Christians and Science

[aha]

I will say that the textbook big bang did not happen with 100% certainty in my heart. Evolution is observable, just not the type of evolution that the textbooks teach.

it seems to me there is a confusion (?)

The first sentence describes a position, the second sentence seems to support the first sentence(?)

First sentence mentioned BB, but the second sentence describes E?
That can be valid if BB=E... ...
....but does it, that Big Bang is the same as Evolution?

I don't think so : )

Not an evolutionist but I can consider big bang is aligned with how Genesis describes it...

that is: BB does not necessarily mean E : )

 

[Steve Campbell]

In my view, which I attempt to filter thru the sifter of Scripture, "Science" and "Religion" are two things that man has created to satisfy his own curiosity about "what it all means."

If God is Omnipotent, as we say He is, and we hold to that belief without compromise, then there must be room for His ability to Do whatever He wishes, HOWEVER he wishes.

As we (humankind) discover new and interesting clues about the origins of man, and about God himself, there are bound to be things that baffle and befuddle us.

Some are thrown off the path to God by what "science" tells us. They seem to feel that there must not BE any "God," if thus-n-such scientific finding is true.

First of all, the fact that "science" declares a discovery, and postulates an explanation, doesn't make the postulation necessarily so.

Secondly, short of Darwinian teachings (where I draw the line) there is (dare I say it) room; "room" for the possibility that God did what He did here, by any means He desires. He is "God," after all!

Is it possible that some form of evolutionary processes MIGHT have been used by God (again, short of the evolution of humans themselves; where I draw the line), to accomplish certain aspects of His Creative Power? In my own view, I think it possible.

Here's the crux of the question.........does it matter? Does it have an effect (affect?) on our Doctrine of Salvation or Reconciliation? I don' think so. I don't see any damage done to Biblical interpretation by allowing God to be "God."

Man has sought answers since the first man/woman were Created. Man has postulated forever about what this life means; life after death; the purpose of "life;" the Creator of "life." We might consider ourselves to be closer than we were 2,000 years ago to better understanding the possible answers to these questions, but..............

In the end, we won't know fully, until we have passed from this world.

I asked my Dad years ago, "Dad, suppose all the Christian "stuff" we have given our lives for, turns out NOT to be real (I was struggling at that time, with this question)? Suppose we die, and we simply 'are no more,' and that's all there is?"

His response, "Then I suppose all I can say is that it has been one HECK of a neat experience!"

Shallow? Narrow? Perhaps. But what does one say to that question? How could ANY man/woman truly address that question? Do we put stock in those random folks who say they died and "saw a bright light," to justify our belief in God and a "real" afterlife?

First we start with, "God help me!" Then we (in total and true surrender) discover that God not only answered that prayer of desperation, but also changed us in ways we didn't expect. We see the Hand of God in what He did in our hearts; our lives.

After that, we study "to show ourselves approved unto God," so that we are ready to give answer to what we believe and why we believe it. Knowing that we DON'T have all the answers, and we WON'T have all the answers until the moment after we are gone from this earth.

From time to time, I wonder about what (if anything) our forefathers are able to see from Heaven (if at all). I wonder if my predecessors are not only totally immersed in the presence of God, but are also (as my Catholic friends would say) praying for us and observing us. There's a question "I" don't have the answer to. I won't know that; YOU won't know that answer, until we are "with Him."

So..........what ABOUT the Dinosaurs? Well, I believe they existed. I believe they fit into the Creation plan. I believe God can do whatever He wants, whenever He wants, in whatever way He wants to do it.

As for the Scientists themselves? Thank God we were given minds that can reason, can inquire, can study and learn! I'm so grateful that they have been allowed by God to discover methods of medical intervention. I'm thankful that they have the ability to analyze and prove out postulations. At least to SOME degree.

-Soupy

 

[Cosmicwaffle]

Does the bible really say this ? Many preach that the written word of God say it is only 6000 years old. Does Gen, really say this ?

If we use the geneologies from Adam to Christ the Bible gives us the Earth is somewhere around 6,000-10,000 years old. The only reason scientists think it is older than that is their evolutionary bias when dating rocks and stuff. You can either have faith in their dating methods or faith in the Bible. If the Earth was really millions and billions of years old the Bible would give us very long geneaologies, as it IS the word of Truth.

