I agree in part...but one must judge each individual and each case according to how a minister is led of the Spirit. And God builds up his ministers so that He might work through them, and manifest those things that others are not called to. Not everyone is called to a healing ministry, God has called certain ministers to heal and it is an act of humility to go to the elders upon which God acts in His Grace. Some of this thought about "faith" is correct but some of it is based upon pride. Now I can stand upon the Word and be in pride, which I have done in the past. But going for help is the Word and humility is the Word. Not just those promises that declare a certain truth. Its all the truth and it all works together in love to edify and build the body.
Are Young Elders Scriptural?
- Thread starter KingJ
- Start date
MichaelH
Inactive
I am not opposed to people getting help. I am opposed to people having to be God for them. As I told me kids, Daddy can't pray to make the sickness go away. I will agree with you but you are old enough now to know God and trust in him.
There is a saying about feed a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime.
I only Go to God, I don't go to others. I ask God, money, healing, Wisdom, whatever. I have no other source. I am not opposed to people using Government programs that are in place to help, That is why they are there.You should not hound Aunt tilda for money constantly.
You need to know what to do? It says Ask God who gives wisdom to all men.
Now I had asked the Lord something and was seeking direction. I thought I had it, but God is faithful. He sent one of my Sisters over and she said she had a Word for me. It confirmed what I was asking.
It's not pride, it's understanding who your source really is.
well that just "part" of the truth, there is much more to be understood and all things work according to love. It very well could be that a believer who has been under false teaching needs 20 years to come to the truth. Or they could grasp it almost without effort. Each individual should be dealt with according to the Spirit, to make blanket statements about how they need to do this or that is just not a effective way to minister. It causes more harm than good in many cases.
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The man came to you, personally, and you know that person: you seemed to be closer than anyone else. So your advice was to
go to God, ask God for help anr to give him scriptures, and you would agree with the Word that was conformed to God's will.
That sounds pretty straightforward to me. Of course, you know, that there are those that want to be the spiritual source for everyone, and desire for men to seek them. That's what Paul warned about: the grievous wolves coming in and "...not sparing
the flock." They sound as if they are acting on bahalf of the flock, but are really just lusting after them.
The Ministry is called "...for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, and for the edifying of the body of Christ."
How can the saints be perfected, unless they know how to work the ministry; or taught how to work the ministry, unless they are edified; or edified, unless the Word is preached?
Stay strong in the Lord, Beloved.
I know the work of the Spirit that it took in me to grab hold of the truth and stand, it was not some WOF teacher trying to force doctrines on me.. it was a life lived out in the presence of God, and a day by day battle to believe His promises. Even in this I know that if need be? I must be humble enough to go to other believers in the places of grace that God has established. Its not wrong to ask for help, its right..and to make it appear that way is not helping some be delivered from their bondage. There is a balance to these truths and a understanding of Gods compassion that goes beyond these doctrines taught in the WOF circles.
Kenneth Hagin warned ministers in the WOF, and presented the true Gospel to them: I don't see that any of them received his word: for they and their followers (even those who left the WOF) seem to be doing the sames things...business as usual,
MichaelH
Inactive
If the Lord Says something to me, then I do that about someone. I am not sure what you mean about blanket statements.
Someone comes and says........ Pray for me, my world is coming to and end, ughhhhhhhhh.
I say, NO, go get one scripture that says your world is not coming to an end and then we can talk.
What!!! You don't care, bye.
I can't care more about someone's problem than they do, I can only care as much as they do. What they should have said is help me find a scripture, I'll do what you ask. Not many understand the Power of God's word.
Just like the Doctor that says go get these medications, and they wait? You can't do something, it will cost me money? Forget that.
Wife and I just talking about this type of thing today:
She teaches faith, and healing but 2 years ago, she got Kidney stones real bad. Now I have not seen someone in so much pain, I mean she just laid in bed, not moving. She told me that the pain was so great, at times she felt like passing out.
I said what do you believe? She said I know God heals...........
She suffered big time that whole week, and finally had started to talk about going to the hospital. No issue, wherever your faith is at.
Now I went to the Lord, and said Lord you know the situation What do I do. The Lord told me, that He will take care of it.
Now it's one thing to talk about faith and healing, it's another to have to stand on what you believe when in so much pain. The wife just wanted the pain to go away and she figured going to the Hospital was the best option at that point and believe God.
I knew the Lord said she did not need to go, that He would take care of it.
Now................................. I was not very comforting she says, but I did go to the Lord and got her answer. I did not want to go crosswise with the Lord but she was just crying and in great pain. Finally I said Lord, She is not there and he said take her.
So I take her and she goes and gets all these test. Find out the Kidney stones were pretty bad and she need surgery right away. She was there all day getting test. Now she is still believing God.
She is laying there though and falls asleep, she has a dream where they are operating on her and she is saying, no this is wrong, your not suppose to cut me no, I should not be here.
She gets up and decides to go back home. She puts some Word on and she put one headphone to her belly to give her body the Word (Don't ask, I don't know)
Suddenly she starts passing all these stones, I mean lots of them. Completely healed. She said she realized she talked faith but really did not know what it was to have to stand in so much pain.
I get the blame because she said I could have been far more comforting through the whole thing, she still is mad about that but If God says he will take care of it, good enough for me.
I understand what your saying, she just rehashed the whole thing again and her disappointed in me for not babying her.
I learned something.
In my opinion, if someone has a deep and extensive knowledge of scripture, is very spiritually connected with Christ, and is a strong moral person, the time that person has been alive makes little difference.
