Destruction of Cultic Dogmas

Musicmaster

Musicmaster

There are wicked cults out there that teach Jesus as a created being rather than the One who is self-existent, and therefore eternal.

We, on the other hand, were created just as were the angels...all crated, and therefore everlasting rather than eternal.

Now, these verses have a double-whammy boomerang effect against a number of falsehoods purveyed by a number of groupings steeped in false teachings. Pay close attention to Who is speaking, and THEN what is said about WHO is speaking:

Zechariah 12:1-10
1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah [and] against Jerusalem.
3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
4 In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem [shall be] my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, [even] in Jerusalem.
7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify [themselves] against Judah.
8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David [shall be] as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

In the KJV, every time LORD is in all caps, such as we see here, the Hebrew clearly portrays YHWH, Yawheh, Jahovah, the Most High. Then we see that Yahweh had been pierced. In the Hebrew, every occurrence of LORD is pointed out in the Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew dictionary as:

"yeh-ho-vaw'"

Angles are not addressed with that name, and no created being is addressed with that name, but only Deity.

This shatters the false teachings that Jesus was a created being who created everything and every one in creation and in the Heavens who are known as the creatures and the angels. This, along with other references in the Bible, also show that He was not formerly a mortal man since this same Lord and God stated:

Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared [it]? ye [are] even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, [there is] no God; I know not [any].

Two major systems of false teaching crash to the ground in just these two sections of scripture. They are undone!

The Lord is so very wonderful to have provided His Truth to us!

MM
 
Musicmaster said:
There are wicked cults out there that teach Jesus as a created being rather than the One who is self-existent, and therefore eternal.

We, on the other hand, were created just as were the angels...all crated, and therefore everlasting rather than eternal.

Now, these verses have a double-whammy boomerang effect against a number of falsehoods purveyed by a number of groupings steeped in false teachings. Pay close attention to Who is speaking, and THEN what is said about WHO is speaking:

Zechariah 12:1-10
1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah [and] against Jerusalem.
3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
4 In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem [shall be] my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, [even] in Jerusalem.
7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify [themselves] against Judah.
8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David [shall be] as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

In the KJV, every time LORD is in all caps, such as we see here, the Hebrew clearly portrays YHWH, Yawheh, Jahovah, the Most High. Then we see that Yahweh had been pierced. In the Hebrew, every occurrence of LORD is pointed out in the Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew dictionary as:

"yeh-ho-vaw'"

Angles are not addressed with that name, and no created being is addressed with that name, but only Deity.

This shatters the false teachings that Jesus was a created being who created everything and every one in creation and in the Heavens who are known as the creatures and the angels. This, along with other references in the Bible, also show that He was not formerly a mortal man since this same Lord and God stated:

Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared [it]? ye [are] even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, [there is] no God; I know not [any].

Two major systems of false teaching crash to the ground in just these two sections of scripture. They are undone!

The Lord is so very wonderful to have provided His Truth to us!

MM
Click to expand...
These groups are all practicing forms of the ancient Arian heresy.
 
Musicmaster said:
There are wicked cults out there that teach Jesus as a created being rather than the One who is self-existent, and therefore eternal.

We, on the other hand, were created just as were the angels...all crated, and therefore everlasting rather than eternal.

Now, these verses have a double-whammy boomerang effect against a number of falsehoods purveyed by a number of groupings steeped in false teachings. Pay close attention to Who is speaking, and THEN what is said about WHO is speaking:

Zechariah 12:1-10
1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah [and] against Jerusalem.
3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
4 In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem [shall be] my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, [even] in Jerusalem.
7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify [themselves] against Judah.
8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David [shall be] as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

In the KJV, every time LORD is in all caps, such as we see here, the Hebrew clearly portrays YHWH, Yawheh, Jahovah, the Most High. Then we see that Yahweh had been pierced. In the Hebrew, every occurrence of LORD is pointed out in the Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew dictionary as:

"yeh-ho-vaw'"

Angles are not addressed with that name, and no created being is addressed with that name, but only Deity.

This shatters the false teachings that Jesus was a created being who created everything and every one in creation and in the Heavens who are known as the creatures and the angels. This, along with other references in the Bible, also show that He was not formerly a mortal man since this same Lord and God stated:

Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared [it]? ye [are] even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, [there is] no God; I know not [any].

Two major systems of false teaching crash to the ground in just these two sections of scripture. They are undone!

The Lord is so very wonderful to have provided His Truth to us!

MM
Click to expand...
Agreed. I would say that some of these groups are very well known and a great number of Christians accept them as Christians.

1. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Jeus is Michael the angel.
2. Latter Day Saints (Mormons). They believe the God Elohim, the literal parent of a spirit son called Jehovah, was originally a man.
3. Unification Church (Moonies) who say Jesus is a finite separate being, the offspring of Zechariah and Mary.
4. Unitarian Universalist. They believe that God is One Being and that Jesus is not the eternal Son of God.
 
Major said:
Agreed. I would say that some of these groups are very well known and a great number of Christians accept them as Christians.

1. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Jeus is Michael the angel.
2. Latter Day Saints (Mormons). They believe the God Elohim, the literal parent of a spirit son called Jehovah, was originally a man.
3. Unification Church (Moonies) who say Jesus is a finite separate being, the offspring of Zechariah and Mary.
4. Unitarian Universalist. They believe that God is One Being and that Jesus is not the eternal Son of God.
Click to expand...

Doesn't T.D. Jakes teach modalism, meaning that "GOD" expresses himself in one of three modes at any given time, either as the Father, or (not "and") the Son, or (not "and") the Spirit?

o_O

MM
 
This is something I found concerning Jakes. Make of it what you will.

www.baptistpress.com

T.D. Jakes says he has embraced doctrine of the Trinity | Baptist Press

Bishop T.D. Jakes says he has moved away from a "Oneness" view of the Godhead to embrace an orthodox definition of the Trinity -- and that some in the Oneness Pentecostal movement now consider him a heretic. Jakes -- long a controversial figure among evangelicals because of his supposed denial...
www.baptistpress.com www.baptistpress.com
 
Origen said:
This is something I found concerning Jakes. Make of it what you will.

www.baptistpress.com

T.D. Jakes says he has embraced doctrine of the Trinity | Baptist Press

Bishop T.D. Jakes says he has moved away from a "Oneness" view of the Godhead to embrace an orthodox definition of the Trinity -- and that some in the Oneness Pentecostal movement now consider him a heretic. Jakes -- long a controversial figure among evangelicals because of his supposed denial...
www.baptistpress.com www.baptistpress.com
Click to expand...

Interesting. If this is true, then he's come a long way.

Thanks for sharing.

MM
 
Origen said:
This is something I found concerning Jakes. Make of it what you will.

www.baptistpress.com

T.D. Jakes says he has embraced doctrine of the Trinity | Baptist Press

Bishop T.D. Jakes says he has moved away from a "Oneness" view of the Godhead to embrace an orthodox definition of the Trinity -- and that some in the Oneness Pentecostal movement now consider him a heretic. Jakes -- long a controversial figure among evangelicals because of his supposed denial...
www.baptistpress.com www.baptistpress.com
Click to expand...
The 2012 interview in question sparked a major controversy in the reformed evangelical blogosphere, with the general consensus being that the interview itself was a mistake and that nothing had truly been clarified.

With a little looking into the question we can find A 2014 blog post by reformed Baptist Tim Challies indicates no knowledge of any post-2012 trinitarian confession by Jakes. Jakes' church's belief statement shies away from Trinitarian credal language and retains the use of the favored modalist term "manifestations" instead of "persons" to describe the Godhead.

So then, simply said, It seems that his last attempt to publicly clarify his doctrine of God was the 2012 interview you refer to in which he really failed to clarify his position on the Trinity.
 
Major said:
The 2012 interview in question sparked a major controversy in the reformed evangelical blogosphere, with the general consensus being that the interview itself was a mistake and that nothing had truly been clarified.

With a little looking into the question we can find A 2014 blog post by reformed Baptist Tim Challies indicates no knowledge of any post-2012 trinitarian confession by Jakes. Jakes' church's belief statement shies away from Trinitarian credal language and retains the use of the favored modalist term "manifestations" instead of "persons" to describe the Godhead.

So then, simply said, It seems that his last attempt to publicly clarify his doctrine of God was the 2012 interview you refer to in which he really failed to clarify his position on the Trinity.
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Like I said, make of it what you will.

Jakes is one of those megachurch TV pastors and that alone is more than enough reason for me to look upon him with suspicion.

For example stuff like this:

T. D. Jakes Ministries |

Ease Your Soul, Rebuke Stress, and Manifest Heaven’s Blessings! As a “thank you” for your gift of support, request the “Promises to Bless Your Soul” box of blessings. Starve your doubts and feed your faith with 50 Scripture cards: Topical promises to help you focus your faith and memorize...
payments.tdjakes.org payments.tdjakes.org
 
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Major said:
The 2012 interview in question sparked a major controversy in the reformed evangelical blogosphere, with the general consensus being that the interview itself was a mistake and that nothing had truly been clarified.

With a little looking into the question we can find A 2014 blog post by reformed Baptist Tim Challies indicates no knowledge of any post-2012 trinitarian confession by Jakes. Jakes' church's belief statement shies away from Trinitarian credal language and retains the use of the favored modalist term "manifestations" instead of "persons" to describe the Godhead.

So then, simply said, It seems that his last attempt to publicly clarify his doctrine of God was the 2012 interview you refer to in which he really failed to clarify his position on the Trinity.
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i am not a huge fan of t,d jakes he just never had the drawing for me . i seen you tube videos where he was removed from office not sure why .
there will always be cults false teacher /preacher that are far out there. Jesus said beware of the bread of the pharoses {there teaching ) just not t.v ministries i care for . T.D Jakes made some major $$$$$$ there was someone who came picked him up for church. i watched his program once they was throwing money at his feel . mainly at the bottom of the podium
 
BibleLover said:
I don't listen to T D Jakes because he is endorsed by New Age Oprah Winfrey.
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Even if he changed over to the purity of biblical doctrines, he would never stand in the light of integrity in the eyes of all others who love the word of God for what it says. Once one has gone down the path of falsehoods, it's never easy to get back the integrity given up long before for the sake of drawing more people who have itching ears.