 

[aha]

If we use the geneologies from Adam to Christ the Bible gives us the Earth is somewhere around 6,000-10,000 years old. The only reason scientists think it is older than that is their evolutionary bias when dating rocks and stuff. You can either have faith in their dating methods or faith in the Bible. If the Earth was really millions and billions of years old the Bible would give us very long geneaologies, as it IS the word of Truth.

say, Point A to B.... Point B to C…..

Genealogies can pertain to Point B to C….
What am trying to say:
... the last sentence of what if scenario tries to stretch Point B to C….. why not the stretch of Point A to B
what am also trying to say:
..... it is indeed a big picture and our knowledge is indeed limited: thus, I rather not quick, or not say at all: a scenario to say "either or"...

 

[Francis Drake]

Very intriguing point about the dinosaurs and the middle ages. I'm going to look into that. Can you be completely sure that the big bang is 100% false? Sorry, just trying to get a clear, 100% sure answer. Haha. It's just seeming like it is going to be a challenge for me to really believe in both. Have you ever had that problem, being a lover of science? Probably not, since you grew up in a religious household. Maybe it's just difficult for me because I'm so new to it. Thanks for your comment

Dinosaur descriptions in Job Chapter40-

15“Look at Behemoth, which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox.

16What strength it has in its loins, what power in the muscles of its belly!

17Its tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of its thighs are close-knit.

18Its bones are tubes of bronze, its limbs like rods of iron.

19It ranks first among the works of God, yet its Maker can approach it with his sword.

20The hills bring it their produce, and all the wild animals play nearby.

21Under the lotus plants it lies, hidden among the reeds in the marsh.

22The lotuses conceal it in their shadow; the poplars by the stream surround it.

23A raging river does not alarm it; it is secure, though the Jordan should surge against its mouth.

24Can anyone capture it by the eyes, or trap it and pierce its nose?

Job 41.-
1“Can you pull in Leviathan with a fishhook or tie down its tongue with a rope?

2Can you put a cord through its nose or pierce its jaw with a hook?

3Will it keep begging you for mercy? Will it speak to you with gentle words?

4Will it make an agreement with you for you to take it as your slave for life?

5Can you make a pet of it like a bird or put it on a leash for the young women in your house?

6Will traders barter for it? Will they divide it up among the merchants?

7Can you fill its hide with harpoons or its head with fishing spears?

8If you lay a hand on it, you will remember the struggle and never do it again!

9Any hope of subduing it is false; the mere sight of it is overpowering.

10No one is fierce enough to rouse it. Who then is able to stand against me?

11Who has a claim against me that I must pay? Everything under heaven belongs to me.

12“I will not fail to speak of Leviathan’s limbs, its strength and its graceful form.

13Who can strip off its outer coat? Who can penetrate its double coat of armor ?

14Who dares open the doors of its mouth, ringed about with fearsome teeth?

15Its back has rows of shields tightly sealed together;

16each is so close to the next that no air can pass between.

17They are joined fast to one another; they cling together and cannot be parted.

18Its snorting throws out flashes of light; its eyes are like the rays of dawn.

19Flames stream from its mouth; sparks of fire shoot out.

20Smoke pours from its nostrils as from a boiling pot over burning reeds.

21Its breath sets coals ablaze, and flames dart from its mouth.

22Strength resides in its neck; dismay goes before it.

23The folds of its flesh are tightly joined; they are firm and immovable.

24Its chest is hard as rock, hard as a lower millstone.

25When it rises up, the mighty are terrified; they retreat before its thrashing.

26The sword that reaches it has no effect, nor does the spear or the dart or the javelin.

27Iron it treats like straw and bronze like rotten wood.

28Arrows do not make it flee; slingstones are like chaff to it.

29A club seems to it but a piece of straw; it laughs at the rattling of the lance.

30Its undersides are jagged potsherds, leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing sledge.

31It makes the depths churn like a boiling caldron and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment.

32It leaves a glistening wake behind it; one would think the deep had white hair.

33Nothing on earth is its equal—a creature without fear.

34It looks down on all that are haughty; it is king over all that are proud.”

