Did you know there is only one placr in scripture the phrase faith alnoe is used?
- Thread starter Ezek33
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Boanerges(Inactive)
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Cool- we both love the truth regardless of what anyone wants to teach us- so you agree with with Titus 3:4-8 (red emphasis mine) says about salvation by grace and good works as a byproduct of that grace?
Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
followed by:
Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
This makes works good and desirable butcertainly no basis for salvation.
When you get see your God face to face there is but one entry into His house and that the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. That my friend is our only leg to stand on.
Our sins were judged in Christ. Our works can all be burned if they are but the fruit of fleshly effort nd yet we still will be saved (red emphasis mine):
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Jesus Christ was our perfect example (He only did what He saw the Father do, He only spoke the Words the Father gave. He only moved in the power of the Holy Spirit, He was led of the Spirit)and in following Him (true walking in the Spirit) our works will be gold. silver and precious stones- worthy of laying at His feet.
If we seek to serve Him in our own strength, ideas and abilities we will only produce Ismael's and those works (wood , hay and stubble) will be consumed.
Let us indeed walk in the Spirit that we may have many crowns to cast at Jesus feet. But let us remember that our salvation comes as His wonderful grace purchased on that cross is received.
Many blessings in His Name,
brother Larry.
Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
followed by:
Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
This makes works good and desirable butcertainly no basis for salvation.
When you get see your God face to face there is but one entry into His house and that the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. That my friend is our only leg to stand on.
Our sins were judged in Christ. Our works can all be burned if they are but the fruit of fleshly effort nd yet we still will be saved (red emphasis mine):
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Jesus Christ was our perfect example (He only did what He saw the Father do, He only spoke the Words the Father gave. He only moved in the power of the Holy Spirit, He was led of the Spirit)and in following Him (true walking in the Spirit) our works will be gold. silver and precious stones- worthy of laying at His feet.
If we seek to serve Him in our own strength, ideas and abilities we will only produce Ismael's and those works (wood , hay and stubble) will be consumed.
Let us indeed walk in the Spirit that we may have many crowns to cast at Jesus feet. But let us remember that our salvation comes as His wonderful grace purchased on that cross is received.
Many blessings in His Name,
brother Larry.
Yes, this is why infant baptism is perfectly appropriate... As St. Paul made clear in Titus 3
You see, Baptism is not just the water, but it is the Word of God AND the water, along with the faith that trusts the Word of God in the water.
Because, without the Word, the promise, then the water is simply water and there is no Baptism.
However with the Word of God, it becomes a Baptism, rich in grace, and a washing of the new birth in the Holy Spirit.
God does not withhold this grace and this blessing until a person reaches any particular age, or completes any particular training or catechetical instructions. God is not constrained to any particular age group in which He can bestow His mercy.
Well I certainly agree with scripture, however I am not sure I agree with your take on it.
I do not know what you mean by ''appropriate'', but if a baby is baptize and then grows up to reject Christ that baptism meant nothing, and if a baby is not baptized and dies as an infant it will not be condemned because of the none baptism. So appropriate or not, I do not see what purpose it serves.
Maybe a new thread should be started to discuss that.
There are some denominations that feel it is inappropriate to baptize before a certain age, or before a certain level of instruction has been completed first.
Baptism works the forgiveness of sins, rescues from death and the devil, and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, just as our Lord said in the last chapter of Mark...Mark 16:16
I agree with you, a baby, a teenager, an adult, can be baptized and later reject these truths. But I would not say that the baptism meant nothing, it was completely valid, just as Christs complete atonement is complete and perfect, but man, no matter his/her age, does have the free will to refuse it.
Romans 6:4 tells us that we MAY have a new life, but not that we necessarily must have it.
Yes, the same is true of the thief on the cross.
He was not baptised, however he did rebuke the thief on the other side...
He acknowledged the deity of Christ when he said..."This man has nothing wong"
and he confessed when he said, "Lord, remember me"
With no baptism Christ said... "This day you shall be with me in paradise."
As you said, I believe the same is true of infants, still births, aborted children, ....God is not constrained to baptism for salvation.
Perhaps, but as I said before.. some feel that baptism has no significance or purpose at all, others (like myself) feel that it is of the utmost importance, that it provides hope, and eternal life as heirs ( Titus 3:5-8 ) that Christs resurrection, we too are raised ( Romans 6:4 ) and that God commanded us to do it ( Matthew 28:19 )
The discussion usually just winds up getting closed and argumentative.
All I am saying, is that I believe that Baptism and it's power are from God and not man, therefore it is not subject to age restrictions, denomination, or how it is performed.
But I do believe it is important, as it is commanded.
Matthew 8:26
He replied, "You of little faith, why are you so afraid?" Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm.
Matthew 9:2
Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven."
Matthew 9:22
Jesus turned and saw her. "Take heart, daughter," he said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was healed from that moment.
Matthew 14:31
Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. "You of little faith," he said, "why did you doubt?"
Matthew 17:20
He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."
Matthew 21:21
Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done.
Acts 6:7
So the word of God spread. The number of disciples in Jerusalem increased rapidly, and a large number of priests became obedient to the faith.
Acts 26:18
to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'
He replied, "You of little faith, why are you so afraid?" Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm.
Matthew 9:2
Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven."
Matthew 9:22
Jesus turned and saw her. "Take heart, daughter," he said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was healed from that moment.
Matthew 14:31
Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. "You of little faith," he said, "why did you doubt?"
