PeaceLikeaRiver
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No one ever said Catholics didn't hold to the authority of scripture. Where they differ with you is that they also give equal weight to two things you dismiss, namely sacred tradition and the magisterium.
Charis Has Been Banned
- Thread starter HisManySongs
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I realize that you are not speaking to me but I want you to know that I learn from the people on this site all of the time.
Not just here but many other places as well.
Indeed. Just like Protestants, Catholics believe the Bible is a book of authority. We recognize its passages, its message, and what it calls us to do because it is literally the written Word of God, and God is our authority.
Though the disagreement Catholics do have with Protestants is that the Bible is the only Word of God, meaning it is the only place where we can get God's teaching. This is why some Christians suggest if something is not in the Bible at all, whether it contradicts or not, it still ought to be rejected. Where as Catholics hold the position that the Church is also the Word of God, or an extension of it if you will. That it is a physical vehicle of God speaking to us and acting in the presence.
HisManySongs
Passed on, February 28, 2022
That's the way it was meant to be.
Nothing is equal to the word in authority. The bible does not support that.
I actually agree with you. The Word of God is really THE source of truth. Though Peace is right when he mentioned sacred tradition and the magisterium in that the Catholic position is that sacred tradition and the magisterium ARE extensions of God's Word. God speaks to us through the things He has passed down to us and through the His established Church.
I am not trying to change your mind -- just offering important tidbits for understanding.
Nothing can be added to the word of God for authority. In fact, many traditions are contradictory to the word. The magisterium is not something God has ever instituted, especially as we have the word, and most of all---JESUS!
WE ARE THE CHURCH HE IS ESTABLISHING.
I'm not trying to start a debate. I'm offering the explanation for this. I do agree nothing can be added to the Word, and the Catholic Church holds the same agreement.
If you'd like to discuss and debate, I welcome you to start a conversation with me. It might be easier that way.
Glomung
Account Closed
Actually Christ established the Church. The Church established the Bible.
You have the cart before the horse.
Indeed -- the Church compiled and canonized the Bible...and we thank God for both elements of guidance. And of course the Church had to continue to exist in order to help those who couldn't read and had no money to even buy a Bible since a Bible cost three-years wage.
Sorry, but that is just not the truth. The word of God includes the Torah, the Old Testament, which was already in effect when the Church of Jesus Christ came into being at Pentecost. God provided the epistles to the first churches and the gospels and the epistles were compiled by men deemed worthy by God to do so.
You are very right. But there were also other books written that were also deemed "scripture." It was very important for the Holy Spirit work through the bishops to recognize which books were authentically inspired by God and which weren't. It lead to the canonization and compilation of what we know as the Bible along with the dismissal of other books, like the epistles of Thomas, Judas, Enoch (in the OT), etc.
Glomung
Account Closed
Euphemia, you need to read up on Bible history.
The "Torah" and related works contained an awful lot of stuff that is not in our Bible (especially from a Protestant point of view).
What was considered to be "inspired" was determined by a bunch of essentially* Catholic Bishops (oh Heavens, say it aint so!) who were guided by the Holy Spirit to determine what was and was not to be included in the Canon.
That's not opinion, that is history.
* it was the unified church which later divided into Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox after the Photian schism.
The bible contains all truth, and I thank God for the work His chosen men have done by the power of the Holy Spirit, Himself (so as to not give men the glory) to guarantee that.
He's right. If you hold to the position that the Bible holds the truth (which I'd agree with), it means you also agree that the Holy Spirit had the ability to work through the Catholic bishops who compiled the books into what we now call the Bible. Keep in mind there wasn't a Bible until the closing of the 4th century. Scriptures? Of course. Bible? It required Church authority lead by guidance of God to bring this to fruition.
He'd work through a trained seal if He had to. It doesn't matter if they were Catholic or not. They were learned men and devoted to God, and submitted to Holy Spirit. He used them to do what He wanted done. There is no taking credit for it. God alone had the authority to render what we have now as the Holy Scriptures.
I'm only explaining the history. Like Glomung said, it's not a matter of opinion.
Though it does render a good question...of the Catholic Church is so wrong, why was this authority given to the catholic Bishops?
It was all He had to work with at the time. He needed a few good men and found them---and I thank God for them and their diligence and that they were submissive to the Holy Spirit.
PeaceLikeaRiver
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No. The Bible is every bit as "man-made" as church teachings and traditions. Did your Bible fall from heaven in a leather-bound KJV edition? Or was it put together by men, specifically the CATHOLIC CHURCH?
What do you mean it was all He had to work with?
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