Hmm...that sounds pretty awesome. I appreciate the explanation. That rings truth to my spirit.
Christ's Perception Of Time
- Thread starter TParis
- Start date
Hmm...that sounds pretty awesome. I appreciate the explanation. That rings truth to my spirit.
Indeed. I thought that was the overall sentiment -- God isn't an item within time. Rather time is an item within God's creation.
MichaelH
Inactive
God and Time (My Limited understanding)
God's Foreknowledge, God's predestined Knowledge
Did God plan, or God foreknow Adam would blow it?
God's Foreknowledge, God's predestined Knowledge
Did God plan, or God foreknow Adam would blow it?
Time: Time is a byproduct of God's creation. How it's measured depends on who is measuring it. 1,000 years to us is like a day for God. There is nothing in God's environment that needs time. Nothing to plant, Nothing to reap, No day, No night. No appointments to keep.
God's Creation depends on Time: Seasons go by time, Plants are harvested by time, God set time for the incubation period of a human child. (9 months) Anything Time related was a result of the Way God made it. Man set measurements to keep track of time, which was necessary because we live in what God made and God set those time limits.
Amazing Revelation!!!
Startling Statement: God does not live outside of time, it's a product of His creation.
Can God Time Travel or change the past?
He won't, but the answer is Yes. I don't just base this on my human understanding of God, I base it on scriptures. Scripture only!!
Jesus Prayed......... Father you can do all things.
That is not a normal statement from Jesus. That sounds like a prayer of someone that knows something but is trying to get in faith to ask.
And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.
(Mar 14:36)
Daddy, Father............. The only time Jesus said this, and mentioned all things are possible to God. There was a reason.
Jesus did not want to go to the cross. He Asked his Father to change that. To you and I, it would be a simple walk away and not go. Not for Jesus, and Jesus knew exactly what He was asking God to do. This is why He said all things are possible to you.
You and I though are not mentioned in the Eternal Word of God that can not change. Jesus was. The Word of God can never be untrue and Abides forever. For God to answer this and get Jesus off the Hook, then...................... Scriptures like these could have never been given or set as the eternal Word.
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
(Gen 3:15)
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
(Isa 53:3-5)
For God to say yes to Jesus, would mean that to keep the eternal Word true, the events in time would have had to change. If Jesus did not go to the cross, then God's Word could not be true and being eternal, alive, that would be impossible. To keep the Word true, the events that led up to the Written Word would have to have changed.
This is why Jesus said.......... ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE TO YOU!!! Jesus knew exactly what He was asking, and knew His Father could do it.
However, Jesus was also the only begotten son of God. So to change everything would take some major time shifts and still make a way for us to be saved.
3 Different Doctrinal Beliefs- Mans Ideas
Each belief attempts to keep God's Sovereignty
Each belief attempts to keep God's Sovereignty
Molinism
Man has free will. God knows the end reality and branches of reality of all situations. Where mans will does not fit God's reality path, then God steps in and changes it. Otherwise, man picks his own reality though God knows what that will be. God knows what all realities can be caused by a specific event.
Arminianism
Much like Molinism, Man has a free will. Man has a choice to not be saved anymore and walk away from Grace. Unlike Molinism there are no alternate realities, but one. God knows what that reality is. God knows who will accept Jesus and who won't. Who will walk away, who won't.
Calvinism
God does not have any Foreknowledge and is not a fortune teller. Every reality God has caused and predestined to happen. God's foreknowledge is because God caused it. God picks who gets saved, and who does not. Man does not have a free will, or can choose on their own to be saved. God picks and man responds.
Did God know, or predestine Adam to blow it?
The 3 doctrines above will attempt to answer this question. Each a slightly different answer.
None would be correct.
Blessings.
Michael.
Hi. I said 'everyone' was in Abrahams bosom. I meant to say not all, only those that served God.
"And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. "But Abraham said, Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and you are tormented. "And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from there to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from there.''
Roger that. And I appreciate the clarification.
I think so too. Something to think about:
To pinch an analogy from Shane Willard, let's say we draw a stick figure on a piece of paper, and somehow grant him sentience. Let's name him, say, Joe. So Joe exists in this two-dimensional world. Let's say I want to teach Joe something about myself, so I say, Joe, in my world, I can extend my arm out in front of me. This completely blows Joe's mind. He thinks it's incredible. He can choose to believe it or not believe it, but he cannot possibly hope to understand what it means that I can do this, or the implications of it. There isn't anything he can deduce about me through this information. The only thing he can know is that I perceive space differently from him, and I can do something that he can't comprehend.
(On a side note, but one which may suggest a way of viewing this thread topic, I can't really comprehend what it would be like to perceive things from Joe's perspective, either. Can I really know what it's like to perceive only two dimensions, to give up being able to perceive the third dimension? One of the things that blows my mind about God is that He's an infinitely-dimensional being that literally humbled himself to living a life, as Jesus, limiting himself to only being able to perceive the universe as we do, in just three dimensions. What seems significant to us is that Jesus could be called the Son of God. What was significant to Him is that he was the son of man, which is how he often referred to himself. That God could be a son of man seems more significant to him than that a man could be the Son of God.)
So God is an infinitely-dimensional being teaching something about Himself to beings that can only perceive three dimensions. God seems to let us know through scripture that He perceives time and space differently from us. We can believe it or not believe it, but like, Joe, we can fully accurately and fully correctly deduce exactly nothing about God from this information. So sure, we can talk about how it all might work, and I would suggest God would be pleased that we're discussing Him instead of other things. And I wouldn't say it's not worth talking about. But any time we try to figure God out through deductive reasoning, the first thing we should do is assume that we're wrong (especially if you define "wrong" as "not fully correct").