Matthew 17:20
He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."
Matthew 21:21
Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done.
Acts 6:7
So the word of God spread. The number of disciples in Jerusalem increased rapidly, and a large number of priests became obedient to the faith.
Acts 26:18
to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'
Just to add to the mix . I think infant baptism is more for the parents than for the baby and when the child comes to an accountable age and accepts Jesus Christ as his /her Saviour ... then they can decide to have total emersion ( Baptism ) which signifies they want to walk with Jesus and are denying their former life and desire a deeper walk with Him .
Howdid we go from faith to bapism ? But anyways here's my two cents .
I can't understand why any one would say that Baptism is not important . If Jesus felt the need to be baptised then for me it is important .
I have been baptised twice , once when I was a teenager .
And then last year when I was in Israel I got batised again in the same river where Jesus was baptised . It was an experience that I will never forget .
I can't understand why any one would say that Baptism is not important . If Jesus felt the need to be baptised then for me it is important .
I have been baptised twice , once when I was a teenager .
And then last year when I was in Israel I got batised again in the same river where Jesus was baptised . It was an experience that I will never forget .
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
With your works based salvation theology I would be interested in your take on this :
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
This is not referring to works of righteousness and sin. This is referring to your motives. Good works done in wrong motive will be burned, and good works done out a pure motives will be rewarded.
Now I do not believe in ''works'' salvation all of our works are sinful our works are works of the flesh, and there is no good thing in our flesh, nothing but murder, deceit, adultery ect... so we cannot be justified by our own works. We are justified by the works that come from true faith, when we walk in the Spirit we are empowered to overcome sin. Do you not believe that the same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead living inside us cannot overtake our flesh and free us from sin?
M
Mark_18
Guest
I didn't read all of the comments, but, the faith is a gift and is salvation, works are just what will happen when this new creature, being born from above, simply exists in this world. Amen?
Faith without works is dead because it was never faith unto salvation, but rather, proved to be vain human belief. Amen?
He WILL take out our heart of stone and give us a heart of flesh. He WILL bring us into our own land. Amen?
A balloon filled with air in the bottom of a pool will automatically float to the top because of it's nature and the environment it's in. It's not air-filled because it floated up, it's air-filled because some dude filled it with air. Say one is filled with air, but not released before the end of time... was it not still air-filled even though it never made progress to the top?
Faith without works is dead because it was never faith unto salvation, but rather, proved to be vain human belief. Amen?
He WILL take out our heart of stone and give us a heart of flesh. He WILL bring us into our own land. Amen?
A balloon filled with air in the bottom of a pool will automatically float to the top because of it's nature and the environment it's in. It's not air-filled because it floated up, it's air-filled because some dude filled it with air. Say one is filled with air, but not released before the end of time... was it not still air-filled even though it never made progress to the top?
M
Mark_18
Guest
Free us from sin? As in, sin as it's revealed by the law? Is it not a fact that all men fall short, and never will be sinless until that day? Of course we are considered to have the righteousness of Christ and be imputed the righteous life He lived, but ourselves being completely sinless? I don't think so.
Our spirit is alive, but as we are, we have to consider our bodies as part of us, and so none of our motives are pure. That's why we're completely dependent upon Christ. By the Spirit, we can have right motives, yes, this is the works of true faith. It is our part with Christ, and actually His doing, imputed to us. But all the while, in the parallel world called earth, we are still riddled with sin. Some more and some less than others.
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
My bible says my works can be burned away at judgment and I remain saved. This is the mercy of God as no one is worthy.
(red emphasis mine)
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
We are tripartite made in the image of our God. Our spirit is sinless made in the image of Christ but our soul is not. We need to be renewed in our thinking until that day we think just like our Lord.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Honestly I believe we can live a sinless life only when we walk in the Spirit. One step out of that and we are in sin no matter how good the deeds , Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
As we abide in the Vine the life of the Vine flows in and through us causing us to grow and bear fruit. His works (not mine) and His righteousness (not mine).
So we agree we are all called to perform the works of God but I simply do not base my salvation on them . My confidence is wholly in the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ so I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Yes,
I think you are talking about "Forensic Justification" or "favor dei". (Favor of God)
I completely agree with that.
There are two views in the Christian faith;
1. Forensic Justification.
2. Sanative Justification.
In forensic, the Justification happens by the power of the Word of God. In other words, it IS so, because God said it is so.
With Sanative Justification, the sinner is healed, and transformed into holyness. Grace transforms the heart of the sinner and makes the sinner Righteous.
You're in good company, Palagian, Augustine, Luther.....
I doubt we will settle this here.
But this distinction in the doctrines of Justification explain why some denominations vary so much in terms of baptism, (immersion, submursion, intinction, aspursion, infant, adult, re-baptism, etc.)the office of the keys, confession and absolution, and their belief of how and when "Faith" takes place.
This is exactly what we were talking about last night at Bible Study . Sin is right there knocking at our door and we have choices every day .... to resist the devil and he will flee from us or give in and fall to sin .
This a no brainer... As :Larry says when we abide in the vine our fruit will be evident .
I assume this was supposed to sarcastic, I for one found it hilarious lolYou're in good company, Palagian, Augustine, Luther.....
I doubt we will settle this here.
I agree with this statement, but if we do step out of the Spirit and sin we need to confess are sin to God, we cannot just continue in unrepentant sin, and think because we were at one point serving God, He will turn a blind eye to our sin.