Charis Has Been Banned

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Euphemia said:
I can tell by the fact that they refuse to claim their salvation joyfully, but think it humble to say they won't know until they die. God wants us to be assured of it! How on earth does a person show Christ to the world when he has no real hope?
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Consider that Catholics not only do have hope, but embrace virtue of hope possibly more so than I've experienced in my Protestant years. Am I saying Protestants don't have hope? Of course not -- but it isn't fair to suggest Catholics don't when they put such an emphasis on hope itself. It is the second of the three theological virtues that we cherish.

Our salvation is expressed with much joy.

I suspect you get distressed when you see someone who claims to be a Christian throwing in the towel so often -- I do too. You aren't alone in that feeling. Though to suggest Catholicism itself is wrong because of the misbehavior of some Catholics who have abandoned the faith is bad criteria. Wouldn't it be wrong to suggest Protestantism is wrong because of Westboro Baptist Church who claim to be a Protestant church?
 
Euphemia said:
I can tell by the fact that they refuse to claim their salvation joyfully, but think it humble to say they won't know until they die. God wants us to be assured of it! How on earth does a person show Christ to the world when he has no real hope?
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I refuse to 'claim' my salvation and am not Catholic. Calvinists and OSAS are not in the majority. Now normally that wouldn't mean anything but in Christianity it means a lot.
 
KingJ said:
I refuse to 'claim' my salvation and am not Catholic. Calvinists and OSAS are not in the majority. Now normally that wouldn't mean anything but in Christianity it means a lot.
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So, in other words, you do not joyfully "claim" the free gift offered to you?
 
KingJ said:
Many really are just ignorant. Like the second part of this article. Confessing sins to one another is scriptural. Who better then a qualified / full time / 100% devoted / abstinent from sex, priest...? At my church we approach elders / they keep a close eye.
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Yes, it's upsetting because so many see CARM as an authoritative site. Their hatred of Catholics is palpable and hugely offensive.
 
Euphemia said:
So, in other words, you do not joyfully "claim" the free gift offered to you?
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I am overwhelmed with joy and thanks for what Jesus did. But I am cautious to examine myself daily. God is good, I am not. I need to get to the airport. Salvation is the free plane ticket.

1 Cor 10:12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!
1 Cor 11:31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment.
 
LysanderShapiro said:
It is better that I just not bother with CARM. So much gets lost when this happens. We miss the joy of Christ if we get bitter.
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Well, it's strange that as a former Catholic I feel the need to defend Catholics so often in the face of persecution from other branches of Christianity - I think I do so because I can't believe the arrogance involved. To tell people who are among the oldest branch of Christianity that they don't UNDERSTAND Christianity makes me see red.
 
Euphemia said:
I can tell by the fact that they refuse to claim their salvation joyfully, but think it humble to say they won't know until they die. God wants us to be assured of it! How on earth does a person show Christ to the world when he has no real hope?
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That is not proof.
 
Euphemia said:
It is our job as part of the Body of Christ to offer correction using the word of God.

2 Timothy 4:2 (NLT)
Preach the word of God. Be prepared, whether the time is favorable or not. Patiently correct, rebuke, and encourage your people with good teaching.
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But this is not something you really need to correct.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
Well, it's strange that as a former Catholic I feel the need to defend Catholics so often in the face of persecution from other branches of Christianity - I think I do so because I can't believe the arrogance involved. To tell people who are among the oldest branch of Christianity that they don't UNDERSTAND Christianity makes me see red.
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My de-conversion from being one of them started when I 1. Researched 'paying money for penance / indulgences'. It never made the church rich / was for monetary gain. It is assumed. and 2. Researched the saints. I assumed they were idolized. They are not. They are respected. Nothing wrong with that.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
Well, it's strange that as a former Catholic I feel the need to defend Catholics so often in the face of persecution from other branches of Christianity - I think I do so because I can't believe the arrogance involved. To tell people who are among the oldest branch of Christianity that they don't UNDERSTAND Christianity makes me see red.
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Well, I certainly appreciate you defending Catholicism.

I think many non-Catholic Christians hold concern, not out of spite, but out of love. Many Protestants here (including you in fact) do hold opposition to the Catholic Church, but continue on the truth and beauty of Christ.
 
I am quite glad that this thread has changed course. These guys publicly crying about the site are tiresome. Where is the humility in that? It is so vein.
 
KingJ said:
My de-conversion from being one of them started when I 1. Researched 'paying money for penance / indulgences'. It never made the church rich / was for monetary gain. It is assumed. and 2. Researched the saints. I assumed they were idolized. They are not. They are respected. Nothing wrong with that.
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I don't hold lots of the corruption that took place in those days against the church because at that time it was a ruling body. This is why we are are told not to mix religion with politics. Anytime someone wants to rail about the crusades or inquisition I usually just say, well, yes, this is what politics does.
 
KingJ said:
My de-conversion from being one of them started when I 1. Researched 'paying money for penance / indulgences'. It never made the church rich / was for monetary gain. It is assumed. and 2. Researched the saints. I assumed they were idolized. They are not. They are respected. Nothing wrong with that.
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That's great that you took a look around to better understand. I've noticed that when people who are sincere about just getting better understanding of Catholicism, while having many drawbacks, they come to find the concerns really aren't so bad after all -- and in fact, may even make perfect sense.

We respect the saints as they have given themselves as examples for us, as they have tried to follow Christ as the ultimate example. And even as Protestants, I remember we would look to the figures of the Bible -- the Apostles, Mary, Stephen, David, Moses, Joshua, Joseph, the woman who gave away her two last coins, etc, as examples we should lead as servants for the Lord. The saints of the Catholic Church are figures who have continued this tradition of really going head first into the life Christ wants us to lead.
 
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I was thinking long and hard as to what exactly I do disagree with Catholic's on. The only thing I considered 'worthy' of jumping on is Purgatory. But that should never come close to a heated discussion. You guys have the Maccabees that talks about it. There were no evil intentions / motivations / monetary gains from including them.

I believe Jesus puts everyone at a 'pure' T-junction of 'hell or heaven'. In theory I can certainly tolerate the idea of a Purgatory. I wish my atheist dad would go there. He is not 'evil'. He used to be very close to God.

With scripture like this James 5:20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins. Purgatory would make sense. My dad did that with me and many others.

I think Catholics are just in for a surprise. All those that feel they deserve a session in Purgatory will go straight to heaven.
 
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PeaceLikeaRiver said:
I don't hold lots of the corruption that took place in those days against the church because at that time it was a ruling body. This is why we are are told not to mix religion with politics. Anytime someone wants to rail about the crusades or inquisition I usually just say, well, yes, this is what politics does.
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Agree 100%

If anyone simply watches Joan of arc it all makes perfect sense. No army wants to go to war without God on their side. Hence religion was always / will always be dragged into wars.

As for the 'holy crusades'...I am all for them.
 
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