MM
 
i know this is one sided conversation lol over the years we have liberally Glorified mega Church t.v ministries.. we had the Jim baker jimmy Swigert the list grows on and on. i don't mean sound harsh but the Big charismatic movement is dangerous.. i am not running down being Pentecost. i am talking about a movement that is not of God .. i watched a ministry on t.v the preacher waved his hand people started twitching and jerking like a grand maul seizure . we no longer condemn things like that
 
forgiven61 said:
i know this is one sided conversation lol over the years we have liberally Glorified mega Church t.v ministries.. we had the Jim baker jimmy Swigert the list grows on and on. i don't mean sound harsh but the Big charismatic movement is dangerous.. i am not running down being Pentecost. i am talking about a movement that is not of God .. i watched a ministry on t.v the preacher waved his hand people started twitching and jerking like a grand maul seizure . we no longer condemn things like that
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I get what you are saying. It not about the denomination. It's the whole megachurch TV pastors entertainment show that is call into question, money, money, more money. Looks like greed to me.
 
Origen said:
I get what you are saying. It not about the denomination. It's the whole megachurch TV pastors entertainment show that is call into question, money, money, more money. Looks like greed to me.
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many start out good but get caught up jim baker while in prison wrote a book called i was wrong he told how they edited every program how everything fell into place. i even heard him preach after prison .did great but soon went back to his old ways .. started a mega church in Branson mo about 3 hours from me. Love of money is the root of all evil
 
Origen said:
I get what you are saying. It not about the denomination. It's the whole megachurch TV pastors entertainment show that is call into question, money, money, more money. Looks like greed to me.
Click to expand...

I'm left with nothing more than to say that the prosperity message derived from the Bible, although highly selective, out of context, misrepresented, ignoring many other areas of scripture where there was persecution, loss and death, the lack of balance itself in the prosperity messages I've heard is indeed what we may say falls under the letter to Sardis in Revelation 3.

What the Lord revealed to that Church is that His coming, from their spiritual standpoint that will govern their perspective, will be as a thief in the night, just as it will be to all the unsaved of the earth and those who were not prepared and watching. The Lord made an amazing point with that Church, and when I hear expositors apply those churches to modern day groupings of professing believers, it's indeed something that causes me to tremble within, and should be most sobering to those who read those letter to find out if they are indeed among those whom the Lord said no good thing, or that had some issues requiring that they address.

MM
 
Musicmaster said:
I'm left with nothing more than to say that the prosperity message derived from the Bible, although highly selective, out of context, misrepresented, ignoring many other areas of scripture where there was persecution, loss and death, the lack of balance itself in the prosperity messages I've heard is indeed what we may say falls under the letter to Sardis in Revelation 3.

What the Lord revealed to that Church is that His coming, from their spiritual standpoint that will govern their perspective, will be as a thief in the night, just as it will be to all the unsaved of the earth and those who were not prepared and watching. The Lord made an amazing point with that Church, and when I hear expositors apply those churches to modern day groupings of professing believers, it's indeed something that causes me to tremble within, and should be most sobering to those who read those letter to find out if they are indeed among those whom the Lord said no good thing, or that had some issues requiring that they address.

MM
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The "Word of Faith" theology is decidedly unbiblical. It is not a denomination and does not have a formal organization or hierarchy. Instead, it is a movement that is heavily influenced by a number of high-profile pastors and teachers such as Kenneth Hagin, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Paul and Jan Crouch, and Fred Price just to name a few.

It has grown out of the Pentacostal denomination and its individual teachings range from completely heretical to completely ridiculous.

What is troubling to me is how so many people can be so easily persuaded to follow these people.

It also shows how the world be mislead by the False Prophet to worship the A/C when the Holy Spirit is removed at the Rapture.
 
Major said:
The "Word of Faith" theology is decidedly unbiblical. It is not a denomination and does not have a formal organization or hierarchy. Instead, it is a movement that is heavily influenced by a number of high-profile pastors and teachers such as Kenneth Hagin, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Paul and Jan Crouch, and Fred Price just to name a few.

It has grown out of the Pentacostal denomination and its individual teachings range from completely heretical to completely ridiculous.

What is troubling to me is how so many people can be so easily persuaded to follow these people.

It also shows how the world be mislead by the False Prophet to worship the A/C when the Holy Spirit is removed at the Rapture.
Click to expand...

Many people are desperate for healing, and/or needing an end to financial difficulties and in need of things that only money can buy, and many other scenarios. Some involve greed, others are matter of desperation. When we are healthy and not in need, it's easy to overlook the needs of the suffering. I try to not fall into that. It's easy to do.

MM
 
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