This demonstrates that dinosaurs were around at the same time as the bible patriarch Job, just a few thousand years ago.
Dinosaur remains are relatively recent finds, therefore there would have been no knowledge base to write such words unless from general knowledge and experience at that time.

 

[Siloam]

Miller and Behe, both Christians, have been sparring with each other for years, both in books and in speaking on TV. I don't think anyone has changed their mind.

Just to give some area for perspective, I would like to recommend

Christians in Science:
http://network.asa3.org/ which is a British site

The American version is American Science Affiliation
http://network.asa3.org/

Both those sites present science related issues from a variety of faith viewpoints.
I would say though that both were better a few years ago, but there are still interesting things at those sites.

One of the biggest things to take away is that Christians can have a discussion about these issues without terming anyone on what ever is the other side to be theologically or scientifically deficient.

Since the Answers in Genesis site was mentioned (a couple of times) I would like to point to an alternate site:

Old Earth Ministries
http://www.oldearth.org
which discusses old Earth issues and information from a Christian perspective.

 

[Juk]

So since I am new to the Christian lifestyle.. I have a few questions about the scientific side of life. I have loved science since before I even knew what science was. I have always enjoyed looking at the stars and learning about how our planet sustains life perfectly. I love looking at pictures of the universe, comets, other planets, etc. I love reading about the human body. It truly is incredible how our bodies are like a giant, very complex puzzle. Everything goes together perfectly and works together (big and very, very small) to keep us alive. There are no small jobs in our bodies or in the universe itself. I am by no means writing this to cause controversy, I am just needing some answers from my Christian friends about some things that, if answered, will strengthen my faith. Because as I said, I love science and I ALWAYS will. It is very important to me. And seeing that I am going into the medical field, I have taken numerous science courses ranging from Anatomy and Physiology to Chemistry to Microbiology.

I guess one of the things keeping me from growing in my faith is that I feel like some things might contradict themselves concerning science and religion. So I guess I will just dive right in and ask them. Please, don't be offended by what I ask. I am only asking for my own personal growth in my connection with the Lord. Some of these are just things that I have read that confuse me. So please correct me if where I have read these things are wrong. I am not claiming to be an expert in science or anything.. Just a curious newcomer to religion.. Haha

1. I have read that some creationists believe that the Earth is around 6,000 years old.. how do they believe that when there is scientific proof that the earth is older than that?

2. What do Christians think about dinosaurs? I have read some things online where some Christians say that dinos didn't even exist... that really grinds my gears considering we have physical proof of them..

3. Big Bang.. yes, I said those words on this site. I read a very interesting point not long ago somewhere (I can't remember where it was.. might have even been somewhere on this site) that the Big Bang could have been God. The Big Bang was described as an intense explosion of light. Could that have been God? "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light." Genesis, people. Haha. Yeah, I'm just saying.. I believe in science. Could the Big Bang have been our God saying let there be light?

I am sure that I have more questions, but I am trying to keep it short and sweet this time around. So let's just call this "Liz's scientific questions round one." I am really sorry if I offended anyone by asking these things. But I really just want answers. If I have answers to these questions then it may help me move on to growing my faith. But I feel like I am at a road block as of right now just because I have read proof on some of these subjects and I have been exposed to science for my entire life. Of course. Please, one thing I do ask is that no one tell me that I have no faith and just to believe in God. I have faith. I am simply just asking some educated questions. Or trying to. Please, no negative or judgmental comments.

I appreciate your answers in advance and God bless you all. I hope you're all having a great Friday night. I will spend the rest of mine doing laundry and surfing the web.

-Liz

I believe that the earth is around 6000 years old. Scientists believe that the earth is billions of years old, based on their "scientific proof". Do you also believe in evolution? As a general statement, bother with the scientific origins of the earth.

I believe that there were dinosaurs, and I believe that there were dragons (I think that satan was a dragon). They most likely were not as dangerous and scientists make them, and PROBABLY were not as big (I don't know much about the sizes of dinosaur fossils). Noah could have taken baby dinosaurs on his ark, and that is why we have dinosaur fossils. So many, at least.

The big bang... I hate those words. Those who say that God made the big bang are just "Christian" liberals, and they might be ecumenists as well. NO. GOD DID NOT CREATE THE bIG bANG. The big bang theory was created to get rid of the creation account! It is directly related to evolution. Sorry I just really get passionate when talking about evolution, Islam, and Catholicism.
PS: Just because God said, "Let there be light" doesn't mean that there was a huge burst of light. Is space like that?

