Christianity and Zen

C

CapeCodder

I'm curious what others thoughts are on using both in your life? Zen focusing on bringing enlightenment to ones self and decluttering ones mind in order to do so. And Christianity where the individual is enlightened by Gods word and living in such a manner.

Zen does not worship anything, so "no false Gods" doesn't apply here, neither would the Occult because the individual is not drawing from an outside spiritual force. Everything comes from within. I've seen books on Meditating on the Scriptures, so I don't feel there's any conflict here. If one were an actual Buddhist then I would see a conflict, but that doesn't apply here.
 
Good morning, CapeCodder;

Do you enjoy Zen? If so, that's great!

Zen is not a belief system. It's something you do, like jogging, exercising or good music to get refreshed. Zen does not address the topic of God, is not agnostic, theism, or atheism.

I have heard people who enjoy Zin and later became Christians.

Personally, when we dine out I enjoy the social atmosphere while eating. That is my Zen. 😎 lol!

God bless you, CapeCodder.
 
I just left another Christian site where they look at it like Satanism, geesh, get out much? I'm done there! They better be perfect the way they judge others.
 
CapeCodder said:
I'm curious what others thoughts are on using both in your life? Zen focusing on bringing enlightenment to ones self and decluttering ones mind in order to do so. And Christianity where the individual is enlightened by Gods word and living in such a manner.

Zen does not worship anything, so "no false Gods" doesn't apply here, neither would the Occult because the individual is not drawing from an outside spiritual force. Everything comes from within. I've seen books on Meditating on the Scriptures, so I don't feel there's any conflict here. If one were an actual Buddhist then I would see a conflict, but that doesn't apply here.
Click to expand...
You pose an interesting question which actually is ...Is Zen and Christianity compatible?

Now, I am not judging you and I am not perfect. Cute as an English bulldog so beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I post a responce to yours simply as a teaching tool and nothing more.

You said.........
"Zen does not worship anything, so "no false Gods" doesn't apply here, neither would the Occult because the individual is not drawing from an outside spiritual force."

Since "you" are the one to post this info we must then assume you have a working knowledge of Zen. Now for simply a matter of conversation and not confrontation, may I say to you what I believe you already know and that is that the scholarly answer to that question is that Zen is a school of teaching from Mahayana Buddhism.

The Buddhist concept of Zen refers to a meditative state sought as a means of spiritual awakening and self-discovery.
From what you are saying it appears that you are promoting "sitting meditation" as a compatible position with the Christian faith.

Please feel free to correct me here if I have misstated your position or agenda.

I would say to you to consider the actual differences and not my opinions.

#1. Zen seeks self-enlightenment.
However, the Bible tells us that Christian prayer in contrast, seeks God’s enlightenment of the believer.
Zen Buddhism teaches one to empty the mind of all thoughts.
However, the Bible teaches us that the Christian should be filled with thoughts of God’s greatness and worship of Him.(Ps. 63:6).

#2. Zen Buddhist meditative focus is upon looking inward for inspiration and direction.
In contrast, the Bible teaches that our search for direction should be founded upon God’s Word. God instructed Joshua.
Josha 1:8 says......“Keep this Book of the Law always on your lips; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful”.
Ps. 1:2 says the “blessed man” is the one “whose delight is in the law of the LORD, and who meditates on his law day and night.”

#3. Zen Buddhist focus is upon living in the moment, being fully aware of all that is taking place in daily life.
While there is nothing wrong with being aware of one’s surroundings, it is incomplete as a means of fulfillment.
Ps, 77:12 notes a focus on remembering God’s work in the past:.......
“I will consider all your works and meditate on all your mighty deeds.”
Many passages also teach us to live with an eternal perspective, looking ahead to our future home with Christ. Paul noted,
Philippians 1:23 says......“I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far”.

Now then a question for you????

Zen Master Ruth Fuller Sasaki says.......
"Zen masters do attack the Christian’s faith in God because in Zen the very concept of God in Christianity is a delusion preventing enlightenment."

Your thoughts????
 
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CapeCodder said:
I'm curious what others thoughts are on using both in your life? Zen focusing on bringing enlightenment to ones self and decluttering ones mind in order to do so. And Christianity where the individual is enlightened by Gods word and living in such a manner.

Zen does not worship anything, so "no false Gods" doesn't apply here, neither would the Occult because the individual is not drawing from an outside spiritual force. Everything comes from within. I've seen books on Meditating on the Scriptures, so I don't feel there's any conflict here. If one were an actual Buddhist then I would see a conflict, but that doesn't apply here.
Click to expand...

