Baptism - Private Or Part Of A Church Service?

[MMurphy]

I think what many people don't understand is that the sacrament of confirmation proceeds baptism as a more intellectual acceptance of Christ. Granted, Protestants don't really recognize sacraments, but baptism was never really applied as a means of intellectual assent but as a faithful surrender to have sins washed away.

You can combine confirmation and baptism but you do not necessarily need to. Baptism just means you submit to Christ and accept His sacrifice and an infant can do this with its parent's consent, just like circumcision.

 

[JamesJohn]

You can combine confirmation and baptism but you do not necessarily need to. Baptism just means you submit to Christ and accept His sacrifice and an infant can do this with its parent's consent, just like circumcision.

Where is that in scripture, please?

 

[PeaceLikeaRiver]

It didn't ever include infants as one must repent and profess faith to submit to baptism.

But again, you're looking at baptism as something you profess and not as something done to remove original sin.

I'm not asking you believe the other side, simply acknowledge that there IS another side. And in fact, most Christians baptize infants.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

Including infants is a human invention, and is not taught anywhere in scripture.

Is what you said taught in scriptures, or could what you said itself be a human invention?

 

[LysanderShapiro]

--

 

[MMurphy]

Where is that in scripture, please?

It is part of Christian tradition which Paul commands us to follow.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

I suspect we are about to get into the discussion of Sola Scriptura and Church authority.

It will get exhausting.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

I think we've debated these things about a million times, I don't know if I want to do it again. If anyone is curious and wants to discuss one on one, you are more than welcome to start a one-on-one conversation with me

 

[MMurphy]

I suspect we are about to get into the discussion of Sola Scriptura and Church authority.

It will get exhausting.

True, let's keep it on baptism alone.

Correct me if I'm wrong Lysander, but is confirmation essentially holy spirit baptism?

 

[JamesJohn]

But again, you're looking at baptism as something you profess and not as something done to remove original sin.

I'm not asking you believe the other side, simply acknowledge that there IS another side. And in fact, most Christians baptize infants.

I look at it according to scripture. Baptism doesn't cleanse us of sin.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

True, let's keep it on baptism alone.

Correct me if I'm wrong Lysander, but is confirmation essentially holy spirit baptism?

That's a good question. It may be, though I'm inclined to say it's our repentance. Though confirmation is our reception into His Church. As you know, the very first thing we must do is repent and believe.

 

[JamesJohn]

It is part of Christian tradition which Paul commands us to follow.

Scripture, please?

 

[PeaceLikeaRiver]

Scripture, please?

Given that it's Christian tradition there wouldn't be scripture involved. Not all Christians believe in Sola Scriptura.

 

[PeaceLikeaRiver]

I look at it according to scripture. Baptism doesn't cleanse us of sin.

And isn't it just possible you are misunderstanding the scripture? Considering the vast majority of Christians disagree with you?

 

[LysanderShapiro]

Scripture, please?

2 Thessalonians 2:15: So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

2 Timothy 2:2: The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

1 Timothy 3:15: but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth.

John 20:21-23: So Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”

Each of these verses are passages that support Church Authority, not in conflict to the Scriptures, but complimenting one another -- the Church is an extension of God's Word. And we have to conclude this as it was also Church authority, which is a vehicle of the Holy Spirit, that canonized the Bible and knew which books were truly inspired by God and which weren't. Whoever accepts the Bible as truly God-breathed has to accept the ability of the Holy Spirit to worth through the bishops that canonized them.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

Now before we make this yet another discussion on Church authority, let's stick to the subject of baptism.

 

[JamesJohn]

And isn't it just possible you are misunderstanding the scripture? Considering the vast majority of Christians disagree with you?

No, I am not misunderstanding scripture. Aren't you? Do you discount its importance to our faith?

 

[JamesJohn]

2 Thessalonians 2:15: So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

2 Timothy 2:2: The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

1 Timothy 3:15: but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth.

John 20:21-23: So Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”

Each of these verses are passages that support Church Authority, not in conflict to the Scriptures, but complimenting one another -- the Church is an extension of God's Word. And we have to conclude this as it was also Church authority, which is a vehicle of the Holy Spirit, that canonized the Bible and knew which books were truly inspired by God and which weren't. Whoever accepts the Bible as truly God-breathed has to accept the ability of the Holy Spirit to worth through the bishops that canonized them.

I see no vital teaching on the baptism of babies, there.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

I see no vital teaching on the baptism of babies, there.

I thought you were asking about Church authority passages.

 

[PeaceLikeaRiver]

No, I am not misunderstanding scripture. Aren't you? Do you discount its importance to our faith?

Not at all, but I think you are misunderstanding it.