fihrist (2 vols.), London, 1970, vol. 1, p. 506.
  4. Shafi’i, al-Risalah, Cairo, 1358/1939.
  5. Saidullah Qazi, Principles of Muslim Jurisprudence, Lahore, 1981, p.2; al-Karakhi's Usul is published as a supplement to al-Dabusi's Tasts al-Nazar, Cairo, n.d., quoted by Shehaby, N., "'illah and Qiyas in early Islamic legal theory", J.A.O.S./, 1982, p. 27.
  6. Khudari, Usul al-fiqh, Beirut, 1969, p. 10.
  7. Sarakhsi, Usul (2 vol.), Haiderabad, 1372/1952, vol. 2, pp. 53-8.
  8. Zaid, M., al-Naskh fi’l Qur’an al-Karim (2 vols.), Cairo, 1383/1963, vol. 1, p. 82.
  9. Usul al-Jassas (Manuscript Dar al-Kutub al-Misriyya, Cairo), fol. 139b.
  10. Abu Yusuf, Kitab al-Athar, Haiderabad, 1355/1936, p. 14; Jassas, Ahkam, vol. 2, p. 425.
  11. Shaybani, Kitab al-Siyar al-Kabir, ed., M. Khadduri, Maryland, 1966, p. 94.
  12. A. Rippen, Naskh al-Quran and the problem of early Tafsir Texts, Bulletin, S.O.A.S. Nov. 1984, p. 25; Malik, Muwa'tta’, vol. 1, p. 299, vol. 2, p. 765.
  13. Hamadhani, Al-I’tibar Matba'al-Andulus, Hims, 1386/1986, p. 50.
  14. Ibid.
  15. Usul al-Jassas, fol. 115a..
  16. Ibid.
  17. Al-Risalah, p. 106.
  18. Usu1 al-Jassas, fol. 152a.
  19. Ghazzali, Mustafa (2 vols.), Bulaq, 1322/1904, vol. 2, p. 125. Also see Tabari's Tafsir on al-Qur'an, II:106.
  20. Usul al-Jassas, fol. 127b.
  21. Usul, vol. 2, p. 81.
  22. Tafsir, vol. 7, p. 30.
  23. Usul al-Jassas, fol.143a.
  24. Usul, vol. 2, p. 12.
  25. I’tibar, p. 6.

I have not managed to digest all of this, but I think the point is that circumstances determine when the rules in Quran apply and when they do not. And we know this because The Prophet sometimes did not apply the rules? Is that right?
 
If that were true, we would be seeing all devout Muslims behaving with violence toward all non-Muslims on a daily basis. On a far, far greater scale than we do now. I do not see this taking place. Furthermore, I have never personally met or known a violent Muslim.

Because you have never met one does not mean that there are none.

From the Quran, Sura 4:34
"Husbands should take full care of their wives, with [the bounties] God has given to some more than others and with what they spend out of their own money. Righteous wives are devout and guard what God would have them guard in the husbands’ absence. If you fear high-handedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great"
 
I have not managed to digest all of this, but I think the point is that circumstances determine when the rules in Quran apply and when they do not. And we know this because The Prophet sometimes did not apply the rules? Is that right?

Domestic violence sits at the heart of early Islam—in the life of Muhammad and his Quran. Islam is therefore not the religion of peace.
 
Have you encountered any violent Muslims?
Anyone reading this - have you?

YES! More than one I may also add.

If you take a trip to a Muslim country you will see it first hand my friend and then you will know.

Go to Pakistan, stand on the corner street and say the name Jesus Christ our loud and you will see the face of hate and violence very quickly.
You will also see the inside of a jail cell for awhile.
 
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