I say little because age does bring wisdom and experience, but age itself doesn't make you qualified to be a church elder.
I'd say 33 isn't too young, Jesus himself taught when he was around that age. Now if he was 25, I'd probably be weary.
I say little because age does bring wisdom and experience, but age itself doesn't make you qualified to be a church elder.
I'd say 33 isn't too young, Jesus himself taught when he was around that age. Now if he was 25, I'd probably be weary.
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Very good, Beloved.
If you can receive this: The extent of a person's faith is in direct proportion to his obedience.
Anyone can say they believe: true faith corresponds to obedience; true faith and obedience, to power.
Thanks for that verse!
Now I need only help all grasp that 30 years old back then = minimum 40 today. 30 year olds today are still kids. We play video games, stay with parents and get married late.
How many here will accept maritial advice from a 30 year old? I have been studying the word properly since age 17 and pass all the requirements for being an elder....but I know I am no elder. I am a good preacher at best. An elder = overseer = buck ends with = mature = everyone in church can respect = Christian for 10-20 years = grey hair.
Grey hair and respected Christian for 10-20 years must be essentials to the post!
Jesus was God, He qualified to be an elder at 5.
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Jesus as God...qualified at 5...is a whole new topic.
I think Paul's advice to Timothy for appointing deacons is good for elders also: "let them first be tested" (1 Tim. 3:10). Christians mature at different rates; some due to how much they strive for maturity, and others just due to their makeup.
It is interesting to me that the New Testament qualifications for elders does not focus on scripture knowledge (which I view as an essential), but on personal spiritual maturity. This is what the "testing" Paul mentioned is about. I have known older Christians who have professional training, are experts in the Bible (including original languages), and have a good looking resume from their many years leading churches. Yet, I wouldn't choose them all of them as elders because of lack of maturity in certain essential areas (i.e. temper problems, pride, control-issues, etc.).
Age is a good thing in that it allows for maturity over time. If I had to make a choice between two equally qualified believers to be an elder, I would choose the older. But being an elder should not be limited to being above a certain age. The Holy Spirit fills younger men, too.
It is interesting to me that the New Testament qualifications for elders does not focus on scripture knowledge (which I view as an essential), but on personal spiritual maturity. This is what the "testing" Paul mentioned is about. I have known older Christians who have professional training, are experts in the Bible (including original languages), and have a good looking resume from their many years leading churches. Yet, I wouldn't choose them all of them as elders because of lack of maturity in certain essential areas (i.e. temper problems, pride, control-issues, etc.).
Age is a good thing in that it allows for maturity over time. If I had to make a choice between two equally qualified believers to be an elder, I would choose the older. But being an elder should not be limited to being above a certain age. The Holy Spirit fills younger men, too.
Good insights my brother, and I agree with you.
Sometimes, the assembly being small and needing leadership, or maybe it has a majority of elderly women, may be forced into electing an elder or deacon who is young. I understand that but in my opinion it should be the last resort.
A young man may very well be a wonderful leader in business and worldly things, but that does not make him qualified to set the standard in his local church. Things such as love, compassion, discernment all become better with age and experience.
As you correctly stated........
" Also, I'm sure most of us will have witnessed the tragic phenomenon of a young, seemingly mature Christian becoming ruined after being handed a position of authority before they were ready for it."
That is absolutely correct!!! Even though it is a position in church it brings with it a certain amount of power.
Power in the hands of a young man can corrupt him eternally.
One who walks consistently in the Spirit of God at 21 is far better than 100 with life experience at 75. Life experience may teach one to submit to God, but when one is walking in God's Spirit consistently one is fully submitted to God because they know these things from God life and truth moment to moment, not from past experience.What's your view?
A good friend of mine was made an elder at his church recently. I am happy for him. But .....he is 33.
So, I was looking through scripture on qualifications for elders mentioning / suggesting age and found nothing (apart from elders = elders).
It's a joke imho. It should be a clear-cut rule in Christianity that elders cannot be younger then 45 / 50. Elders = elders = older people = 45 plus. I guess the question is what respected church would appoint young elders?
Youth = youth = inevitable mistakes / naivety. Elder > 50 > evangelist / apostle.
Some applicable verses so you don't need to hunt them.
1 Tim 3:1-7 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church?
Titus 1:5-9 This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you— if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. For an overseer, as God's steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined. He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.
1 Tim 4:12 Let no one despise you for your youth, but set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity
1 Tim 5:1 Do not rebuke an older man but encourage him as you would a father, younger men as brothers,
This is because humility towards God combined with walking in God's Spirit is far more important than age. Look at Moses, even though he didn't feel qualified and Aaron was then used as well, God still used Moses because Moses was humble and really had his heart for God, even when he made God's anger burn. God knew of the love of Moses for him. Someone whose heart is for God hears God because they love him and want to hear him and love what he says.
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"Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil."
The novice might expect himself to be perfect in his walk as a Minister, and when he falls short of perfection (which we all do) the devil will take advantage to accuse him and convince him that he is condemned. It always takes the novice a little longer to "get over it", and take the reins of his profession in Christ.
My daugther, 21 years old, people always just stop and listen to her. She has so much power from the Spirit that they know she is speaking truth. It is speaking from God's truth in power that people know it's truth, not from speaking scripture without power. Without power the words don't impact well, if at all even if scriptural. With power from God's Spirit, the words are life changing.
Amen...
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Remember that Timothy was already an elder and in the Ministry: "...do the work of an Evangelist...". I would have to assume that Timothy was at least thirty years old, seeing that the Apostle Paul wanted a good testimony before the Jews, to whom he
first preached the Gospel.