Now, for my personal opinion on science. I just finished a chapter on waves in my science class, and I can say that science has ruined my life. I can explain with a seemingly unrelated story:

Whenever I like a video game, I want to get good at it. So I learn the technicalities of the game. But learning the technicalities makes the game not fun anymore, and I stop liking it.

Same thing with science. When I learned the technicalities of life according to how science puts it, it makes life suck. I wish that science was never mandatory for school.

Finally, here is an amazing Bible verse that I read, that really impacted me:
1 Timothy 6:20-21 KJV
O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: [21] Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.

Gotta read it a couple of times to get it.

 

[Abdicate]

1. I have read that some creationists believe that the Earth is around 6,000 years old.. how do they believe that when there is scientific proof that the earth is older than that?

2. What do Christians think about dinosaurs? I have read some things online where some Christians say that dinos didn't even exist... that really grinds my gears considering we have physical proof of them..

3. Big Bang.. yes, I said those words on this site. I read a very interesting point not long ago somewhere (I can't remember where it was.. might have even been somewhere on this site) that the Big Bang could have been God. The Big Bang was described as an intense explosion of light. Could that have been God? "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light." Genesis, people. Haha. Yeah, I'm just saying.. I believe in science. Could the Big Bang have been our God saying let there be light?

I love science too!! I was going to be a biochemists (until I discovered computers) and I find it so wonderfully exciting to find some truth linking the scriptures with the observed. Before I attempt to answer your questions (I've not read anyone else's so these are my own beliefs) I want to read what I wrote about a new discovery in quantum physics: http://www.christianforumsite.com/posts/409992/

Your questions: #1: When a clock is completed, it looks like that for years. We do not know all there is to know. We cannot even examine everything (dark matter/energy) but we see signs of something else. Even the article implies that the things don't appear as they seem. We make assumptions that are not always correct. Things we call "constant" may not be, such as the speed of light. There is ample observable evidence that the speed of the universe was 10,000 times faster in the past than today. So, until we have sufficient information, we'll just have to trust God.

#2: They existed. Again there is ample proof that the atmospheric pressure was twice what it is today. Plants and animals grow much bigger under those conditions. There's papers on it... look it up. Very interesting read. Again, many equate today's condition as being constant. Because of the Flood, our atmosphere is different than when under Adam and Eve. Man lived 800 times longer before the Flood.

#3: God's word is literal. Read my comments on this already here:

http://www.christianforumsite.com/t...-the-book-of-genesis.42250/page-3#post-400277
http://www.christianforumsite.com/t...-the-book-of-genesis.42250/page-3#post-403253
http://www.christianforumsite.com/t...-the-book-of-genesis.42250/page-4#post-406216

Let me know if you need more answers.

 

[Mykuhl]

I love science too!! I was going to be a biochemists (until I discovered computers) and I find it so wonderfully exciting to find some truth linking the scriptures with the observed. Before I attempt to answer your questions (I've not read anyone else's so these are my own beliefs) I want to read what I wrote about a new discovery in quantum physics: http://www.christianforumsite.com/posts/409992/

Your questions: #1: When a clock is completed, it looks like that for years. We do not know all there is to know. We cannot even examine everything (dark matter/energy) but we see signs of something else. Even the article implies that the things don't appear as they seem. We make assumptions that are not always correct. Things we call "constant" may not be, such as the speed of light. There is ample observable evidence that the speed of the universe was 10,000 times faster in the past than today. So, until we have sufficient information, we'll just have to trust God.

#2: They existed. Again there is ample proof that the atmospheric pressure was twice what it is today. Plants and animals grow much bigger under those conditions. There's papers on it... look it up. Very interesting read. Again, many equate today's condition as being constant. Because of the Flood, our atmosphere is different than when under Adam and Eve. Man lived 800 times longer before the Flood.

#3: God's word is literal. Read my comments on this already here:

http://www.christianforumsite.com/t...-the-book-of-genesis.42250/page-3#post-400277
http://www.christianforumsite.com/t...-the-book-of-genesis.42250/page-3#post-403253
http://www.christianforumsite.com/t...-the-book-of-genesis.42250/page-4#post-406216

Let me know if you need more answers.