What Is Zen? - Zen Studies

What is Zen? It's both something we are—our true nature expressing itself moment by moment—and something we do—a disciplined practice through which we can realize the joy of being. It is not a belief system to which one converts. There is no dogma or doctrine. Zen is the direct experience…
zenstudies.org zenstudies.org

honestly study your bible praying and focusing on your relationship will give you everything zen does. what just read on it my suggestion drop it like hot coal
 
Major said:
You pose an interesting question which actually is ...Is Zen and Christianity compatible?

Now, I am not judging you and I am not perfect. Cute as an English bulldog so beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I post a responce to yours simply as a teaching tool and nothing more.

You said.........
"Zen does not worship anything, so "no false Gods" doesn't apply here, neither would the Occult because the individual is not drawing from an outside spiritual force."

Since "you" are the one to post this info we must then assume you have a working knowledge of Zen. Now for simply a matter of conversation and not confrontation, may I say to you what I believe you already know and that is that the scholarly answer to that question is that Zen is a school of teaching from Mahayana Buddhism.

The Buddhist concept of Zen refers to a meditative state sought as a means of spiritual awakening and self-discovery.
From what you are saying it appears that you are promoting "sitting meditation" as a compatible position with the Christian faith.

Please feel free to correct me here if I have misstated your position or agenda.

I would say to you to consider the actual differences and not my opinions.

#1. Zen seeks self-enlightenment.
However, the Bible tells us that Christian prayer in contrast, seeks God’s enlightenment of the believer.
Zen Buddhism teaches one to empty the mind of all thoughts.
However, the Bible teaches us that the Christian should be filled with thoughts of God’s greatness and worship of Him.(Ps. 63:6).

#2. Zen Buddhist meditative focus is upon looking inward for inspiration and direction.
In contrast, the Bible teaches that our search for direction should be founded upon God’s Word. God instructed Joshua.
Josha 1:8 says......“Keep this Book of the Law always on your lips; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful”.
Ps. 1:2 says the “blessed man” is the one “whose delight is in the law of the LORD, and who meditates on his law day and night.”

#3. Zen Buddhist focus is upon living in the moment, being fully aware of all that is taking place in daily life.
While there is nothing wrong with being aware of one’s surroundings, it is incomplete as a means of fulfillment.
Ps, 77:12 notes a focus on remembering God’s work in the past:.......
“I will consider all your works and meditate on all your mighty deeds.”
Many passages also teach us to live with an eternal perspective, looking ahead to our future home with Christ. Paul noted,
Philippians 1:23 says......“I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far”.

Now then a question for you????

Zen Master Ruth Fuller Sasaki says.......
"Zen masters do attack the Christian’s faith in God because in Zen the very concept of God in Christianity is a delusion preventing enlightenment."

Your thoughts????
Click to expand...
I think your mind and heart has to be right before you can even attempt to follow God. Whatever works for any given individual is fine in my book. Christianity is a form of Spirituality, and if Zen is a catalyst to help you relax and focus on your true goal (following God) then what's wrong with that? Your quotes mention Buddhism, I'm simply referring to Zen, you don't have to follow Buddhism to be a Zen practitioner. The focus is on meditation and intuition, nothing there that goes against Gods word.

I'll add that happiness is found within, all the bible reading and church visits will not provide you with happiness. That's found within whether by means of Zen or something more simple. It's a very challenging world and many seek forms of enlightenment that simple words cannot provide. Literal Scripture interpretations don't do it for me, neither do progressive Christian views. I wish Scriptures magically made me happy, they in fact don't.
 
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bobinfaith said:
Good morning, CapeCodder;

Do you enjoy Zen? If so, that's great! Zen is not a belief system. It's something you do, like jogging, exercising or good music to get refreshed. Zen does not address the topic of God, is not agnostic, theism, or atheism. I have heard people who enjoy Zin and later became Christians. Personally, when we dine out I enjoy the social atmosphere while eating. That is my Zen. 😎 lol!
God bless you, CapeCodder.
Click to expand...

CapeCodder said:
I think your mind and heart has to be right before you can even attempt to follow God. Whatever works for any given individual is fine in my book. Christianity is a form of Spirituality, and if Zen is a catalyst to help you relax and focus on your true goal (following God) then what's wrong with that? Your quotes mention Buddhism, I'm simply referring to Zen, you don't have to follow Buddhism to be a Zen practitioner. The focus is on meditation and intuition, nothing there that goes against Gods word. I'll add that happiness is found within, all the bible reading and church visits will not provide you with happiness. That's found within whether by means of Zen or something more simple. It's a very challenging world and many seek forms of enlightenment that simple words cannot provide. Literal Scripture interpretations don't do it for me, neither do progressive Christian views. I wish Scriptures magically made me happy, they in fact don't.
Click to expand...

