Contradictions In The Bible???

Mr. Darby said:
Smarter in science and technology, but declining in spirituality. I think these tendencies will increase as the end of the age draws nearer.
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Not so Mr D. I am more spiritual than I was when I was born again and I find many more are. Scientific knowledge may not increase our Biblical knowledge, but linguistic discoveries and changes over the last century have change how we perceive the Holy Scriptures. The Dead Sea Scrolls for one, which those you bring up did NOT have.
Now I noticed something about dispensationalist views and I'm not quite sure why that has come up as well? Did someone make a preterist statement?
In any even I agree with Rusty, we should stay ON TOPIC or make a new thread.

Sorry I was on another forum dealing with a preterist.
 
Rusty said:
Stan...It started at #229 and my post #230......Theological assessments must not be done with personal favouritism, IMO.

Good points, Stan. Biblical archaeological science, creation science, as well as linguistics is light years beyond the "good ol' Victorian" days.

19th century morality is NOT like it's literature depicts it...That's a simplistic as thinking modern Hollywood is the norm for mankind....Nope.

The 19th century had (and I'm reading historical books on these subject right now):

1. Legal heroin and opium....the whole "Christian Empire" of Britain hooked China on their Indian imports of the drug ...on purpose....for mercantile reasons and the blessings of mainstream churches.

2. Crime was so rife in Europe that they had to create a new organized system to fight it....taxed paid police forces.

3. Prostitution was just as plentiful then as it is now....just not taxed or regulated.

4. Christian nations destroyed ancient cultures, with priests and pastors in tow, and called it "Christianizing the pagans"....when it was just plain old colonizing with a pretty "church face" on it...when convenient.
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Yes or even earlier like the Shakespeare years. Take look at the content of a lot of his plays.
Even George Takei would say "OH MY!" at some of those.
 
Stan said:
Where exactly do you get this assertion from? I couldn't find ANYTHING that confirmed he had credentials OTHER than as a lexicographer. Suitable for doing a dictionary and adding so-called modern vernacular to the KJV, but NOT much else.
Burgon is no clearer other than he got a degree at Worcester College. What degree did he get? His claim to fame seems to be that he instigated the KJVO society, which does NOT sit well with me AT ALL. Right away his Anglican nature comes out in spite of evidence even in his time, that the KJV was NOT the best. I have nothing against Anglicans, but the Word is the Word and it's best we get the most exact and unbiased English translation we can. That CANNOT be said for the KJV.

The FACT is we DO know more. That is NOT to disparage the earlier Saints. It's just that we can't really expect to KNOW God if we come at Him from a doctrinal position rather than an exegetical one. God's WORD is our guide and it is really not hard to know or ascertain what it says now-a-days.

The scriptures WARN us about false doctrine Mr D, it does NOT tell us it is a tendency of the BOC. We are NOT at the end of the age, and trust me apostasy will be far greater than we can imagine at that time.

As far as I am concerned, my mother's advice about NOT playing with fire is sound and I see no reason to ignore it, in the same fashion I see no reason to expose myself to alternative opinions I KNOW are wrong. I was born and raised as a RC,
....that's enough doctrinal trash to last anyone a lifetime. I thank God that in 1971 He drew me to Him and I was born again.
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The publisher's preface to the Webster Bible states that he mastered 20 languages, including Hebrew and Greek. Burgon was an Oxford man, and his 20th Century successor Hills had a PhD from Harvard in textual criticism. The modern age has saw no real advance in either knowledge of Hebrew or Greek since the 19th Century.

How do you know that Burgon is wrong without hearing him out? Proverbs 18:13 says;

'He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.'

Not trying to denigrate you in anyway, but there is nothing wrong in reading a book you disagree with every now and then. I am secure enough in my beliefs that I am able to. Are you? If you won't give him a chance, maybe some other readers of these posts might.
 
Rusty said:
Stan...It started at #229 and my post #230......Theological assessments must not be done with personal favouritism, IMO.

Good points, Stan. Biblical archaeological science, creation science, as well as linguistics is light years beyond the "good ol' Victorian" days.

19th century morality is NOT like it's literature depicts it...That's a simplistic as thinking modern Hollywood is the norm for mankind....Nope.

The 19th century had (and I'm reading historical books on these subject right now):

1. Legal heroin and opium....the whole "Christian Empire" of Britain hooked China on their Indian imports of the drug ...on purpose....for mercantile reasons and the blessings of mainstream churches.

2. Crime was so rife in Europe that they had to create a new organized system to fight it....taxed paid police forces.

3. Prostitution was just as plentiful then as it is now....just not taxed or regulated.

4. Christian nations destroyed ancient cultures, with priests and pastors in tow, and called it "Christianizing the pagans"....when it was just plain old colonizing with a pretty "church face" on it...when convenient.
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1. Drug addiction today dwarfs the 19th Century.
2. Ever been in the inner cities of America? Far more people are in prison today than in the 19th Century.
3. A CNN survey I once saw indicated that 95% of Americans have engaged in sex outside of marriage, and that the numbers are the same for church goers as for society in general.
4. Western 'Christian' nations in the 20th Century started wars that killed more people than all the wars in previous human history combined. Talk about 'perilous times'.
 