Nice Abdicate [emoji106]. I was waiting for you to contribute to this thread [emoji2].

 

[Juk]

I love science too!! I was going to be a biochemists (until I discovered computers) and I find it so wonderfully exciting to find some truth linking the scriptures with the observed. Before I attempt to answer your questions (I've not read anyone else's so these are my own beliefs) I want to read what I wrote about a new discovery in quantum physics: http://www.christianforumsite.com/posts/409992/

Your questions: #1: When a clock is completed, it looks like that for years. We do not know all there is to know. We cannot even examine everything (dark matter/energy) but we see signs of something else. Even the article implies that the things don't appear as they seem. We make assumptions that are not always correct. Things we call "constant" may not be, such as the speed of light. There is ample observable evidence that the speed of the universe was 10,000 times faster in the past than today. So, until we have sufficient information, we'll just have to trust God.

#2: They existed. Again there is ample proof that the atmospheric pressure was twice what it is today. Plants and animals grow much bigger under those conditions. There's papers on it... look it up. Very interesting read. Again, many equate today's condition as being constant. Because of the Flood, our atmosphere is different than when under Adam and Eve. Man lived 800 times longer before the Flood.

#3: God's word is literal. Read my comments on this already here:

http://www.christianforumsite.com/t...-the-book-of-genesis.42250/page-3#post-400277
http://www.christianforumsite.com/t...-the-book-of-genesis.42250/page-3#post-403253
http://www.christianforumsite.com/t...-the-book-of-genesis.42250/page-4#post-406216

Let me know if you need more answers.

Wait, does that mean that humans were way bigger too? I thought that only the Nephilim were giants back then.

 

[Abdicate]

If we use the geneologies from Adam to Christ the Bible gives us the Earth is somewhere around 6,000-10,000 years old. The only reason scientists think it is older than that is their evolutionary bias when dating rocks and stuff. You can either have faith in their dating methods or faith in the Bible. If the Earth was really millions and billions of years old the Bible would give us very long geneaologies, as it IS the word of Truth.

According to the word of God, this year, 2015 is 5991 from Creation.

 

[Abdicate]

Nice Abdicate [emoji106]. I was waiting for you to contribute to this thread [emoji2].

thanks

 

[Abdicate]

Wait, does that mean that humans were way bigger too? I thought that only the Nephilim were giants back then.

Who knows

 

[Lanolin]

Its a lot of speculation on scientists part to think of what earth was like in the past.
We don't really know as got no time machine but we can make guesses based on what is dug up..and inferences, but I would say a lot of the evidence is in the Bible which has been preserved as a record from the beginning of time.

I just take His word for it and..everything else is just speculation. I have people saying to me they think it's fact cos this or that rock is millions of years old..but how do they really know? radio carbon dating is just giving out figures, a gap of several millions years from one rock that looks identical to another and I go, is this for real? You want me to believe that? lol. They just give estimates, I think, to make themselves look smarter than everyone else.

And besides, everyone knows dragons existed, I mean, theirs stories on how people fought them, they died out or were hunted down. dinosaurs are just ppls scientific names for dragons. in my country we had giant birds, called moas, and they were around but the Maoris hunted them all to death. Look at the size of them! Anyone who didn't know they were birds prolly looked at the bones and can be forgiven for thinking they would be dinosaurs.

 

[Abdicate]

Carbon dating requires that the radiation (Carbon-14) enters our atmosphere at a constant rate and only works on organic things like plants and animals (we're all made of carbon-12). About 1 in a trillion, that carbon atoms weighs 14 atomic units. It's decay (half life) is about 5730 years and then it turns into nitrogen. Half turns to nitrogen in 5730 years and the the other half, half of that will turn to nitrogen in 5730 years, and so on. As cosmic radiation hits the planet, 21 lbs of nitrogen is converted to carbon-14. Most of the carbon-14 quickly mixes with oxygen to create carbon dioxide, which is absorbed by plants and animals incorporating both carbon-12 and carbon-14 at the same proportion as it occurs in the atmosphere. When the living thing dies, it no longer absorbs carbon-14 and the "clock" starts ticking. That material loses half the carbon-14 in 5730 years, and half of the remaining will be lost in 5730 years, and so on and so on. This requires the assumption that the rate of absorption of carbon-14 is constant at 21 lbs per year.