Hello CapeCodder;

It's important to pay heed to the other two Pastors and their convictions regarding Zen. What they are conveying is if Zen leads you to worship Buddhism or other forms that replaces God, then we all have a serious concern. Exodus 20:3-4 is very adamant about who our lone God is and worship.

As a Pastor I also get these kinds of questions but I regard Zen as not a belief worship system but something you do, like jogging, tennis, exercising, good music to get refreshed.

Personally, as far as the challenging ways of the world, the Bible and application is my "zen." When God speaks to me and I spend a lot of time in Scripture, He is my comfort, joy and I sleep good at night.

God bless you, CapeCodder.
 
CapeCodder said:
I'll add that happiness is found within, all the bible reading and church visits will not provide you with happiness.
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i beg to differ with you.

Romans 14:17
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.


Nehemiah 8:10



​

10 Then he said unto them, Go your way, eat the fat, and drink the sweet, and send portions unto them for whom nothing is prepared: for this day is holy unto our Lord: neither be ye sorry; (for the joy of the Lord is your strength.)
zen is carnal
​
 
This is a very interesting discussion... and one that is most prevalent in this day and age.
We live in a world where anxiety and mental illnesses of all kinds are manifesting in all kinds of ways.
I have seen and heard many of these "practices" being hailed as HEALING and BENEFICIAL.

The problem with these practices ( in my opinion ) is that most if not all lead to SELF SUFFICIENCY... SELF DISCIPLINE and simply SELF.

"Calming the mind" so that one can live in peaceful state is something that we indeed need to learn. I call it shutting out the NOISE of the world. This is reached by TRUSTING GOD. Meditation in true form is contemplating and pondering on WHO GOD IS. The destination of meditation always NEEDS to remain "finding PEACE in GOD".

God has created such BEAUTY for His creation to enjoy. We have nature to behold in all its glory. Sitting at the lake front as I often do during the summer months is enough to CONVINCE me that GOD is MAGNIFICENT... GLORIOUS and MAJESTIC. Those thoughts are what brings me peace.

Anything other than this practice for a Christian is a dangerous and slippery slope ( in my opinion ).
 
In Awe of Him said:
"Calming the mind" so that one can live in peaceful state is something that we indeed need to learn. I call it shutting out the NOISE of the world. This is reached by TRUSTING GOD. Meditation in true form is contemplating and pondering on WHO GOD IS. The destination of meditation always NEEDS to remain "finding PEACE in GOD".
Click to expand...
Well said! I agree completely.
 
There are many books out there on meditating on Gods word, this isn't considered New Age stuff. Meditation is simply a way of de-cluttering your mind. I don't feel there's a danger of leading you to Buddhism. Especially if you're not studying Buddhism 😉
 
CapeCodder said:
There are many books out there on meditating on Gods word, this isn't considered New Age stuff. Meditation is simply a way of de-cluttering your mind. I don't feel there's a danger of leading you to Buddhism. Especially if you're not studying Buddhism
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Good morning CapeCodder ... my concern regarding meditation is NOT the biblical kind. My concern is that these mystical practices refer to SELF... "self awareness... self-esteem... self affirmation... self reliance... self healing". This is NOT biblical and I truly believe it is a dangerous practice that sneakily ( Is that a word?? HA ) leads to separating ourselves from God. That is simply an opinion I have formed. I think often times the argument is falsely had because of the disclaimer that this is NOT about Buddhism.... It's not about that... It's about relying on one's own self rather than bringing one to God.

I will once again state that true meditation is about GOD's attributes. If we focus on God's many I AM's... then our meditation leads us to true worship and true peace that has NOTHING to do with ourselves.

God bless you.
 
CapeCodder said:
There are many books out there on meditating on Gods word, this isn't considered New Age stuff. Meditation is simply a way of de-cluttering your mind. I don't feel there's a danger of leading you to Buddhism. Especially if you're not studying Buddhism 😉
Click to expand...
There is nothing wrong with meditation. It is good for the body and the spirit. You asked about zen (which is from buddhism) not meditation. I know it seems like the same thing, but, with zen even the way you set your furniture is said to have an effect. Keep your meditation GOD centered and you will be ok.
 
Dave F. said:
There is nothing wrong with meditation. It is good for the body and the spirit. You asked about zen (which is from buddhism) not meditation. I know it seems like the same thing, but, with zen even the way you set your furniture is said to have an effect. Keep your meditation GOD centered and you will be ok.
Click to expand...
He said it better than me. HA.
 
