Definition of Grace

Here is "Grace" in action. When there was no body desiring to know God. When there was no body who understood. When there was no body seeking after God, the Lord himself looked beyond mans deficiencies, and did something for man while he was in his darkness.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

The Lord "revealed" himself to man who did not want him, or understand anything about God or his ways, because he was in total darkness. If it was not for God "revealing" himself to man first, man would not have a way of choosing between light or darkness, life or death. This is "Grace". We love him because he first loved us.

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
 
I dont see gifts as doing us a favor. Although being given a gift makes us feel special.
Sorry..when I give gifts..I dont see that as a favor to someone. I give cos I like someone I dont give gifts to people I dont like. They may not be able to afford the gift I give them but I suppose that makes it more special eg when you give to children. Children deserve to be loved simply cos they ask nothing but to be loved. So why would we say to a child you dont deserve love??? Is it cos they naughty and we feel they dont deserve to have parents? I dont get it. They are helpless.

Maybe I just having trouble getting head round this concept.

When a child directly disobeys something their parents said....do they deserve to be punished?

Everyone was created for love. The Father created us because He loves us, and He gives us good things because He loves us! The devil comes to steal from us, kill us, and destroy us in any way He can. The bad things of this world are not from God, they are from the evil one.

I am copying Jude vs. 4 down, it's from the new living translation. Hopefully it will be easier to understand "I say this because some ungodly people have wormed their way into your churches, saying that God's marvelous grace allows us to live immoral lives. The condemnation of such people was recorded long ago, for they have denied our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ."
May the wisdom of our Lord come to you in abundance!
 
Hmm when a child directly disobeys yes..but that is wilful sin.
If a child sins in ignorance like paul said his sin was out of ignorance and unbelief..he was corrected and shown grace when Jesus appeared to him.

Did Paul deserve to be punished? I think not, I think if people reject Jesus after having come to know him that is the worst cos its blasphemy of the holy spirit, and that can never be forgiven. A lot of ppl are lost. They dont deserve punishment. Thats why Jesus had compassion and why John said he was not willing anyone to perish.

Am I missing something here? That God so LOVED the world? He gave gave His only begotten son Jesus so that whosever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life?

Why do ppl think we deserve punishment..if Jesus has appeared to us and HE DID, why do people have this mindset that we still deserve hell? We only need to believe and be saved, Jesus paid it all. The power of Christ is effective and does work in our hearts. Thats the amazing grace, JESUS working in our hearts, dwelling in us. How can we wilfully sin anymore if Jesus does not want us to?
 
Well we all know Jesus has appeared and those that totally deny him will be in hell I suppose.
im kind of thinking that we cant presume to know that Jesus wont appear to anybody who needs him or cries out to Him. that is grace, the divine power that changes peoples hearts.

I think that when God sees a contrite spirit and a heart broken before him, i.e. Humility, he gives grace. To him, that does 'merit' grace.

Also says God resists the proud. he doesnt give grace to just anybody. Those that have ears hear. Jesus didnt appear to just anybody after resurrection , only to those who BELIEVED. If Paul had not believed when Jesus appeared to him, I expect he would have deserved hell. i notice that Paul was struck blind for three days when first saw Jesus. God saw him humbled and convicted.

I suppose you cant preach grace without truth..and that is we need to repent. Or Grace through faith. Without any faith in Jesus we just cant receive the grace of his presence.

Is this right?
Like he could be standing here right now, the believer would see and be in his grace, his heart would be soft and kind, the unbeliever would not and thus his or her heart would be hard.
What is the grace then? The power of Christ to work in our hearts.

To me this doesnt really fit in with 'unmerited'favour..because...the believer does merit grace. Believing is an act of our own will as is faith that grows from believing. grace is a gift given to us.

Faith is a fruit, Grace is a gift.

Ok maybe im getting into something else now and should stop. Maybe im confusing myself. The more we believe in Jesus, the more grace is given??
 
Well we all know Jesus has appeared and those that totally deny him will be in hell I suppose.
im kind of thinking that we cant presume to know that Jesus wont appear to anybody who needs him or cries out to Him. that is grace, the divine power that changes peoples hearts.

I think that when God sees a contrite spirit and a heart broken before him, i.e. Humility, he gives grace. To him, that does 'merit' grace.

Also says God resists the proud. he doesnt give grace to just anybody. Those that have ears hear. Jesus didnt appear to just anybody after resurrection , only to those who BELIEVED. If Paul had not believed when Jesus appeared to him, I expect he would have deserved hell. i notice that Paul was struck blind for three days when first saw Jesus. God saw him humbled and convicted.

I suppose you cant preach grace without truth..and that is we need to repent. Or Grace through faith. Without any faith in Jesus we just cant receive the grace of his presence.

Is this right?
Like he could be standing here right now, the believer would see and be in his grace, his heart would be soft and kind, the unbeliever would not and thus his or her heart would be hard.
What is the grace then? The power of Christ to work in our hearts.

To me this doesnt really fit in with 'unmerited'favour..because...the believer does merit grace. Believing is an act of our own will as is faith that grows from believing. grace is a gift given to us.

Faith is a fruit, Grace is a gift.

Ok maybe im getting into something else now and should stop. Maybe im confusing myself. The more we believe in Jesus, the more grace is given??

