Capital punishment.

Jul 25, 2013
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This is a heavier topic than I think we even realize sometimes, and I genuinely think there can be merit to both sides of the discussion..."can" being the keyword. I've also heard arguments very poor arguments from each side.

I'd love to hear each perspective on how you all feel in regards to capital punishment -- whether it is a just act or always unjust.

Remember, be charitable, responsible, and thoughtful when discussing.
 

Glomung

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Dec 26, 2007
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It's a complex issue.
As far as a state having the justification to execute members of the population who commit heinous crimes - it does.
There is no shortage of people who are a threat to everyone they meet, and that cannot in good conscience be free to harass society.
Whether it is reasonable to spend the enormous sums necessary to house and feed these people is one question that is rareley addressed.
At the same time, due to our legal system a death penalty trial also costs an exorbitant amount. You will note that societies that do not have the resources
to try or jail these types of criminals usually just kill them out of necessity.
Then there is alos the issue of false convictions of the innocent. In the news today there was a report of 4 men getting off death row and released due
to false confessions delivered under torture by a corrupt police department.

So if we can determin that the accused is actually guilty, and that the accused is unredeemable, then the death penalty is most certainly justified.
Bu that is often a very tall order.
 
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Jul 25, 2013
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It's a complex issue.
As far as a state having the justification to execute members of the population who commit heinous crimes - it does.
There is no shortage of people who are a threat to everyone they meet, and that cannot in good conscience be free to harass society.
Whether it is reasonable to spend the enormous sums necessary to house and feed these people is one question that is rareley addressed.
At the same time, due to our legal system a death penalty trial also costs an exorbitant amount. You will note that societies that do not have the resources
to try or jail these types of criminals usually just kill them out of necessity.
Then there is alos the issue of false convictions of the innocent. In the news today there was a report of 4 men getting off death row and released due
to false confessions delivered under torture by a corrupt police department.

So if we can determin that the accused is actually guilty, and that the accused is unredeemable, then the death penalty is most certainly justified.
Bu that is often a very tall order.
I think, for the most part, you and I not only have a very strong agreement, but also have concerns with each side, at least in the modern approach.

Capital punishment is a just punishment in itself when it is applied to a capital offense. How it is applied, I think, should be done with very strict evaluation...while I suspect that is the reasoning behind the State when they do it, they have brought innocent men to execution too, which is also a problem.

You're also right about the costly affect of having a system that holds so many prisoners, but the cost of execution, today anyway, is extremely costly. In fact, it is more costly to execute someone someone than to hold him in prison for 40 years (because of the hearing and lawyer expenses along with the materials often used and the labor along with it).

I think you're on the ball, Glomung.
 
Dec 19, 2014
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I read a book of confessions from a prison chaplain in america once. He wrote about the executions. If can recall the author, will post it. It was harrowing.
We dont have it in nz, but used to.

Since we christians, the most unjust trial of all was the one Jesus had to go through. He was innocent.
Pilate washed his hands of him.
 
Jul 25, 2013
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At least nobody gets crucified anymore..or hanged. That I know of.
Crucifixion was always intended to go beyond capital punishment because it intended to stack humiliation and suffering on top of death.

Hangings, I think for its time, were attempted to be one of the more dignified approaches since instant death while keeping the whole body in one piece was the point. Of course society has gone beyond it since flaws are found in it and the point was to find a way of making it less flawed.

I know that death by the guillotine continued in France up until about 1978.
 

Glomung

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Dec 26, 2007
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I like what Gandalf said here (0-1:33)
I assume you mean:
“Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.”

You will remember that Gandalf carried a sword, and often used it.
 
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Regarding crucifixtion, hanging, and beheading - doesn't Daesh (isis) still use these methods?

Whenever I hear that someone is murdered, these days, I worry that they did not have the time to find God. When someone dies - they are all served an eternal sentence. I mostly go back and forth about capital punishment - I worked in law enforcement for 25+ years. No one dies as quickly as a murder victim - the murderer is given time to repent. The innocent, wrongly convicted, have time to know God. I don't know that I could deal out a capital punishment sentence. I liked, very much Robine's post. We don't always know what part will be played by anyone. Gollum, by greed and longing, saved Frodo's life and their world.
 
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I assume you mean:
“Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.”

You will remember that Gandalf carried a sword, and often used it.
Yes. I know that he carried a sword. He was in war. I still like it :)
 

Glomung

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Perhaps a more clear-cut question is is capital punishment murder by default or a just form of killing.
The law is "thou shalt do no murder". Capitol punishment can be construed as killing in self defense. especially with a criminal guilty of murder.
 
Jul 25, 2013
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The law is "thou shalt do no murder". Capitol punishment can be construed as killing in self defense. especially with a criminal guilty of murder.
Precisely -- this is why I can't claim capitol punishment (I just noticed I continued to call it capitAl*) as murder if it is just. I'm speaking broadly of course since I think capitol punishment can be sentenced unjustly.
 
Feb 2, 2014
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Capital punishment is only for the government to execute judgement unless we abide by the vengeance laws, which I do not believe any country allows, including Israel.

Word clarification:
As a noun, capital refers to (1) a city that serves as a center of government, (2) wealth in the form of money or property, and (3) a capital letter. As an adjective, it means (1) principal, (2) involving financial assets, and (3) deserving of the death penalty. There are other definitions of capital, but these are the most commonly used ones.

Capitol has two very specific definitions (outside ancient Rome): (1) a U.S. state legislature building, and (2) the U.S. Capitol building in Washington, D.C. State capitols are located in the capital cities of U.S. states, and the Capitol is located in the capital city of the U.S. If you’re not talking about any of these capitol buildings, then the word you want is probably capital.

The Capitol building located in Washington, D.C. is spelled with a capital C, but state capitol buildings ordinarily don’t have the capital C (which is not to say that some writers don’t capitalize them anyway).

http://grammarist.com/usage/capitol-capital/
 
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Dec 19, 2014
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It is hard to know if its just if the judges themselves are not righteous...as happened in the case of Jesus.
But the principal is biblical I suppose. They also had cities of refuge for people who committed crimes or offence so they could be rehabed in biblical times. Leviticus also ruled stoning to death for adulterers and rebellious ppl.

Note cain, God did not smite him after he killed his brother..he let him go. Well Cain after he did it knew it was wrong when God had a talk with him. God did put a mark on him though, and protected him from further punishment. I guess he was giving him time to get his act together...but he could have smote him and that would have been just. Instead, He had mercy.

At times we are to have mercy over justice.