CapeCodder said:
I think your mind and heart has to be right before you can even attempt to follow God. Whatever works for any given individual is fine in my book. Christianity is a form of Spirituality, and if Zen is a catalyst to help you relax and focus on your true goal (following God) then what's wrong with that? Your quotes mention Buddhism, I'm simply referring to Zen, you don't have to follow Buddhism to be a Zen practitioner. The focus is on meditation and intuition, nothing there that goes against Gods word.

I'll add that happiness is found within, all the bible reading and church visits will not provide you with happiness. That's found within whether by means of Zen or something more simple. It's a very challenging world and many seek forms of enlightenment that simple words cannot provide. Literal Scripture interpretations don't do it for me, neither do progressive Christian views. I wish Scriptures magically made me happy, they in fact don't.
Click to expand...
I realize that you are coming from your own personal world where you have convinced yourself that Buddhism is an accepted religion on par with Christianity.

My dear friend, you have completely missed the point, with all due respect. Christianity is NOT a religion or a form of spirituality!!!!!
Religion can be anything that the person practicing it desires. Spirituality, on the other hand, is defined by God. Since religion is man defined, religion is a manifestation of the flesh. But spirituality, as defined by God, is a manifestation of His nature.

On the other hand Christianity is a PERSON......Christ whose name was Jesus.

ZEN is actually a Japanese school of thought based in Mahayana Buddhism emphasizing the value of meditation and intuition.

Now, IF.......IF you made it a practice of meditating on the Literal Word of God and its meaning, it just may be that you would have a better understanding instead of "emptying your mind" of thought so as to be calm.

Psalm 104:34 ......."May my meditation be pleasing to him, for I rejoice in the Lord."
1 Timothy 4:15 ...."Practice these things, immerse yourself in them, so that all may see your progress."
Genesis 24:63 ......"And Isaac went out to meditate in the field toward evening. And he lifted up his eyes and saw, and behold, there were camels coming. ...".

Then consider the literal words of God in John 14:6..."I am the way the truth and the life and NO ONE comes to the Father except by me".
 
Major said:
I realize that you are coming from your own personal world where you have convinced yourself that Buddhism is an accepted religion on par with Christianity.

My dear friend, you have completely missed the point, with all due respect. Christianity is NOT a religion or a form of spirituality!!!!!
Religion can be anything that the person practicing it desires. Spirituality, on the other hand, is defined by God. Since religion is man defined, religion is a manifestation of the flesh. But spirituality, as defined by God, is a manifestation of His nature.

On the other hand Christianity is a PERSON......Christ whose name was Jesus.

ZEN is actually a Japanese school of thought based in Mahayana Buddhism emphasizing the value of meditation and intuition.

Now, IF.......IF you made it a practice of meditating on the Literal Word of God and its meaning, it just may be that you would have a better understanding instead of "emptying your mind" of thought so as to be calm.

Psalm 104:34 ......."May my meditation be pleasing to him, for I rejoice in the Lord."
1 Timothy 4:15 ...."Practice these things, immerse yourself in them, so that all may see your progress."
Genesis 24:63 ......"And Isaac went out to meditate in the field toward evening. And he lifted up his eyes and saw, and behold, there were camels coming. ...".

Then consider the literal words of God in John 14:6..."I am the way the truth and the life and NO ONE comes to the Father except by me".
Click to expand...
You've failed to read my posts, no where did I say I was following Buddism, I was practicing Zen, two completely different things. No one "empties" their mind, they de clutter it. These days there's plenty to de clutter. Reading the scriptures alone does not do it for me, it's not magic. If that worked everyone would be doing it, prayer would replace depression medications and counseling.
 
CapeCodder said:
There are many books out there on meditating on Gods word, this isn't considered New Age stuff. Meditation is simply a way of de-cluttering your mind. I don't feel there's a danger of leading you to Buddhism. Especially if you're not studying Buddhism 😉
Click to expand...
Zen and Buddhism are not that different. Buddhism in a sense is a door into Zen. As a matter of fact there is such a thing called Zen Buddhism.
The 'clearing of the mind' so called and meditation in Zen is a practice of emptying the mind of words, concepts, logic etc., which ironically is the basis for the Christian faith, i.e. propositional truth. Our peace comes through knowing these truths Rom 5:1 (peace with God), acting upon them Phil 4:7 (peace of God), and knowing the Person Himself (Matt 11:28) and not by an impersonal human construct.
Oil and water don't mix.
 
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