Mr. Darby said:
The publisher's preface to the Webster Bible states that he mastered 20 languages, including Hebrew and Greek. Burgon was an Oxford man, and his 20th Century successor Hills had a PhD from Harvard in textual criticism. The modern age has saw no real advance in either knowledge of Hebrew or Greek since the 19th Century.

How do you know that Burgon is wrong without hearing him out? says;

'He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.'

Not trying to denigrate you in anyway, but there is nothing wrong in reading a book you disagree with every now and then. I am secure enough in my beliefs that I am able to. Are you? If you won't give him a chance, maybe some other readers of these posts might.
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A publisher's preface is self serving at best. There is no record that I can find that substantiate's any linguistic credentials by Webster. I alluded to Burgon's attendance for 4 years at Worcester College(part of Oxford), but whatever the degree was is NOT recorded anywhere. My point is those who use men to support their beliefs don't always KNOW what those men had by way of actual credentials or qualifications. Better off as far as I'm concerned to LEARN God's Word through the Holy Spirit and cut out the middle man.

IF Burgon supported the KJVO sentiment then I don't need to read him to know he was wrong. Common sense and my limited knowledge of Greek translation and the KJV tells me he was wrong.
Proverbs 18:15 also says: The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge, for the ears of the wise seek it out.


I find myself in agreement with Paul when he writes in Eph 4:14;... no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming.

God said it, I believe it! That's settles it.
 
Mr. Darby said:
1. Drug addiction today dwarfs the 19th Century.
2. Ever been in the inner cities of America? Far more people are in prison today than in the 19th Century.
3. A CNN survey I once saw indicated that 95% of Americans have engaged in sex outside of marriage, and that the numbers are the same for church goers as for society in general.
4. Western 'Christian' nations in the 20th Century started wars that killed more people than all the wars in previous human history combined. Talk about 'perilous times'.
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When you make blanket statements like this, it is expected that you support your assertions with some sort of citation or reference. Within relative context, I find these assertions to be dubious at best. Prior to the 20th century, societies did NOT have the means to assess these issues as well as what has been assessed in our modern society.
 
Stan said:
When you make blanket statements like this, it is expected that you support your assertions with some sort of citation or reference. Within relative context, I find these assertions to be dubious at best. Prior to the 20th century, societies did NOT have the means to assess these issues as well as what has been assessed in our modern society.
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Well, I guess you guys don't have to believe anything I say if you don't wish to. I'm sure all the material I have about Webster is full of vicious lies designed designed to propagate the deadly heresy of Webster Bible Onlyism. If one's beliefs are so fragile they can't endure reading a 100 page book, then what good are they?
 
Mr. Darby said:
Well, I guess you guys don't have to believe anything I say if you don't wish to. I'm sure all the material I have about Webster is full of vicious lies designed designed to propagate the deadly heresy of Webster Bible Onlyism. If one's beliefs are so fragile they can't endure reading a 100 page book, then what good are they?
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We don't know what you have or where you got it Mr. Darby. That is why I asked. I am not inept when it comes to researching and I have not been able to find much that supports your assertions for these two fellows. I've never hear of WBO, but I know a lot about KJVO and if ANY of Burgon's teaching precipitated that movement then I don't want to know anymore about him because the KJVO movement is WRONG..
 
Seeing that there are no contradictions listed, I will list one for you that has been asked of me a long time ago.

"Those that seek me early shall find me" (Proverbs 8:17;) contradicts "they shall seek me early, but shall not find me" (Proverbs 1:28).

Is there a contradiction here??? No! Once again we see that it is a lack of Bible understanding.

Proverbs 8:17 is in reference to those who "love" the Lord. Proverbs 1:28 is in reference to fools (verse 7) and sinners (verse 9), who do not love the Lord. Proverbs 1:28 is dealing with sinners who are in calamity, distress, and anguish (verses 26-27) and despise the knowledge of God (verses 29-30), who are seeking God out of selfishness, not a repentant heart.
 
Rusty said:
Stan: How has that Holman translation clarified "apparent" contradictions for you?
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I haven't found any in it Rusty, and I use it mostly when studying scriptures to get a complete sense of what the Greek is saying. I like it though and the fact that is was a free download for my Blackberry Playbook did hurt either.
I mostly use MOUNCE for NT reading and NIV for OT. I try to quote from the NIV mostly to maintain consistency in style and language.
 
Exodus 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
versus
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God. The One and Only Son-- the One who is at the Father's side-- He has revealed Him.