What if something happened to cause carbon-14 to enter our atmosphere at a very accelerated rate or change the levels of carbon-12 on the planet? Like the flood. The fountains of the deep broke through the crust, shot up into space, gravity pulls the now frozen water back to earth, creating the north and south poles, freezing things instantly (tons of evidence of this) and changing the rate of carbon-14 entering the earth. While on earth this worldwide flood would uproot and bury preflood forests so less carbon-12 would be available. With less carbon-12 to dilute the carbon-14 that continually forms in the upper atmosphere, the ratio of carbon-12 to -14 would change the clock. Let's say the ratio quadruples and we didn't know that, the measurements we'd take of carbon-14 decay would be skewed. So if we tested a living thing, it might appear to be 11,460 years old instead of it's actual LIVING age.

Thanks to more modern techniques (that can accurately count the carbon-14 atoms), scientists have been able to test 11 of the oldest human skeletons and found everyone of them to be 5000 radiocarbon years old or less! The older something is, the less the carbon-14 is supposed to be there... the fact it was found shows definitively they are not millions of year old... now you know why they want to dump carbon-14 dating process, it proves them wrong!

 

[Juk]

According to the word of God, this year, 2015 is 5991 from Creation.

Based on that information, one can estimate that Jesus is coming back in about nine years. But that is just my speculation. Antichrist rules in two years, for seven years, making the year 6000 when Jesus comes back and sets up His Kingdom, which will last for 1000 years, making the year 7000. And seven means completion.

 

[aha]

The big bang... I hate those words...... It is directly related to evolution

Am neither into spending time knowing “young earth” nor “old earth”… neither a “BB” nor “no BB”

Am more on observing POINTS of view….

A lighted candle on a table.

A POV will be: A young man lighted the candle with safety matches.

A POV can also describe it as:
Due to friction with a rigid surface, red phosphorous ignited, transferred the flame to a wood, and the flame was transferred to a braided cotton that is kept fueled by wax.

That is all there is to it.

If one indeed to assume that BB = E, (ie: directly related) then I agree, BB is invalid as well..

because I see E=as invalid, therefore, if BB=E, then BB is invalid as well

 

[Juk]

Am neither into spending time knowing “young earth” nor “old earth”… neither a “BB” nor “no BB”

Am more on observing POINTS of view….

A lighted candle on a table.

A POV will be: A young man lighted the candle with safety matches.

A POV can also describe it as:
Due to friction with a rigid surface, red phosphorous ignited, transferred the flame to a wood, and the flame was transferred to a braided cotton that is kept fueled by wax.

That is all there is to it.

If one indeed to assume that BB = E, (ie: directly related) then I agree, BB is invalid as well..

because I see E=as invalid, therefore, if BB=E, then BB is invalid as well

I believe that BB is invalid either way.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

If we use the geneologies from Adam to Christ the Bible gives us the Earth is somewhere around 6,000-10,000 years old. The only reason scientists think it is older than that is their evolutionary bias when dating rocks and stuff. You can either have faith in their dating methods or faith in the Bible. If the Earth was really millions and billions of years old the Bible would give us very long geneaologies, as it IS the word of Truth.

Actually some who studied this pretty thorough came up with much larger numbers .
To me I could care less I mean whats a trilion years any way ? lol

 

[Arrie03]

Regarding your first 2 questions:

1. I have recently read that some scientists are starting to question the validity of carbon dating. That it may not be nearly as accurate as they assumed.

2. Lots of Christians believe lots of different things about science, unfortunately some of it is false. Christians can be just as susceptible to error as anyone else.

And these were the points I was going to raise...
I also think that the modern man thinks to much of himself, he creates a system, in this case carbon dating, and takes it as ultimate truth and will not budge from it. I also believe that carbon dating is an interpretation that is actually a false truth.
The million and billions year old theory never sat with me.
I also believe dinosaurs were real, but not as old as believed.
Nature to a large degree is as yet unexplained, what happens inside our bodies are unexplained in this modern era of ubber knowledge and super human intelligence (supposedly), then we want to believe we know what happened thousands of years ago when we were not there.
Arrogant bunch - us humans.