My sister......God's Grace is a constant theme in the Bible, and it magnifies itself in the New Testament with the coming of Jesus in John 1:17.

The word translated "grace" in the New Testament comes from the Greek word charis, which means “favor, blessing, or kindness.” We can all extend grace to others; but when the word grace is used in connection with God, it takes on a more powerful meaning. Grace is God choosing to bless us rather than curse us as our sin deserves. WHY IS THAT??? Because we are SINNERS!!!
It is His benevolence to the undeserving.

Ephesians 2:8 says........
"For by grace are you saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves."

The only way any of us can enter into a relationship with God, and remember this, salvation is all ABOUT ACCESS TO GOD THE FATHER WHO LIVES IN HEAVEN------ is because of His grace toward us.

Grace began in the Garden of Eden when God killed an animal to cover the sin of Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:21.
He could have killed the first humans right there for their disobedience and He would have been just if He did.
But rather than destroy them, He chose to make a way for them to be right with Him and that once again speaks of ACCESS. That pattern of grace continued throughout the Old Testament when God instituted blood sacrifices as a means to atone for sinful men. It was not the blood of those sacrifices that cleansed sinners; it was the grace of God that forgave those who trusted in Him in that every drop of blood shed POINTED TO THE COMING OF MESSIAH JESUS who would be the ultimate sacrice and God's Grace in action!!!(Hebrews 10:4; Genesis 15:6).
 
Yes I see it all points towards Jesus being sacrificed for our sakes instead.

Like..everyone around Noah was killed except him and his family. noah was spared.
Esther was about to be killed..but she was spared along with her people. She did not perish.
Adam and Eve could have died right there and then for indecent exposure...but God made coats for them and covered them up.

We could have been killed cos the wages of sin are death...but Jesus saved us even in sin by reaching out and rescuing us. This is grace right? Cos he loves us. He is kind towards us. Even though he set up the world so we could live, satan entered and wickedness meant we could be killed and destroyed in the fallout, and tempt us and steal from us but God spared us and did everything to save us alive.

God saw something in Noah, something in Esther, something in Eve, and even Adam to be kind to us. (Methinks with Adam, he spared cos Eve was pregnant...adam most prolly did not need clothes but Eve surely did. Why do men go crazy when they see a naked woman? One of my questions) he sees something in everyone who believes in Jesus. he loves that bit about us.
 
It was the grace of God that forgave those who TRUSTED.

Like Job even though he suffered, by Gods grace was given back everything again, but his wife wanted him to curse God and die. ONly Job was given an audience with God, not his wife, as she didnt trust him.
 
Yes I see it all points towards Jesus being sacrificed for our sakes instead.

Like..everyone around Noah was killed except him and his family. noah was spared.
Esther was about to be killed..but she was spared along with her people. She did not perish.
Adam and Eve could have died right there and then for indecent exposure...but God made coats for them and covered them up.

We could have been killed cos the wages of sin are death...but Jesus saved us even in sin by reaching out and rescuing us. This is grace right? Cos he loves us. He is kind towards us. Even though he set up the world so we could live, satan entered and wickedness meant we could be killed and destroyed in the fallout, and tempt us and steal from us but God spared us and did everything to save us alive.

God saw something in Noah, something in Esther, something in Eve, and even Adam to be kind to us. (Methinks with Adam, he spared cos Eve was pregnant...adam most prolly did not need clothes but Eve surely did. Why do men go crazy when they see a naked woman? One of my questions) he sees something in everyone who believes in Jesus. he loves that bit about us.

A couple of things to think about.

Noah, Esther and any others we might think of DID NOT die for others as did Jesus. Only Jesus took our place so that we could live with God. ACCESS!

There is nothing in the Bible that suggests Eve was pregnant. That is an assumption my sister.

Their nakedness was not a problem until sin came into the world.

Why do men go crazy when they see a naked woman???? Because they are MEN and that is what men do.

Then there are men like me, old and worn out. When we see a naked woman we know it is a grandmother of our grandchildren and we just roll back over and go to sleep!:ROFLMAO:!
 
Well no but thats an example of Gods grace.
Jesus being present with us the ultimate example. and his sacrifice, but mostly his presence cos now he is with anyone who believes.

I dont know about your other comment...

Eve wasnt pregnant?? Why did God say shed have difficulty in childbirth
 
Well women dont go crazy over naked men thats for sure. Not as crazy as men over women. Its like..go put on some clothes.
 
Jesus was naked on the cross to his shame.
If a woman was crucified naked Im sure men would just be gawking and staring.
 
Well no but thats an example of Gods grace.
Jesus being present with us the ultimate example. and his sacrifice, but mostly his presence cos now he is with anyone who believes.

I dont know about your other comment...

Eve wasnt pregnant?? Why did God say shed have difficulty in childbirth

That was the result of her disobedience and sin.

Genesis 3:16......
"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

Then in Genesis 4:1 we see.............
"Adam was intimate with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain. She said, "I have had a male child with the LORD's help." (Cain).
 
For the second quoted verse mine says Now Adam knew his wife Eve...

After this forbidden fruit eating bit Adam did know his wife. Cos it was the tree of knowledge of good and evil. It wasnt like nothing happened!

Even I know that!!
 
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