Luke 8:26Then they sailed to the country of the Gerasenes, which is opposite Galilee.27And when He came out onto the land, He was met by a man from the city who was possessed with demons; and who had not put on any clothing for a long time, and was not living in a house, but in the tombs.
versus
Matthew 8:28 aWhen He came to the other side into the country of the Gadarenes, two men who were bdemon-possessed met Him as they were coming out of the tombs. They were so extremely violent that no one could pass by that way.
 
Hey Glomung,

And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
versus
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The word LORD is a reference to the Son of God in the Old Testament, when Moses was speaking to Him, God was on the Mercy Seat, Moses and Joshua saw the glory of the Lord between the Cherubim on the Mercy Seat.

John 1:18 is John the Baptist talking and he is saying the Son of God came to reveal the character of the Father, don't forget the Word laid aside His supernatural power and humbled Himself to become a man, all the miracles Jesus did were by the Holy Spirit.

Matthew is an eyewitness account, Luke gathered his information from others, however a clue to these verses is found in Googling the names of the two cities, if you are interested.

Blessings,

Gene
 
Glomung said:
Exodus 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
versus
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God. The One and Only Son-- the One who is at the Father's side-- He has revealed Him.
Click to expand...

This is the physical manifestation of God in the OT, NOT God. God is spirit. You can't see spirit. God manifested Himself a few times in this way. He walked in the furnace with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego. He wrestled Jacob. He was Melchizedek.


Glomung said:
Luke 8:26 Then they sailed to the country of the Gerasenes, which is opposite Galilee. 27 And when He came out onto the land, He was met by a man from the city who was possessed with demons; and who had not put on any clothing for a long time, and was not living in a house, but in the tombs.
versus
Matthew 8:28 aWhen He came to the other side into the country of the Gadarenes, two men who were bdemon-possessed met Him as they were coming out of the tombs. They were so extremely violent that no one could pass by that way.
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This is NOT a contradiction. Some say Matthew attested to both as a matter of true witness whereas Luke 8 and Mark 5 only addressed the one demoniac that was demonstrably the dangerous one. There is a doublet history in Matthew that stems from the allegations that Matthew did NOT actually view these occurrences. The following article may help sort that out.
http://christianthinktank.com/diplopia.html

In any event, neither of these are CONTRADICTIONS.
 
Glomung said:
Exodus 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
versus
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God. The One and Only Son-- the One who is at the Father's side-- He has revealed Him.

Luke 8:26Then they sailed to the country of the Gerasenes, which is opposite Galilee.27And when He came out onto the land, He was met by a man from the city who was possessed with demons; and who had not put on any clothing for a long time, and was not living in a house, but in the tombs.
versus
Matthew 8:28 aWhen He came to the other side into the country of the Gadarenes, two men who were bdemon-possessed met Him as they were coming out of the tombs. They were so extremely violent that no one could pass by that way.
Click to expand...

1.
Can God be Seen?

The Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend. Exodus 33:11 No one has ever seen God... John 1:18
In the first verse, the Hebrew idiom for face to face translates into English as without a mediator. This verse does not imply Moses physically seeing the face of God but that he was able to communicate with God as a man. This explanation is given once we read the context:
Then Moses said, "Now show me your glory." And the Lord said, "I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you... "But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live." Then the Lord said, "There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back. But my face must not be seen." Exodus 33:18-23
God can appear to us as a physical manifestation but He does not appear to us in full glory.

However, we seem to find ourselves in a bit of a predicament with the verse in Genesis 32:30: So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, 'It is because I saw God [Elohim] face to face, and yet my life was spared.' Again we see the Hebrew idiom face to face referring to without a mediator.

The words "yet my life was spared" as a possible reference to his struggle with God in Genesis 32:22-30 (and not necessarily a reference to him seeing ("God's glory"). Lastly, the context shows Jacob struggling with a manifestation of God and not God's glory (Then Jacob was left alone, and a man (iysh) wrestled with him until daybreak.
From....http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/bible.htm


2.
Two men (Matt. 8:28) - "And when He had come to the other side into the country of the Gadarenes, two men who were demon-possessed met Him as they were coming out of the tombs; they were so exceedingly violent that no one could pass by that road."

One man (Mark 5:1-2) - "And they came to the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gerasenes. 2And when He had come out of the boat, immediately a man from the tombs with an unclean spirit met Him,"

One man (Luke 8:26-27) - "And they sailed to the country of the Gerasenes, which is opposite Galilee. 27And when He had come out onto the land, He was met by a certain man from the city who was possessed with demons; and who had not put on any clothing for a long time, and was not living in a house, but in the tombs."

A contradiction occurs only when one statement makes the other impossible. If Mark or Luke said that only one demoniac came to Jesus while Matthew says that two came out, that would be a contradiction. If there are two demoniacs, there is certainly at least one; therefore, there is no contradiction.
From......http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/contradictions.html
 
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